.22 creedmoor

OKbow87

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I'll break it down for you again. When you start running bullets that weren't designed for the twist rate we designated you can have a few bad things happen. Bullets will come apart and you heat up your chamber 2 and 3x as fast. Hot chambers = pressure spikes or most call it "cooking a loaded round". That will make the accuracy unpredictable since you are already skirting a fine line between the speed and accuracy node. I'm not a fan of running these calibers to their absolute limit. Same with 6.5 saum, it was designed a certain way for certain results. We accomplished that with the 75gr load with mild powder charges and low pressures.


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moore_man

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So far I have tested 69gnSMK, 77grn SMK, 80grn SMK,90grn SMK, 80grn A-Max, 80grn Berger VLD and the 90grn Berger VLD is on it's way after back ordering. Powders tested are H4350, H4831SC, RL-22 and RL-19 for 77grn,80grn and 90grn bullets. RL-15, IMR 4064, varget and H4350 were tested for 69grn and 77grn bullets. I just received the new stock :) it's in the AICS 1.5 now.

DSC_0620.jpgDSC_0623.jpgView attachment DSC_0626.jpg
 

KYS

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We run Hodgdon Hybrid 100v because it was a clean fast burn that yielded the speeds and pressure we wanted. But never hurts to experiment. We also chose a gain twist to allow the projectile to build speed before and pressure signs.


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moore_man

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We run Hodgdon Hybrid 100v because it was a clean fast burn that yielded the speeds and pressure we wanted. But never hurts to experiment. We also chose a gain twist to allow the projectile to build speed before and pressure signs.


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How do you like the gain twist? Does it make much difference? I'm running the 7.7 twist as you've probably read but it was just a test barrel, just got my 7 twist which I will be using for the 90grn Bergers. Do you think the 7 twist would be appropriate? . what kind of grouping were you getting with the heavier or lighter bullets? I saw you said your favorite was the 75grn A-max because of across the board consistency. So far I haven't hit a "magic" load but I haven't tried H100V or 75grn bullets either. Everything holds 1/2-5/8MOA with the once in while 3/8" 3 shot grouping and that's typical for me. Haven't had any bullets come apart yet and I'm still trying to get a one hole 5 shot group :( but it seems to be tricky with
.224 DIA. bullets lol.
 

my human host

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My 22-250 AI's always shot their best with 75 and 80 grain bullets between 3250 and 3300. You might try backing it down a bit. 80's at 3500 are a pretty stiff load out of a Creedmoor sized case. Depending on rate of fire and initial quality, barrel life may be fairly short.
 

KYS

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How do you like the gain twist? Does it make much difference? I'm running the 7.7 twist as you've probably read but it was just a test barrel, just got my 7 twist which I will be using for the 90grn Bergers. Do you think the 7 twist would be appropriate? . what kind of grouping were you getting with the heavier or lighter bullets? I saw you said your favorite was the 75grn A-max because of across the board consistency. So far I haven't hit a "magic" load but I haven't tried H100V or 75grn bullets either. Everything holds 1/2-5/8MOA with the once in while 3/8" 3 shot grouping and that's typical for me. Haven't had any bullets come apart yet and I'm still trying to get a one hole 5 shot group :( but it seems to be tricky with
.224 DIA. bullets lol.

I really like the gain twist barrels. I will run them from here on out on most of my bolt guns. The load I run with the 75's is normally a 1/4" or same hole groupings.


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moore_man

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My 22-250 AI's always shot their best with 75 and 80 grain bullets between 3250 and 3300. You might try backing it down a bit. 80's at 3500 are a pretty stiff load out of a Creedmoor sized case. Depending on rate of fire and initial quality, barrel life may be fairly short.

you may be on to something. I saw my best groupings with lighter loads
 

my human host

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It would be nice if some of the major companies would pick up this round and keep the original intent of the guys who took the time to develope it in mind.

Winchester had the opportunity to introduce a large capacity 22cal built specifically for heavy bullets when they came out with the 223wssm. The round has pretty much faded into nothingness, anyways. They could just as well have tried it. Just not enough interest, I suppose.
 

Forgetful Coyote

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Who has the highest round count on a premium barrel thus far?
Am interested in this round for a bolt gun varmint rifle and a .22/Grendel
variation in an AR15 varmint rifle

As far as that goes, have you seen Mr. Robert Whitley`s .224 AR? Pretty sweet IMO. Definitely could get some stout performance out of it, and have the possibility of feeding long VLDs out the magazine:
224 AR

Hes also got a .22 Beast based on the 6mm Hagar/6.8 SPC.

Theyre both about the same capacity though so Id go for the .224 AR for the ability to mag-feed real long bullets.
 
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moore_man

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As far as that goes, have you seen Mr. Robert Whitley`s .224 AR? Pretty sweet IMO. Definitely could get some stout performance out of it, and have the possibility of feeding long VLDs out the magazine:
224 AR

Hes also got a .22 Beast based on the 6mm Hagar/6.8 SPC.

Theyre both about the same capacity though so Id go for the .224 AR for the ability to mag-feed real long bullets.

Here is the AR barrel I'm finishing up. 20131218_172524.jpg
 

hunter67wa

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Moore-man, KYS, thank you for your replies as I have a lot of questions as a couple of us are going to build a 22 CM. We were thinking a 7 twist barrel for 90g Bergers. Will this barrel shoot the 75's and 80's ok? We are really just interested in the 90's for the BC as we want to push the distance. We are 6.5 whores ( maybe we should have that badge mentioned above) having quite a few and I have recently went to 338 Lapua. But with this hungry case I think I would have more fun with the 22 CM. I like the 338 but I don't see me taking it hunting much. I think there would be a lot of giggling going on when you press the trigger of the 22 CM all the way around.

thanx again fella's and happy new year,

fpd
 

moore_man

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Moore-man, KYS, thank you for your replies as I have a lot of questions as a couple of us are going to build a 22 CM. We were thinking a 7 twist barrel for 90g Bergers. Will this barrel shoot the 75's and 80's ok? We are really just interested in the 90's for the BC as we want to push the distance. We are 6.5 whores ( maybe we should have that badge mentioned above) having quite a few and I have recently went to 338 Lapua. But with this hungry case I think I would have more fun with the 22 CM. I like the 338 but I don't see me taking it hunting much. I think there would be a lot of giggling going on when you press the trigger of the 22 CM all the way around.

thanx again fella's and happy new year,

fpd
sierra states that a 1-6.5 is needed for the 90smk and berger requires a 1-7 for their 90grn VLD bullets. I'll be done with my 1-7 here shortly so i'll be able to give feed back on it.
 

eldiablo

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I am betting the 7.7 will stabilize the 90's. I have 22-6mm Ackley in an 8 twist and it works just fine running about 3350 f/s.
 

KYS

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We were not sure the 90's would stabilize at the speeds we wanted without creating pressure signs early on. I decided against them and went the route of having a 223AI built with a custom chamber. Now I push the 90gr Bergers out of it and it flat hammers out to 1k.
I also utilized the gain twist to shoot a wide variety of bullet weights but after some testing I have decided lower then 62gr is not a good idea! I honestly don't see much of a reason to go above 80gr bullet and still keep a considerable amount of speed and accuracy in the mix.

You all try it out and report back to us. My first gun is approaching its 1st mile marker, 1500 rounds down the pipe and still looks like a fresh barrel. :D
 

hunter67wa

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Thanx KYS. I think one will give up a little speed to get the accuracy but that is always a balance but the high bc of the 90 berger is inviting. Glad to hear about your barrel. We ordered the reamer yesterday and now dies today. 6 ro 8 weeks on the reamer but that will give me a chance to pay off my precision carbine I just bought and work up a load for it.

On another note I'm thinking about putting a can on it. Any suggestions?
 

The_FNG

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The more i read, the more i want. Does PT&G have the reamer print number? Care to share?
 

KYS

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Thanx KYS. I think one will give up a little speed to get the accuracy but that is always a balance but the high bc of the 90 berger is inviting. Glad to hear about your barrel. We ordered the reamer yesterday and now dies today. 6 ro 8 weeks on the reamer but that will give me a chance to pay off my precision carbine I just bought and work up a load for it.

On another note I'm thinking about putting a can on it. Any suggestions?

I just run a 30cal can. Gemtech Sandstorm. Does great with this caliber.
 

moore_man

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We were not sure the 90's would stabilize at the speeds we wanted without creating pressure signs early on. I decided against them and went the route of having a 223AI built with a custom chamber. Now I push the 90gr Bergers out of it and it flat hammers out to 1k.
I also utilized the gain twist to shoot a wide variety of bullet weights but after some testing I have decided lower then 62gr is not a good idea! I honestly don't see much of a reason to go above 80gr bullet and still keep a considerable amount of speed and accuracy in the mix.

You all try it out and report back to us. My first gun is approaching its 1st mile marker, 1500 rounds down the pipe and still looks like a fresh barrel. :D

I have 300 rnds down the tube and it shows some. Nothing to raise an eye brow over but it doesn't look fresh. Now we are running pretty much the same or similar velocities out of our guns if I remember correctly (3450 FPS) happily. Does the combination of your powder and gain twist barrel keep your throat from showing even minor wear? As I think about it how can it make such a drastic difference? if you and I are burning between 37-42grns of powder and the velocities are comparable wouldn't the barrel at least show minor wear from initial explosion at the start of the rifling? If that came off wrong it didn't mean to I'm just trying to wrap my head around this cartridge some more and if your recipe is the ticket I'm gunna have to revise mine lol.
 

moore_man

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I am betting the 7.7 will stabilize the 90's. I have 22-6mm Ackley in an 8 twist and it works just fine running about 3350 f/s.

Some times I wonder if the twists recommended are exact. I've used 1-12 .308 barrels to shoots big bullets and most people said it wouldn't work, my first 6.5 CM on the DPMS platform back when they were just starting to offer it was a 1-7.5, as time went on most people use 1-8/1-8.5 and even 1-9 twist. I wonder if we may see a change as time goes by on the recommended twist for the .22 heavy bullets.
 

KYS

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I have 300 rnds down the tube and it shows some. Nothing to raise an eye brow over but it doesn't look fresh. Now we are running pretty much the same or similar velocities out of our guns if I remember correctly (3450 FPS) happily. Does the combination of your powder and gain twist barrel keep your throat from showing even minor wear? As I think about it how can it make such a drastic difference? if you and I are burning between 37-42grns of powder and the velocities are comparable wouldn't the barrel at least show minor wear from initial explosion at the start of the rifling? If that came off wrong it didn't mean to I'm just trying to wrap my head around this cartridge some more and if your recipe is the ticket I'm gunna have to revise mine lol.


Of course it shows SOME wear. But nothing out of the ordinary of other calibers like 6 Creedmoor. I am just having a lot of luck out of this combo that we are loading. Currently, they are working on development of a 22Creedmoor GAP10. I sent in the barrel and some minor parts already to get the build underway. I think it will be a lethal combo for varmint hunters. I am still impressed by the down range results on smaller animals. I have taken numerous coyotes with it, all dropped at the point of the shot.

Like I said, a lot of thought and care went into designing this. What started out as a joke has really tuned into one of the most versatile cartridges on the planet. Inexpensive bullets, easy to find brass, easy to load for, and usually the powder is plentiful. The Hodgdon Hybrid powder can also be used in 6mm Creedmoor if you want. George has mentioned that it works well for him. I have loaded some up but not had the time to shoot it.
 

moore_man

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Of course it shows SOME wear. But nothing out of the ordinary of other calibers like 6 Creedmoor. I am just having a lot of luck out of this combo that we are loading. Currently, they are working on development of a 22Creedmoor GAP10. I sent in the barrel and some minor parts already to get the build underway. I think it will be a lethal combo for varmint hunters. I am still impressed by the down range results on smaller animals. I have taken numerous coyotes with it, all dropped at the point of the shot.

Like I said, a lot of thought and care went into designing this. What started out as a joke has really tuned into one of the most versatile cartridges on the planet. Inexpensive bullets, easy to find brass, easy to load for, and usually the powder is plentiful. The Hodgdon Hybrid powder can also be used in 6mm Creedmoor if you want. George has mentioned that it works well for him. I have loaded some up but not had the time to shoot it.

Oh ok. Good to know we are in the same boat. I too am currently working on an AR10. So far so good. It's gunna be a slayer lol. I haven't had time to go calling but I cant wait to see the damage it does. Did you guys have any trouble in determining gas port size and gas tube length?
 

KYS

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Oh ok. Good to know we are in the same boat. I too am currently working on an AR10. So far so good. It's gunna be a slayer lol. I haven't had time to go calling but I cant wait to see the damage it does. Did you guys have any trouble in determining gas port size and gas tube length?

Tube length is the same as all the other GAP10's. Rifle
I don't know what size port they will drill, that is up to Josh @ GAP. He will tune it to run my ammo. I will not be running a suppressor on the semi auto rig. It's just to much back pressure to deal with and I want it to run properly, with no hindrance.
 

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This might have been answered already, but, can you fire .22-250 ammo through the .22 creedmoor chamber?
 

KYS

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for 100 yards groups I would go back to the bench and rethink my loads. They appear to be opening up.


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moore_man

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I have made some modifications to the rifle. I recently trued the action and bolt, now i'm setting back the barrel a smudge and timing run out. We may see a difference in how it shoots with the same previously used 80 and 90 grain bullet loads.
 

hunter67wa

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Alright fellas I got my reamer. Now what twist rate on a barrel? Wanting to shoot 90 Berger but it sounds like the 80 is better. Would a 1 in 8 be better than a 1 in 7? Im looking at a Douglas Air gage any thoughts on barrels?

fpd
 

moore_man

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tell me about your 3 jaw chuck? Is it a set true? Ive never seen anyone barrel in a standard 3 jaw, dies also. Lee

its just a good running 3 jaw. I use a couple tricks to help keep parts running inside of .001, usually at .0007. A reading is always taken to see how things are running internally. For the dies its a 100% completed outside with a reamed center. I use a PTG floating reamer holder which is a true floating holder. The reamer only has one place to go and that's where the hole leads it. As for barrels. What I have done recently for myself is I establish my barrel threads and lengths between centers like traditional smithing but then i take a finish pass over the cylnder of the barrel as well. I use a outboard spider to support the muzzle end, use a live center to hold barrel on the chamber end and make minor tweaks to the chuck to get the bore inside of .001 Now i cut my C.B and send the reamer to headspace. again this is something i do for myself personally and it does work.
 

hunter67wa

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Have you guys shot to 1000y yet? What have you found to be a good powder and load for the 75 Amax?
 

hunter67wa

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KYS; Thank you. I will start looking for some. What kind of results are you getting at 1000y? Group size and wind say 10mph full value. I assume this is 75 Amax. Velocity are you still at 3450?
 

KYS

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Good results at 1000y. I had a 3 shot group about the size of a softball last time I took it out that far. I am running the 75gr AMAX. still holding around 3450 fps.


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hunter67wa

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Thanx KYS. We have one rifle up and running. Savage action Douglas barrel 25" No. 4, 1 in 8. So far we cannot find any 75 Amax. The rifle likes 77gr Nosler CC it shoots them 1/4 minute at 200y. We are running Norma 204 powder at 3440fps. The other rifle will be a No 3 contour in a Savage action with Accu-stock. Been fun so far and hope to take it to Montana this year on a Muledeer hunt.
 

moore_man

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moore_man how are they shooting for you?

better than 1/2MOA. The last two outings I had very good groupings at both 100yrds and 500yrds. I'm currently running this second rifle with a 7 twist. It handles the 90's way better at higher velocities than my 7.7 twist.
 

Twitchy

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Have you built the 22 creed moor yet? I just called PTG to look at their print and I think the reamer freebore is too short for what I plan on doing. I'd love to build this specifically for the new 95g SMK, but it seems that will be a first. Most I've seen with this top out with 80s and a few running 90s, but finding current info is nearly impossible.