They aren't in there that deep. I'll try to get a pic tonight.
There's still a lot of room in the case for more powder. You won't have any issues using coated DTACs.
- Thread starter Krob95
- Start date
They aren't in there that deep. I'll try to get a pic tonight.
There's still a lot of room in the case for more powder. You won't have any issues using coated DTACs.
For those using virgin GAP brass and 88 ELDMs. I sized down the neck and then ran a carbide turning mandrel though the neck. I'm getting marks/indentations on the bullets when I seat them with my Forster micrometer die. I'm wondering if the necks are too hard from the additional sizing procedures and causing the issue or if these bullets are really soft in the nose where the seater touches? The bullets don't seem to seat any harder than other bullets. 
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When I sized down the GAP brass I got great e.s. and s.d. numbers, but couldn't get anything to group worth a dam. I too came to the conclusion that the necks had become too hard and that they should probably be annealed. Switching to Alpha brass solved my problems.
I will anneal once I get all my brass fired once. My numbers aren’t horrible, but groups are just okay. I honestly think that once I anneal the brass neck tension will be more consistent and groups will shrink.
I normally run Alpha brass, but since I have seen so many burn out 22GT barrels quickly I really didn’t want to spend the money on Alpha this time.
Been working with StaBALL 6.5 and 90 SMK. SD’s are in the mid-high 20’s with charges in the low-mid 37gn range. I upped the charge to 37.8-38gn and noticed a huge improvement in the numbers. 38gn averaged 3107 fps with an SD of 14. There were zero signs of pressure. I’m not going any higher but has anyone noticed an improvement on higher StaBALL 6.5 charges?
The 90 SMK were 20 thou off.
Edited to add that I shoot suppressed. As of this post my barrel has right under 300 rounds. The attached picture is cleaning after 81 rounds of suppressed. 5 wet patches and 5 dry. StaBALL 6.5 is dirty but a different kind of dirty. The carbon is soft and easy to clean.
The 90 SMK were 20 thou off.
Edited to add that I shoot suppressed. As of this post my barrel has right under 300 rounds. The attached picture is cleaning after 81 rounds of suppressed. 5 wet patches and 5 dry. StaBALL 6.5 is dirty but a different kind of dirty. The carbon is soft and easy to clean.
Attachments
I’ve read over and over again that StaBall needs to be on the upper end to give good ES/SD.
Started barrel break-in on Mon with 88 ELDM's seated 30 thou off, finding pressure limits with Staball6.5.
Started at 34gr and went up to 38gr in 1gr increments (5 @ each). Found a sticky bolt at 38 (didn't shoot all 5).
Cleaned after each batch of 5 and noticed the same as @021411 , it was dirty but cleaned easily.
None of the groups were under an inch (100yds) and I'd probably wager they all were over 1.5in. Didn't bother measuring since nothing was even promising.
Didn't bother chrono'ing since most people say not to worry about load development during barrel break-in. Does that sentiment extend to component elimination as well? Obviously I haven't tried different seating depths and I realize 1gr increments is a lot, but I'm tempted to scrap the 88 ELDM/Staball6.5 combo altogether.
I think I've seen too many of the alleged/amazing "First/Second/Third group from my new barrel!" pics that it was a bit disappointing.
"STFU and break in your barrel, it's too early to tell anything"? Or ditch the bullet/powder combo already?
Thanks guys
Bryan
Started at 34gr and went up to 38gr in 1gr increments (5 @ each). Found a sticky bolt at 38 (didn't shoot all 5).
Cleaned after each batch of 5 and noticed the same as @021411 , it was dirty but cleaned easily.
None of the groups were under an inch (100yds) and I'd probably wager they all were over 1.5in. Didn't bother measuring since nothing was even promising.
Didn't bother chrono'ing since most people say not to worry about load development during barrel break-in. Does that sentiment extend to component elimination as well? Obviously I haven't tried different seating depths and I realize 1gr increments is a lot, but I'm tempted to scrap the 88 ELDM/Staball6.5 combo altogether.
I think I've seen too many of the alleged/amazing "First/Second/Third group from my new barrel!" pics that it was a bit disappointing.
"STFU and break in your barrel, it's too early to tell anything"? Or ditch the bullet/powder combo already?
Thanks guys
Bryan
Seat them 88s around 20 or 55 off. I've found the 88s, 109s, 140s all like these jumps. Velocity nodes for the 22gt with the 90s is 3000-3030 & 3090-3120. Stabal doesn't really stabilize until you get the pressure up.
My fire form/barrel break in loads. Virgin Alpha brass .222 mandrel, 37.5 gr 6.5 Staball, 88 eldm -.023 jump 2.546/1.980, old Wolf SR magnum primers. 3040 was speed with very few rounds on the 24" barrel. For the hell of it I shot a 20 round group of these at 100 early march at around 40 degrees. It was hang firing, but still put all 20 into just over an inch.
Shot the last 20 of these last weekend in 80 degree temps and no hang fires. Didn't have magneto on it but it was 2.8 mil @600
Now that barrel should be sped up & I have 200 cases I'm going to see how it does with RL 15.5 & a few different primers.
Thanks guys, kinda sounds like they'll shoot from the get-go if they're going to at all. I'll try seating them further out and try some smaller increments between 36.5-37.5
If that doesn't work, on to my stash of H4350. Really hope the 88's work simply due to the lower cost. "Babe, a new caliber makes total sense, look how much less the bullets are!"
If that doesn't work, on to my stash of H4350. Really hope the 88's work simply due to the lower cost. "Babe, a new caliber makes total sense, look how much less the bullets are!"
With lower 37gn charge weights I would get occasional hang fires. Once I upped the charge the hang fires went away.
I hit the range this morning to confirm my findings from the previous session. My barrel likes 38gn of StaBALL 6.5 and the 90 SMK. I loaded some with a 10 thou jump and they were shooting really nice. The MV averaged 3103 with SD of 9. ES was 24.
I have a 1/7 22” Preferred Barrel Blanks barrel chambered by Fisher T&C with an Omega 30.
I hit the range this morning to confirm my findings from the previous session. My barrel likes 38gn of StaBALL 6.5 and the 90 SMK. I loaded some with a 10 thou jump and they were shooting really nice. The MV averaged 3103 with SD of 9. ES was 24.
I have a 1/7 22” Preferred Barrel Blanks barrel chambered by Fisher T&C with an Omega 30.
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That's fast for a 22"! I may need to experiment with slower powders. My 36.0gr H4350 load at 3120 from a 26" barrel shows psi at times.
Only testing will tell, but I think it’s going to be too fast of powder. Have you ran it through GRT or Quick Load?
@browning442 is running 15.5 with great success in his 22" barrel, fast with 85.5 Bergers.
Yes - running 85.5s around 3240-3250 in a 22” barrel, RL15.5. No pressure at 80 degrees today. Shilen 7.5 twist
I want to give it a try cause it out performed expectations in my 6.5 Creedmoore with 130's.
For the 22 GT with 15.5, I'm not planning to test any projectiles over the 85.5 Bergers. For 77 - 85.5's it should be pretty good as per @browning442 results.
RL 15.5 is a little odd, in that it reaches peak pressure slowly & yet burns out fast. The model below with 77RDF's doesn't reach peak until almost 4" bullet travel.
Not sure if it'll be any better than H4350, RL 16, or N555 in the 22GT? Based on my experience with it so far in the Creedmoor it is the ideal powder for short barrels if you want complete burn along with good speed & medium weight class projectiles.
Since you are running lighter bullets that should help. Are these estimated or actual values from GRT?
That’s GRT’s estimate. I built the case and those 2 bullets in the model. Won’t know for sure till I shoot it and true the powder model.
For 6.5 C the GRT estimate was within 20fps using Their RL5.5 model.
I’ve only ever had one from scratch initial estimated close in GRT. After the first firing and I can input accurate case volume, powder temp, FPS and such, it’s damn close.
Most of the time my initial estimate about 70-100 fps faster than what I actually get. Once I have that and use the OBT function and it adjusts the powder parameters it’s off to the races.
Keep us informed, I’d love to know how it goes.
Most of the time my initial estimate about 70-100 fps faster than what I actually get. Once I have that and use the OBT function and it adjusts the powder parameters it’s off to the races.
Keep us informed, I’d love to know how it goes.
Finally got the StaBALL 6.5 out into the heat to see how stable it is.
The previous session was 82 degF and resulted an avg MV of 3103. Yesterday was 95 degF. The ammo was pretty warm even sitting in the shade. I saw an avg MV of 3134. The SD actually dropped a little to 7 from the previous 9. Still no pressure signs.
The previous session was 82 degF and resulted an avg MV of 3103. Yesterday was 95 degF. The ammo was pretty warm even sitting in the shade. I saw an avg MV of 3134. The SD actually dropped a little to 7 from the previous 9. Still no pressure signs.
Well what do you know. 90 SMK at 1.979” CBTO which is a 20 thou jump for me fits in the MDT Dasher/BR mag. The tip of the bullet is about 2 cunt hairs or so away from the binder plate. Going to give it a whirl and see how they work out tonight. With that said I have absolutely zero issues with the MDT Poly Metal mags. They work 100%.
Do you have the short 120fb or longer 170fb reamer?
A quick update. After loading more rounds I noticed my seating pressure was in fact considerably higher seating these bullets and not consistent on the press handle. I annealed with the code of my sacrificial brass and still was deforming bullets and very inconsistent seating depths.
I went with my gut feeling that the necks were too hard and not annealed properly. After playing around with annealer settings I have come up with a good setting that allows me to seat bullets consistently, without bullet deformation and consistent handle pressure.
I chased my tail for a bit, but I believe I’m on the right track now.
Cramming to find a load for a local match on Sun. Went out this morning with 31.5 - 33.8gr of H4350 with 90gr SMK's seated .020 off.
24in barrel only getting 2930fps with 33.8gr. Only 75rds down the pipe so far... Was my MagnetoSpeed sensitivity off or is that just standard prior to getting the round count up (and barrel sped up)?
I increased the sensitivity until the rounds started registering consistently, up to Setting 5.
Don't have time for another range trip before the match so Im stuck with the data I have for now...
Thanks
Bryan
24in barrel only getting 2930fps with 33.8gr. Only 75rds down the pipe so far... Was my MagnetoSpeed sensitivity off or is that just standard prior to getting the round count up (and barrel sped up)?
I increased the sensitivity until the rounds started registering consistently, up to Setting 5.
Don't have time for another range trip before the match so Im stuck with the data I have for now...
Thanks
Bryan
Soft load. You need to push 36 to 38 grains to get speed.
Fair enough... Must've mis-remembered seeing higher speeds approaching 34gr
Thanks
My 22br runs the 90smk at 2910 with 28.3gr varget, and is a light load. In the gt, I was at 36.3gr h4350 with 90atips jumping 25k, going right at 3100.Fair enough... Must've mis-remembered seeing higher speeds approaching 34gr
Thanks
We'll see how it goes with my BR clone tomorrow lol. Also kicking myself for grabbing a 24in barrel instead of waiting for a 26in. Only shooting steel out to 550yds tomorrow though so it should do just fine.
Much appreciated
Bryan
I started over this week with fresh components and I’m liking what I see so far. Alpha 22GT brass, Berger 85.5, H4350, CCI 450..
50 thou jump and 35.7gn H4350 is doing 3029 fps and I’m stacking rounds. I could play with seating depth but it’s shooting good.
I’ve gone as high as 36.4gn (3094 fps) with no pressure signs. Temp was 99 degF.
50 thou jump and 35.7gn H4350 is doing 3029 fps and I’m stacking rounds. I could play with seating depth but it’s shooting good.
I’ve gone as high as 36.4gn (3094 fps) with no pressure signs. Temp was 99 degF.
38 grains of triple nickel under a 90smk. Going ~3060 20” barrel 10 rounds
Yup. I am going to try some RL16 too. But the N555 can push the 90s well past 3200.
I run rl16 for quite awhile then Switched to n555. I use it with 85.5 Berger’s and 75eldms
Is RL16 close to N555 in the GT?
Just a touch faster burning. I was running 39gr with a 75 eldm and it was on the hot side of things. I used 40gr of n555 with a max full case and no pressure with those two loads it shot nearly the exact same velocity
I compared the Hornady 88 ELDM to the Berger 85.5 Hybrid the other day, powder was H4350. Preliminary data shows the 85.5 is much more consistent. Previous best charge with the 88 ELDM was 35.0gr. With the 85.5, charge of 34.2 and 35.0 shot tight little .3” groups, and the other charges of 34.4, 34.6 and 34.8 were all acceptable. Same .030” off the lands, same CCI 450 primer.
More testing to follow, but the Bergers will be my match bullet and the Hornadys will be my practice bullet.
More testing to follow, but the Bergers will be my match bullet and the Hornadys will be my practice bullet.
My experience is nearly the exact same. Hornady shot well, Bergers ran much better especially at distance.
I only tested H4831sc with 95smk's so far..
Just ordered a 7 twist for a TL3 with the .169 freebore. Planning on shooting 80.5 berger with H4350. Any real world results with that combo? Seems most are running 85-90 grain bullets here. Have a 22 creed that loves the 80.5 and 4350 was hoping to go 22 gt for a bit more barrel life and close to same performanc??
Curious as well. I have tons of the 80.5
I never shot the 80s in my 22GT but I shot a bunch of 80smk and 80 VLD in my 22BR out of a Mullerworks 1-7 and they were stupid accurate. Lights out
80smk
29.5gr H4895
3150
SD6
They were jumping a mile too
One hole @ 100yd and 0.178moa @ 400yd
80smk
29.5gr H4895
3150
SD6
They were jumping a mile too
One hole @ 100yd and 0.178moa @ 400yd
80 SMK is a great bullet. Was my favourite one in my 223 DTA. Extremely consistent but didn’t have the B.C. of the eld-m.
After having had my 22GT replaced due to the ARC CDG clearance issue, I finally found time to do some load development. Up to this point, I have been shooting 35.0gr H4350 w/ 85.5s with a total of 133 rounds on the barrel. The load was pretty inconsistent but fairly precise and accurate. Decided to move to a higher charge, ultimately higher fill %, albeit higher than I ever intended to go with this cartridge.
All I have to say is that I found money at and above 36.0. Low sample size but the barrel has been consistent at 35.0, I am confident these 36s will be consistent too. I shot two four-shot groups for each charge and the results repeated.
All I have to say is that I found money at and above 36.0. Low sample size but the barrel has been consistent at 35.0, I am confident these 36s will be consistent too. I shot two four-shot groups for each charge and the results repeated.
Anyone tried RL19? My initial H4350 loads have been pretty uninspiring accuracy-wise, and I have tubs of 19 sitting around without use. GRT shows it being a relatively low pressure 3k fps load with 88s.
I run N555 in mine. They are close on burn rate chart. One way to find out. I would load in .5 grain increments from 36 until the case is full. See what speeds you can get and if you hit pressure. I was running 90 SMK with 37ish grains at 3175.
Anyone running 80eldm? I'm going to use them for hunting this year. I have the 120fb chamber so 88s and 90s are dang near at base of neck touching the lands. I plan to use N555 or H4350 with them. I received the barrel a few days prior to headed to work, so need to do break in.
I didnt do any 80gr testing in 22GT but I did test 80's in my 22BR and they were stupid accurate. I tested 80smk and 80 VLD with H4895
29.5gr H4895
3152
SD 5
28" Mullerworks 1-7
400yd
