8.6 Blk reloading info

[DacianMH]

New to this group and love all the information. Took me all day to get through 12 pages of great info. I am seeing lots of info on gas guns and just a little bit on bolt guns, especially shorter ones like my 12.5". I have built a list of load recipes based off all 12 pages in this thread and that has provided me with what I feel like is a good starting point for next steps. To date I have only shot Gorilla and then attempted to shoot Firehole Arms (I'll explain that later). The Gorilla performs great out of my rifle true MOA or better. Little bit about the gun and my experience

Project Gun: Savage model 10 youth 7-08 (my sons old rifle he grew out of). Mos-Tek 12.5" Savage Prefit Nut with 5/8x24 threading and an 11-degree crown. I have it sitting in an MDT LSS Chasis with an Arken EPL4 4-16 on it for now.

Experiences with different factory ammo:
Gorilla ammo has been great:
I started with the 300 SMK subs and I am getting 978fps with single digit SDs and very tight groups at 100
For hunting, I am using Gorilla 285 Fracturing subs. I am averaging 986fps and able to shoot just shy of 1 moa SDs were not as good as the SMK but for hunting out to 200 yards it does not matter.
Firehole Amrs:
I started with their 300 grain solid copper subs for barrels shorter than 16". 1st shot had significantly more recoil and was much louder than the 300 grain Gorilla. pulling the bolt back was tough and the primer popped a little and the base was flattened. I did not shoot those again that day
Next I shot the 338 grain fracturing and pretty much similar results only the primer completely fell out and unburnt powder was everywhere. did not shoot again that day

Took the rifle home and reverified the headspace with go no go gauges. Everything seemed fine but I went ahead and pulled the ejection pen/spring and extractor and checked head space again and still everything was in spec.

Back to the range with my Mangeto Speed v3. Both of the Firehole ammos were over 1150 fps and I had the exact same issue 1 flattened primer and one blown primer. I had to use a cleaning rod and block of wood to tap the spent fracturing round case out.

I ordered a Sheridan Case gauge and you can see from the picture that the Firehole ammo does not even come close to fitting.

Ok on to my questions:
1. I am loading Maker Rex 350 expanding in new Gorilla brass with federal LRP and h110. I am starting at 15.1 grains and going to 16.3. Does the collective think this is a good start for a bolt 12.5" gun?
2. I only have a little bit of H110 and A1680 but lots of CFE BLK. Does anyone have a good sub or super recipe to start with for CFE BLKView attachment 8119445View attachment 8119444View attachment 8119446View attachment 8119447View attachment 8119448?

Where i settled for H110 with 350gr Makers is around 16.2gr to 16.4gr but be careful to work up because the makers start to expand in the barrel if pushed passed 1060 fps in a 1:3 twist.

Also, i am a licensed manufacturer and offer 8.6 Blk ammo for sale. All my ammo passes the Sheridan gauge unlike FA’s.

 

[dnchrist]

Where i settled for H110 with 350gr Makers is around 16.2gr to 16.4gr but be careful to work up because the makers start to expand in the barrel if pushed passed 1060 fps in a 1:3 twist.

Also, i am a licensed manufacturer and offer 8.6 Blk ammo for sale. All my ammo passes the Sheridan gauge unlike FA’s.

What is in the 2nd photo? It looks like the Elite ammo I shot in the 5.7X28. One shot, 2 holes. It was SUPPOSED to come apart when it hit the target, not before...

 

[DacianMH]

What is in the 2nd photo? It looks like the Elite ammo I shot in the 5.7X28. One shot, 2 holes. It was SUPPOSED to come apart when it hit the target, not before...

View attachment 8121199

Correct

 

[DacianMH]

My Son chewed me out because he said I must have loaded them wrong!

No, I don’t think you loaded incorrectly…these are unusually soft bullets and with the ultra fast twist, i think the bullets are being spun so fast that they're expanding in the barrel which causes them to open up as they leave the barrel potentially destroying a suppressor. The 1:6.5 doesn't have this problem but everyone is primarily shooting in the 1:3 twist so i have to make ammo thats tailored to that twist rate first. Ive been lucky and haven’t had any customers complain but i know it’s happening.

 

[txhunter74]

WELCOME ABOARD!

Sounds like Firehole Arms made their ammo straight off the Q/Faxon recommended load list, which I found to be waay too hot. They might also be in the market for a Sheridan gauge! I don't think I'd shoot any more of it, maybe salvage the cases after running them through a proper die.

I wouldn't recommend for anyone else, but I found that around 32gr of TAC or CFE 223 in a 16 inch gun for 185gr CX or GMX supers seems to work pretty well. If you try ANY of this, MAKE SURE YOU START LOWER AND SAFER!

For subs, I used CFE Blk at around 17gr for SMK 300gr at 1088 fps. BEEEEE CAREFUL!

Started working on a load for the Maker Rex 350. I landed on 15.9 grains of H110 with an average 5 shoot group at 1041. I am now playing with seating depth. At the recommended 2.810 depth I was not getting a good grouping. I dropped it down .003” and it got me closer to MOA. I am going to do 2 more tests at 2.804 and 2.801.

 

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Any one tried 300 grain Lapua Scenars? I am having a barrel built by Mostek and accumulating ammo component. Saw they were available and cheaper than SMKs for plinking. Not sure if they can handle the 1/3 twist.

Is there a favorite powder for a 16in 1/3 twist bolt action? Plan on mostly using 300 grains. Although it sounds like I should check out the 350 makers


so far I have:

100x 285grain Gorilla bullets
100x 300 grain Maker bullets
100x Gorilla 8.6 brass
200x 6.5 creed hornady brass
8.6 blk Hornady dies

Powder on hand
Lil Gun
h110
imr4227
Varget

on order:
16in Mostek barrel
Ugly annealer

Using a Terminus Zeus Quickchange action with MPA ultralight chassis.

Debating on suppressor but have a Deadair Wolfman for now.

 

[GregP42]

I just tried a load of 17gr CFEBlk with the 285gr ELDM, it was running 1190 out of my 16" rifle. I had only loaded a few to test, will drop it down to 16.5 and 16.2 for next test, only doing 5 of each for the tests.

I also have H110, and Little Gun, but haven't tried them yet.

 

[MSBRPT]

Did I miss the part where Q gave a reason (with numbers) as to why they picked that twist rate over a normal one? I must have slept through it. So far the only benefits I have seen is it will destroy certain projectiles...

The 1/3 twist is supposed to allow for consistent expansion of subsonic hunting bullets. IIRC the bullet is immediately stable when shot through the doppler and gaining a higher BC. I personally saw the bullet outperforming what AB data suggested out to 400m with consistent 7 mph winds. Wind and elevation holds were way lower than anticipated.

 

[Huckleberry75]

The 1/3 twist is supposed to allow for consistent expansion of subsonic hunting bullets. IIRC the bullet is immediately stable when shot through the doppler and gaining a higher BC. I personally saw the bullet outperforming what AB data suggested out to 400m with consistent 7 mph winds. Wind and elevation holds were way lower than anticipated.

And adds Rotational kinetic energy to the target at impact as well.

 

[SkyScrapin]

I just tried a load of 17gr CFEBlk with the 285gr ELDM, it was running 1190 out of my 16" rifle. I had only loaded a few to test, will drop it down to 16.5 and 16.2 for next test, only doing 5 of each for the tests.

I also have H110, and Little Gun, but haven't tried them yet.

Any idea what the case fill rate is on your data? Estimate with the eye is cool too.

 

[GregP42]

Any idea what the case fill rate is on your data? Estimate with the eye is cool too.

It was approximately 45-50% on the unfired gorilla brass. They ended up at 1190fps in my 16" AR10, so I need to drop the charge some more. I have Lil'gun, H110 and Trail Boss if anyone has data for them?

Greg

 

[MSBRPT]

Has anyone had success converting small rifle primer brass to subsonic or supersonic 8.6?

 

[Huckleberry75]

Following for H110, Lil Gun info too

 

[DacianMH]

Has anyone had success converting small rifle primer brass to subsonic or supersonic 8.6?

Yes…works fine. I’ve converted FC SRP 6.5 Creedmoor and 6mm Creedmoor just fine.

 

[SkyScrapin]

It was approximately 45-50% on the unfired gorilla brass. They ended up at 1190fps in my 16" AR10, so I need to drop the charge some more. I have Lil'gun, H110 and Trail Boss if anyone has data for them?

Greg

Can only speak to Trail Boss. Great for bolt actions. I'm not sure it will cycle your AR-10, but giver her a go.

With my bolt action project, I'm hoping for Trail Boss to show up sometime soon, otherwise it'll be CFEBLK for me. Waiting patiently.

 

[DacianMH]

Can only speak to Trail Boss. Great for bolt actions. I'm not sure it will cycle your AR-10, but giver her a go.

With my bolt action project, I'm hoping for Trail Boss to show up sometime soon, otherwise it'll be CFEBLK for me. Waiting patiently.

Unfortunately…it doesn’t work in a gas gun

 

[GregP42]

Can only speak to Trail Boss. Great for bolt actions. I'm not sure it will cycle your AR-10, but giver her a go.

With my bolt action project, I'm hoping for Trail Boss to show up sometime soon, otherwise it'll be CFEBLK for me. Waiting patiently.

I just finished my bolt gun today, would you care to share your trailboss loads?

Greg

 

[SkyScrapin]

I just finished my bolt gun today, would you care to share your trailboss loads?

Greg

Greg, don't have my barrel yet. Waiting on the good folks at Bartlein.

 

[GregP42]

Greg, don't have my barrel yet. Waiting on the good folks at Bartlein.

I have been pondering and not sure how much to try, figure to the base of the bullet, weigh that then do 80% of it to see. I don't have the trail boss powder in GRT, but if anyone has Quickloads and could run trail boss and the 285gr ELD-M it would be great.

Greg

 

[db2000]

Travis at Plinkcheaper is above and beyond for brass. No affiliation, just a great experience and wanted to share.

 

[DacianMH]

I have been pondering and not sure how much to try, figure to the base of the bullet, weigh that then do 80% of it to see. I don't have the trail boss powder in GRT, but if anyone has Quickloads and could run trail boss and the 285gr ELD-M it would be great.

Greg

Trailboss has been discontinued but VV-N32c is availible and meters better with the same results. VV-N32c behind a 300gr SMK fills the case at 14gr if you seat to 2.780” which is what Gorilla seats the 300gr SMK’s at and have shot best at that OAL. Hope this helps.

 

[GregP42]

Trailboss has been discontinued but VV-N32c is availible and meters better with the same results. VV-N32c behind a 300gr SMK fills the case at 14gr if you seat to 2.780” which is what Gorilla seats the 300gr SMK’s at and have shot best at that OAL. Hope this helps.

I still have 4 pounds of trail boss, don't do the cowboy stuff anymore so there it is looking at me. VV is hard to find in my area, I would have to order it and with hazmat fees it just isn't worth it for me right now. But thank you for the data, I will save it in case we ever do get it around here.

Greg

 

[DacianMH]

I still have 4 pounds of trail boss, don't do the cowboy stuff anymore so there it is looking at me. VV is hard to find in my area, I would have to order it and with hazmat fees it just isn't worth it for me right now. But thank you for the data, I will save it in case we ever do get it around here.

Greg

4 lbs of the 9oz cans? If i recall the 1 lbs containers are actually 9oz cans but anyways the VV-N32c are large round balls.

 

[GregP42]

4 lbs of the 9oz cans? If i recall the 1 lbs containers are actually 9oz cans but anyways the VV-N32c are large round balls.

The jugs were 4 pounds, I still have one of those left.

Greg

 

[GregP42]

Well I got the jug down off the shelf, it is actually 5 pounds. I loaded up 5 rounds with 8gr with the 285gr ELD-M, I will be off Sunday and if the weather is good I will shoot them from the bolt gun I just finished and will report back.

Greg

 

[DacianMH]

Well I got the jug down off the shelf, it is actually 5 pounds. I loaded up 5 rounds with 8gr with the 285gr ELD-M, I will be off Sunday and if the weather is good I will shoot them from the bolt gun I just finished and will report back.

Greg

it’ll be great to see what results you get.

 

[GregP42]

it’ll be great to see what results you get.

I don't think 8gr of trailboss is enough!

 

[DacianMH]

I don't think 8gr of trailboss is enough!

Ha nice!

 

[GregP42]

Question, I am looking at cast bullets for the bolt action, do you think a hollow point would hold up or just go for a solid? This is a drawing of the bullet I am looking at.
Greg

 

[DacianMH]

Question, I am looking at cast bullets for the bolt action, do you think a hollow point would hold up or just go for a solid? This is a drawing of the bullet I am looking at.
Greg

Ive actually tried the NOE 315gr without the nose cavity and it all depends on your lead/alloy mixture. You can have a really hard BHN22 hollow point that doesnt expand and you can have a really soft BHN10 solid that will mushroom like plado thrown against a wall. You want to be slightly soft for subs so they can expand at subsonic velocities if I’m assuming correct about your intended use…maybe 14-16. I’m still playing with lead cast bullets for a cheaper alternative to copper bullets but they don’t shoot as well yet for me.

 

[GregP42]

Ive actually tried the NOE 315gr without the nose cavity and it all depends on your lead/alloy mixture. You can have a really hard BHN22 hollow point that doesnt expand and you can have a really soft BHN10 solid that will mushroom like plado thrown against a wall. You want to be slightly soft for subs so they can expand at subsonic velocities if I’m assuming correct about your intended use…maybe 14-16. I’m still playing with lead cast bullets for a cheaper alternative to copper bullets but they don’t shoot as well yet for me.

Yes I am looking at water quenched WW, then powder coated and that should draw it back to about 16bnh after the coating. I shoot cast in quite a few guns, I am just thinking about the 1-3 twist making the HP start to open in the barrel. I can get the mold with pins to make it a solid point if needed. I just wonder if it will spin open, or if I will have to go even harder to keep it from doing that, which them makes the HP not worth using since it would be too hard to open, just fracture. I have till tomorrow before the discount expires that I can use.

As for yours not shooting well, what are you sizing the base to? .339 would be what I would do so it is slightly over barrel diameter. I don't know if your expanding the case mouth or not, but be sure to do that so it doesn't scrape off any of your coating when seating.

Greg

 

[GregP42]

Doing all those except swaging the bullet to .339 because the NOE Mold i have casts them to .339 to begin with…unless maybe the cast isn’t consistent. I may be too critical with the accuracy because i haven’t settled on a seating depth just yet. Also accuracy is roughly 2-3 moa at 50y. HTC339-315-FN-BZ1-61

I’ll play with it some more and revisit the casting sessions to see if maybe i can improve it. Maybe I’ll try VV N32c, IMR4227, and some others in that general burn rate.

Please check out this link in reference to air cooled vs water cooled lead cast bullets.

Have you seen this one, and from doing it myself on 6.5mm to 50bmg cast it seems to hold true, not as much on the 50 as there is just too much mass to change in the final cooking.

 

[GregP42]

Well I went back out today with 5 loaded up with 9.5gr of trail boss, that is to the base of the bullet, and you don't want to compress trail boss or it gets really spiky as to pressure. Yea, 600fps isn't going to do it lol, unless someone is going to make a fracturing bullet that will open up at that speed.

Greg

 

[Bubsss]

Hi, I'm new here. Any reason these wouldn't work for a supersonic load from an 8 in 1/3 twist barrel? They're a little heavier than most suppers and I'm unfamiliar with solid brass compared to copper so I wanted to check with others before getting some.

 

[MSBRPT]

Discounting one flyer. With it the group would be 1.12 MOA.

 

[GregP42]

View attachment 8147856View attachment 8147857
Discounting one flyer. With it the group would be 1.12 MOA.

What bullet and load were you using? Is that a 100 yard group?

Greg

 

[MSBRPT]

What bullet and load were you using? Is that a 100 yard group?

Greg

100 yards, 300 grain Lapua Scenars with 13.3 grains of Lil Gun. COAL 2.800.

 

[Adam M]

Some load data for supers in the 8.6 blk. I see a lot of people saying the twist is all marketing hype and it does suck that bullet selection is so slim but I've never seen a mono bullet expand this much at this velocity (whatever that may be 100 yds out). The coolest and most compelling thing by far is the screw shape created by the twist while expanding

 

[towerofpower93]

Some load data for supers in the 8.6 blk. I see a lot of people saying the twist is all marketing hype and it does suck that bullet selection is so slim but I've never seen a mono bullet expand this much at this velocity (whatever that may be 100 yds out). The coolest and most compelling thing by far is the screw shape created by the twist while expanding
View attachment 8149355View attachment 8149356

What medium were those shot into? Also, what's your barrel length? Bolt or AR? I'm intrigued by 8.6BO...

 

[Adam M]

What medium were those shot into? Also, what's your barrel length? Bolt or AR? I'm intrigued by 8.6BO...

So I set lmt target up on a thin sheet of plywood and recovered the bullets from a dirt mound. Switched to a 16 in barrel because I refuse to register a pistol (this is an AR).

 

[db2000]

So I set lmt target up on a thin sheet of plywood and recovered the bullets from a dirt mound. Switched to a 16 in barrel because I refuse to register a pistol (this is an AR).

That’s awful. The whole point of the round is short barrel subs with bonus of super. Why not just use a brace as a pistol?

 

[Adam M]

That’s awful. The whole point of the round is short barrel subs with bonus of super. Why not just use a brace as a pistol?

Because the ATF no longer recognizes a braced pistol as a pistol. They want it registered as an SBR. I still have the 12" barrel for if the courts shut down this brace ruling and a suppressor is awaiting approval. No purpose in shooting subs if I don't have the can yet

 

[MSBRPT]

Forgot to arm for 1 shot. Converted SRP Lapua brass, CCI 450s, 250 grain Lapua Scenars and Lil’ Gun.

 

[GregP42]

View attachment 8157289View attachment 8157290
Forgot to arm for 1 shot. Converted SRP Lapua brass, CCI 450s, 250 grain Lapua Scenars and Lil’ Gun.

Very nice, about how much lil'gun did you use, and was this gas or bolt?

Greg

 

[MSBRPT]

Very nice, about how much lil'gun did you use, and was this gas or bolt?

Greg

11 grains, 2.7” for COAL out of a Q Fix.

 

[Dave__th3__ss]

so has anyone found a powder thats not temp sensitive to supers out of a 16" barrel?

 

[Adam M]

so has anyone found a powder thats not temp sensitive to supers out of a 16" barrel?

I see that A5744 is a similar burn rate to A1680 and its a double base extruded powder. Every table I've come across shows that it's 1 step above 1680 in terms of burn rate. Going from ball powder to stick powder should help with temp sensitivity. Never used 5744 myself but it's said to provide pretty low velocity spreads and SDs

 

[Adam M]

I see that A5744 is a similar burn rate to A1680 and its a double base extruded powder. Every table I've come across shows that it's 1 step above 1680 in terms of burn rate. Going from ball powder to stick powder should help with temp sensitivity. Never used 5744 myself but it's said to provide pretty low velocity spreads and SDs

Also said to be insensitive to position which is pretty important with a low powder charge relative to your brass capacity

 

[Dave__th3__ss]

I see that A5744 is a similar burn rate to A1680 and its a double base extruded powder. Every table I've come across shows that it's 1 step above 1680 in terms of burn rate. Going from ball powder to stick powder should help with temp sensitivity. Never used 5744 myself but it's said to provide pretty low velocity spreads and SDs

I’ll give it a shot. I plan on shooting a few coyotes this year with it. Cause why not

 

[Adam M]

I’ll give it a shot. I plan on shooting a few coyotes this year with it. Cause why not

I took a hog with mine a couple weekends ago using a 185 cx. Hit the middle of the neck and when I was quartering him out there was no spine to sever to take the head off. Exit wound was the size of a golf ball