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Active Shooter in El Paso???

Dude there were definitely armed shoppers there. Everyone wants to be billy bad ass and strap on a gun but no one wants to rely on their (severe lack of) capability. Mix that with a bit of “fuck this I’m (and my family are) out of here. If something pops up between me and the exit, I’ll go to work. Otherwise, fuck this.”

I don’t give a fuck about anyone but my family (or myself if I’m alone) while out and about. Get in my way as I exit, I’ll go to work. Otherwise, I’m not LE and I’m not getting shot by another shopper or LE by trying to be hero.

I'm almost there with you. If my family is with me, they are my protectees. They will be hustled the fuck out of danger forthwith and anyone stepping in the way is getting decked or worse.

If I'm alone, that's a different story. Five years ago I would have told you that I would unass the area ASAP since the fight isn't with me. Now, today, I see things a little differently.
 
It's the problem with being a civilian and trying to be all nice and peaceful and such. Usually your good stuff is in the car or back home.
Like this afternoon I was out at the local large grocery store, if something had gone down I would have been stuck with just my short barreled Ruger LCR revolver. NOT going up against someone with a rifle with that, unless I had no option to get off the X and was trapped and face to face with the killer.

Now back in my car, I had plenty of stuff to go up against a few gunmen at once... Full on tacticool setup with armor and all...but yep going to do me a lot of good in my car....

Now if I could carry my full sized CZ target pistol with red dot sight, sure then maybe I stalk the killer since that's dead nuts accurate at a distance, but I can't figure out how to carry concealed anything bigger in the Texas heat with my active up and down lifestyle, and I'm sure not doing some Open Carry BS stuff.

Absolutely true and I fully agree.

The problem with it is that it completely negates the “good guy with a gun” argument that many cling to. Incidents that are just dude with a pistol robbing a 7-11, means most are on par with the assailant. However, those carrying when a shooter walks into a place to kill people should have only one thing on their minds, getting themselves safely out and using their piece if it comes to it. ...because your G43/LCP/DB9/XDS9 more than likely (understatement) isn’t going to help you against a dude with a long gun and plates. Which then rotates back to the argument that a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun and always leads to the “was no one carrying in the store/theater/park?!” question.

We need to do better as a country and armed populace, but we also need to understand that it’s such a small percentage of the whole picture and not let emotions carry us down the wrong path.

Level headed discussions and professional engagement with your elected officials is crucial for success. Don’t have a good Rep or Sen? Run against them or support an opposing candidate that can bring about the change you want to see.

Like I always say, guns are bad but people are the worst.

#SayNoToPeople #SayYesToArtificialIntelligence #JKGunsArentBad...UnlessTheyAreGarbageBuildsAndBrands #BuyOnceCryOnce #YouCanOnlyCarrySoMuchSoBuyQuality
 
I really do get it, but I wouldn't think you could walk across a Texas parking lot with a rifle in your hands, and not have about 30-50 guns pointed at you. I wanted to move to Texas at one time in my life because I thought it was a "real men" state and I felt myself and my family would fit right in. This is some really terrible shit that's happened, I just thought their would have been a slightly different outcome. Mac

You severely overestimate the number of citizens ready and willing to get down to business and severely underestimating the sheep mentality today.
 
It's the problem with being a civilian and trying to be all nice and peaceful and such. Usually your good stuff is in the car or back home.
Like this afternoon I was out at the local large grocery store, if something had gone down I would have been stuck with just my short barreled Ruger LCR revolver. NOT going up against someone with a rifle with that, unless I had no option to get off the X and was trapped and face to face with the killer.

Now back in my car, I had plenty of stuff to go up against a few gunmen at once... Full on tacticool setup with armor and all...but yep going to do me a lot of good in my car....

Now if I could carry my full sized CZ target pistol with red dot sight, sure then maybe I stalk the killer since that's dead nuts accurate at a distance, but I can't figure out how to carry concealed anything bigger in the Texas heat with my active up and down lifestyle, and I'm sure not doing some Open Carry BS stuff.

Sorry bro, where there's a will there's a way.
 
I'm almost there with you. If my family is with me, they are my protectees. They will be hustled the fuck out of danger forthwith and anyone stepping in the way is getting decked or worse.

If I'm alone, that's a different story. Five years ago I would have told you that I would unass the area ASAP since the fight isn't with me. Now, today, I see things a little differently.

Fair enough and I agree.

If you looked as angry as I do and like someone who is always being selected for random TSA screenings, you’d think twice about pulling a gun after the shooting has started hahaha.

I look at it like this, if my family isn’t there, then it’s my job to make sure I make it back to them. Helping others along the way is obviously a given, but I’m not turning towards the rifle fire, with an unknown number of shooters, in a T shirt with a G19 or XDS9, just to get capped by someone who is just trying to get out of there and sees me as a threat. ...or worse, seeing a dude with a gun in plain clothes shooting and shooting him just to find out he was an off duty officer or another citizen trying to help.
 
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I would like to be able to carry my AR-15 slung over my shoulder when I go for a walk and where there are no gun free zones. Open carry is legal in my state. There have also been open carry walks with large groups of people carrying their AR-15s and have gone off without incident.

Yet watch what happens if I carry an AR-15 slung over my shoulder in my neighborhood. I'd have a dozen cops pointing their guns at me and telling me to kiss the concrete. I'd be lucky if I wasn't shot by a so-called friendly cop.

So, yes, the fact that a lot of good guys don't walk around as heavliy armed as a killer like this does water down the good guy with a gun argument.

Stephen Willeford stopped a shooter at the church in Sutherland Springs. He was only able to do that becuase he lived across the street from the church and kept his AR-15 loaded.

Imagine if one or more people carried their AR-15s in the chruch. The shooter may have only been able to hit one or two if he was lucky.

Imagine if someone in the concert had their AR-15 with a red dot sight in Las Vegas. A lot less people probably would have been shot.

The problem, as already said, is that when the cops see anyone with a gun; even a good guy; that person gets perforated. Recall the shooting of Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford Jr. in an Alabama mall. He was trying to rescue people and the cops shot him.

I agree that a good guy with a gun can stop a lot of these shootings. The problem is that society, politicians, businesses and cops are the ones who try to discourage the good guys from carrying guns in the first place.
 
because your G43/LCP/DB9/XDS9 more than likely (understatement) isn’t going to help you against a dude with a long gun and plates. Which then rotates back to the argument that a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun and always leads to the “was no one carrying in the store/theater/park?!” question.

That is the problem and the downside to concealed carry. It's great for one on one up close threats but your weapons choice is most likely going to be incorrect for the very rare (statistically) active mass murder events.

Now if I had my full sized CZ 75 with RDS I could stalk and have a chance going up against an average guy with rifle & plates because I can easily even at a pretty good distance put a whole bunch of rounds accurately everywhere the plates are not (I was actually looking at the pictures of the police response and surprised how little coverage most of them had from their plates. You'd have to hope the guy was a good shot & aiming at center chest mass).

But that's in the car / home not on me and I think it's the same way for most civilians.

Maybe we need to start a new fashion trend of men carrying around manly purses?

Of course the other issue is not getting shot by the police while they totally ignore the actual bad guy (as happened to one unfortunate person in a mall shooting recently).

Now if open carry was like mandatory for everyone it might be a different story, but you'll never get that.

Look at this guy here, unless the shooter is a good shot, they might completely miss the small plate carrier

16852798-7317905-Police_stand_at_attention_during_an_active_shooter_at_a_Walmart_-a-74_1564864...jpg
 
To be honest some of it started with Massad Ayoob. Every article he wrote seemed like it was trying to say “are you armed and being attacked? blow your brains out instead of defending yourself or family”.

Part of it was California. And probably still is California. Those acting in self defense were many times treated worse than a serial child rapist/murderer.

Problem is it soaked in in everyone’s consciousness.

I never read anything from Massage Aboob. Evidently I didn't miss much.

First thing I did after getting a CHL was to see an attorney for good hour, we talked about the realities of how things will likely go down in my state. I have a good idea of what I need to do to stay above water.
 
The plate isn’t there to stop all gunfire - it’s there to stop GSW’s that are almost impossible to fix.

Some dude that took a lung shot? Probably dead. Even in a hospital. Learned this from the big city EMTs.

True but grab your copy of Grey's Anatomy, overlay the circulatory system sheet over that guy and there is a whole lot of spots (not including the head) where he is unprotected and a bullet hit will have him bleeding out before he gets to the hospital.

Not knocking wearing the stuff, but maybe think about a bit more coverage as an important part of it.
 
Sorry bro, where there's a will there's a way.

Have any suggestions for a good daily carry man purse that doesn't attract attention, make me look tactical or make people want to come up and talk to me about it? I'd be fine if they just assume I'm a lumbersexual and leave me alone.
 

From that study:

"Significantly, while tragic and shocking, public mass shootings account for FEW of the murders or non-negligent homicides
related to firearms that occur annually in the United States. "


That pretty much sums up a lot of things about mass murders. They don't happen that much.

To repeat what some other posters have already said, "Why doesn't the MSM report on the killings in the Socilaist enclave of Chicago?"
 
Have any suggestions for a good daily carry man purse that doesn't attract attention, make me look tactical or make people want to come up and talk to me about it? I'd be fine if they just assume I'm a lumbersexual and leave me alone.

Get some short sleeve technical t shirts and slightly oversized technical polos. Wear the polo untucked.

I don't do off body carry. I'm not that big and I can conceal a 4" K frame or a P-09 at will.

Yes, it does get very hot and humid in the Ohio River Valley.......
 
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For those who are saying that they will not try to take on a rifle armed perp with just a handgun, we got to take into account the engagement distances of a typical mass shooter situation.

I am not trying to snipe his fucking loser ass across a pasture. I am trying to get as close as possible without being seen, like tracking a feral hog or coyote, and then emptying his fucking brain pan. My carry pistol is usually a .357 Mag full sized revolver or a .45, revolver or semi-auto. Within 50 yards I am on the same playing field as any scumbag with a rifle. I'd invite someone like that to bring it the fuck on.

If I did not try to do something to stop him, I don't think I would ever be able to sleep again for the rest of my life. And I certainly will not be able to look at my mother and my GF and my future children again and say that I am a man who will protect them. Fuck that shit. Even if all I had was a knife, I'd wait for an opening, prison yard rush his ass from behind and plant it up to the hilt right through his neck and crowbar-pry the fucker right back out. And if I must buy a farm so that no more innocent lives are further taken away, I pray to God to let there be a saloon nearby where Old No. 7 is always on tap and there is always the melody of a minstrel banjo to be heard.
 
I would like to be able to carry my AR-15 slung over my shoulder when I go for a walk and where there are no gun free zones. Open carry is legal in my state. There have also been open carry walks with large groups of people carrying their AR-15s and have gone off without incident.

Yet watch what happens if I carry an AR-15 slung over my shoulder in my neighborhood. I'd have a dozen cops pointing their guns at me and telling me to kiss the concrete. I'd be lucky if I wasn't shot by a so-called friendly cop.

So, yes, the fact that a lot of good guys don't walk around as heavliy armed as a killer like this does water down the good guy with a gun argument.

Stephen Willeford stopped a shooter at the church in Sutherland Springs. He was only able to do that becuase he lived across the street from the church and kept his AR-15 loaded.

Imagine if one or more people carried their AR-15s in the chruch. The shooter may have only been able to hit one or two if he was lucky.

Imagine if someone in the concert had their AR-15 with a red dot sight in Las Vegas. A lot less people probably would have been shot.

The problem, as already said, is that when the cops see anyone with a gun; even a good guy; that person gets perforated. Recall the shooting of Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford Jr. in an Alabama mall. He was trying to rescue people and the cops shot him.

I agree that a good guy with a gun can stop a lot of these shootings. The problem is that society, politicians, businesses and cops are the ones who try to discourage the good guys from carrying guns in the first place.

Honestly I’ll have to disagree. I’ve been around enough active military/vets, LE, OCONUS EPD contractors, and civilians on a range to not want to be around a bunch of people open carrying a long gun. I’m cool with other people shooting at me while trying to intentionally kill me, but I’m not cool with people shooting at me or flagging me with their shit when not intending to kill me lol. It’s weird, I know, but I appreciate it more when they mean to do it lol.
 
I’ve found I’m the type that runs towards. In this day and age your arguably more likely to get shot reacting as a armed citizen then the perpetrator(s) though. It’s a dangerous game trying to second guess what others do or do not. You can’t fault a man for putting family first. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night if I had a opportunity and did nothing though.
 
I’ve found I’m the type that runs towards. In this day and age your arguably more likely to get shot reacting as a armed citizen then the perpetrator(s) though. It’s a dangerous game trying to second guess what others do or do not. You can’t fault a man for putting family first. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night if I had a opportunity and did nothing though.

Days of running first for country and running first for money are over for this guy. I’ll put a dude down if it’s stopping me from getting out but I’m not going hunting into the unknown for strangers just to get shot in the back by some asshole or responder who thinks I’m the shooter. I have a family to care for. Raising my son and being there for my wife is more important to me than my fellow Walmart shoppers...who would be the first to trample kids and women on Black Friday just to get a TV.
 
Days of running first for country and running first for money are over for this guy. I’ll put a dude down if it’s stopping me from getting out but I’m not going hunting into the unknown for strangers just to get shot in the back by some asshole or responder who thinks I’m the shooter. I have a family to care for. Raising my son and being there for my wife is more important to me than my fellow Walmart shoppers...who would be the first to trample kids and women on Black Friday just to get a TV.
To be old and wise you must first be young and stupid..
 
I would like to be able to carry my AR-15 slung over my shoulder when I go for a walk and where there are no gun free zones. Open carry is legal in my state. There have also been open carry walks with large groups of people carrying their AR-15s and have gone off without incident.

Yet watch what happens if I carry an AR-15 slung over my shoulder in my neighborhood. I'd have a dozen cops pointing their guns at me and telling me to kiss the concrete. I'd be lucky if I wasn't shot by a so-called friendly cop.

So, yes, the fact that a lot of good guys don't walk around as heavliy armed as a killer like this does water down the good guy with a gun argument.

Stephen Willeford stopped a shooter at the church in Sutherland Springs. He was only able to do that becuase he lived across the street from the church and kept his AR-15 loaded.

Imagine if one or more people carried their AR-15s in the chruch. The shooter may have only been able to hit one or two if he was lucky.

Imagine if someone in the concert had their AR-15 with a red dot sight in Las Vegas. A lot less people probably would have been shot.

The problem, as already said, is that when the cops see anyone with a gun; even a good guy; that person gets perforated. Recall the shooting of Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford Jr. in an Alabama mall. He was trying to rescue people and the cops shot him.

I agree that a good guy with a gun can stop a lot of these shootings. The problem is that society, politicians, businesses and cops are the ones who try to discourage the good guys from carrying guns in the first place.


Don’t forget that cops are being chucked out of Starbucks . Paramedics are even being thrown out of McDonalds. Makes it even tougher for a good guy with a gun and no badge to not be seen as a threat.

I’m personally a huge proponent of deputizing those willing to train/certify to be used as armed first responders in the same way we have medical first responders available until EMS arrives. Making it work in practice could be a nightmare due to legal issues and perception, but it’s certainly worked in the past. IDF go everywhere with an M4, bolt locked back/‘magazine out, I’d take that load out any day over a CCW.
 
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True but grab your copy of Grey's Anatomy, overlay the circulatory system sheet over that guy and there is a whole lot of spots (not including the head) where he is unprotected and a bullet hit will have him bleeding out before he gets to the hospital.

Not knocking wearing the stuff, but maybe think about a bit more coverage as an important part of it.

Groin shots are great for taking someone out of the action.
 
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What I fail to understand is WHY these characters are taken alive.

"Sir, I had him covered and he made a move that looked like he was going for a weapon, so to protect everyone I shot him." (3 times at the base of the skull.)

No trial, no lengthy jail time, no noxious chemicals in the arm. Win/Win
 
What I fail to understand is WHY these characters are taken alive.

"Sir, I had him covered and he made a move that looked like he was going for a weapon, so to protect everyone I shot him." (3 times at the base of the skull.)

No trial, no lengthy jail time, no noxious chemicals in the arm. Win/Win


People on this forum and much of society speak openly about their lack of trust in actions taken by police officers in a variety of situations. In general, and there are exceptions, law enforcement does their very best to follow the law and enforce the law.

It seems you might be suggesting that police ignore the laws and conduct an execution.
 
I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night if I had a opportunity and did nothing though.
So would I

In an active killer situation don't draw till you need to, holster immediately when done, then get the fuck out of dodge. If you actually take the fucker out and can get away in the confusion do so. As soon as you get home LAWYER THE FUCK UP. Only speak to police later AFTER you do so.


Or get all this shit and put it on before going to town:
tumblr_nukg73EoCp1s2fmvmo1_500.jpg
 
People on this forum and much of society speak openly about their lack of trust in actions taken by police officers in a variety of situations. In general, and there are exceptions, law enforcement does their very best to follow the law and enforce the law.

It seems you might be suggesting that police ignore the laws and conduct an execution.

Let me rephrase.

"Accidents happen."

1564887563876.png
 
People on this forum and much of society speak openly about their lack of trust in actions taken by police officers in a variety of situations. In general, and there are exceptions, law enforcement does their very best to follow the law and enforce the law.

It seems you might be suggesting that police ignore the laws and conduct an execution.
If they will kick in the wrong door and shoot a unarmed American the least they could do is take out a real bad guy instead of hiding outside when the situation presents itself
 
It's the problem with being a civilian and trying to be all nice and peaceful and such. Usually your good stuff is in the car or back home.
Like this afternoon I was out at the local large grocery store, if something had gone down I would have been stuck with just my short barreled Ruger LCR revolver. NOT going up against someone with a rifle with that, unless I had no option to get off the X and was trapped and face to face with the killer.

Now back in my car, I had plenty of stuff to go up against a few gunmen at once... Full on tacticool setup with armor and all...but yep going to do me a lot of good in my car....

Now if I could carry my full sized CZ target pistol with red dot sight, sure then maybe I stalk the killer since that's dead nuts accurate at a distance, but I can't figure out how to carry concealed anything bigger in the Texas heat with my active up and down lifestyle, and I'm sure not doing some Open Carry BS stuff.

Respectfully, if you are saying that, if you could have got to your car and donned armor and AR then went back to engage, well then I’d have to say that would be about the dumbest thing you could possibly do. SWAT rolls up in two minutes and sees a guy with an AR and armor whether you were trying to do the right thing or not, you going to wind up dead. You would have made yourself the active shooter in their minds. That may not be what you said, but that’s how I read it.
 
Fuck me. I have been a busy MoFo all day and just learned about this.

I am sick to my stomach.

I dont know about other states, but where I live malls/business can post "gun free zone" type signs and they mean nothing. All they can do is ask you to leave. At that point non-compliance is trespass. So fuck-em.
 
Respectfully, if you are saying that, if you could have got to your car and donned armor and AR then went back to engage, well then I’d have to say that would be about the dumbest thing you could possibly do. SWAT rolls up in two minutes and sees a guy with an AR and armor whether you were trying to do the right thing or not, you going to wind up dead. You would have made yourself the active shooter in their minds. That may not be what you said, but that’s how I read it.

I think you misunderstood the paragraph I posted on that.

What I was saying is that while in the car, in the parking lot I have all kinds of gear to match with lots of opponents, the reality is that it is not able to be used & would do me no good in the situation, specifically because it is all sitting outside the building some distance away and all I actually have for the threat is the much less capable stuff that I carry in my pocket or on me. By the time I could get to my car it would all be over one way or another most likely.

I assume this is also the case for probably 90% of normal civilian folks that carry.
You may have all the cool stuff you could ever want in your car or house but when you actually wind up in a life threatening situation it will be you and whatever compromise option you are carrying on you.

And yes, trying to take time to gear up at your car and then go back is probably going to get you shot by the local police even if they are busy hiding and waiting till the actual killer runs out of bullets, they will somehow magically have time to shoot you dead and then get back to waiting for the killer to shoot all the targets and then surrender or kill himself.

(Funny how that seems to work, just like the Florida school shooting.... wait till the guy finishes and leaves for a burger, or in this case, 20 minutes later he runs out of bullets and gives up... Then the police show up with all their cool military gear acting all tough and pointing guns at terrified survivors).
 
Unique situation for a texas wallmart crowd.

First of the month.
Midday.
Tax free weekend for school supplies.
Many bad hombres told thier wife no way I'm going to wallmart.

Probably a big lack of firearms out,
Legal or not.

In north texas saw people open carry today at grocery store.
Brand new holster unscratched no wear on bluing.

One guy had a brand new rig at checkout in front of me. I kept looking at it, couldn't figure out why. Then it hit me it was worn crossdraw, don't see that much.

Guess the snubnose will sit it out for a while and double stack 9 will be first string, mostly concealed.

Worn burnished leather, bluing missing sctatched up and can still shoot the hell out of it.

Kind of has that certain F-off look to it.

The ds 45 full size with a doctor on it is too much of a cop magnet in big
city's. Lol
 
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Lol, all he needed to look at was his neighborhood. Everyday dozens of mexicans roll up to mow the lawns of the wealthy that live there.
 
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Let me rephrase.

"Accidents happen."

View attachment 7123643

Here’s my dollars worth: As soon as I heard what this one did, the only thing I could think was make sure he’s the assailant, when certain, hardcore interrogators operate on him for every detail, home and life turned inside-out, more hardcore info dive inside-out, call an open press conference, bring him out, shot to the head let drop post detail guards let him lay in view for the world to see. Would be right to do it right outside that store but the time for info search may be of real use. Fuck ‘im. Cruel and unusual...not at all....you coldly murder/injure that many people?....no, it should be cruel and unusual NOT to do that!! Quit this total pussy foot civil 2yr. slow parade in courts with attorneys. I’m just sayin’.

Side note on photograph taken by an old school REAL journalist. Eddie Adams.


 
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With his manifesto, weapon, lame wearing what looked like airport runway muffs, a guess?...REAL possible “operation” happening. Remains to be seen if even revealed.
 
Buy more guns and ammo.....NOW!

After the picture of the shooter and his WASR was posted I ordered an AK and some mags, I figure there will be a run on those things by Monday. Targetsportsusa is sold out of almost all of the inexpensive 7.62x39, they had plenty this afternoon.
 
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