DeLane Development Group Rimfire Ventures
- Thread starter RAVAGE88
- Start date
Hey, careful there with the age discrimination! Don't forget, the older BR guys have spent a lot of their retirement money on your designs...That would be pretty cool. And I agree, the 50 yard BR guys only care about what was new 50 years ago, when most of them were in their 40s.
MB
C’mon BR guys, I’m kidding.
Just kidding back at you!
And by the way, what, in your experience and data is the optimal setup for 50 BR shooting? Is it still 16 twist?Hey, careful there with the age discrimination! Don't forget, the older BR guys have spent a lot of their retirement money on your designs...
Just kidding back at you!
Thanks,
Larry
Yo, Dude, too funny, and I appreciate your sense of humor.
Yes, 16 twist; there's not a lot to be gained from tapping into more available BC for the BR stuff. Although my nine twist does very well at 50, the BR application is dependent on other criteria that the BR folks have dialed in very tightly.
MB
If I understand the “issue” is that BC is changing as the velocity is slowing down and is critical after a certain distance (for sake of argument 150-200 yards, could be after 100 or after 250, but at some greater distance than 100) and ways to compensate for better BC (to counter air resistance and destabilization) is play with barrel twist and/or bullet shape/profile. Are there other means to alter BC or other means to help prolong the destabilization and keep as much accuracy and precision for all ranges 0-500 yards (ideally)?
Quick Update: Available to order, email to [email protected]
Springs:
Main Springs for all generations of V-22 (most probably call them firing pin springs) are available as follows:
DDG-MS15V22 15 lbf Main Spring--Green
DDG-MS16V22 16 lbf Main Spring--Orange
DDG-MS17V22 17 lbf Main Spring--Red
DDG-MS18V22 18 lbf Main Spring--Purple
DDG-MS19V22 19 lbf Main Spring--Blue
DDG-MS20V22 20 lbf Main Spring--Yellow
DDG-MS22V22 22 lbf Main Spring—No Color
Complete Main Spring Kit: all seven springs, DDG-MSK-V22: $63.00
Individual Springs, order by color code: $9.69 each
Extractor/Pusher Spring Kit--DDG-EPSK-V22: $7.00
Magazine Springs:
Legacy Nylon Mags and Gen 1 Aluminum Mags:
Five Round Aluminum Mag Spring, DDG-V22-MS05: $5.00
10 Round Nylon/Gen 1 Alum Mag Spring, DDG-V22-MS10: $8.00
15 Round Gen 1 Alum Mag Spring, DDG-V22-MS15: $10.00
Bolt Stop Springs will be included with the specific Bolt Stop Kits for Gen 1, Gen 2, and Gen 3 V22 Actions.
Single Screw Cocking Piece:
Gen2/Gen3 60 Deg Single Screw Cocking Piece, DDG-G2/G3-60DCP: $83.00
Next Week:
Firing Pins for Gen 2/Gen 3 Repeaters and Gen 3 Single Shot will be available to order. I'll announce when I'm opening the ordering and will provide pricing at that time.
Thank you, to this incredible community, for your support,
MB
Springs:
Main Springs for all generations of V-22 (most probably call them firing pin springs) are available as follows:
DDG-MS15V22 15 lbf Main Spring--Green
DDG-MS16V22 16 lbf Main Spring--Orange
DDG-MS17V22 17 lbf Main Spring--Red
DDG-MS18V22 18 lbf Main Spring--Purple
DDG-MS19V22 19 lbf Main Spring--Blue
DDG-MS20V22 20 lbf Main Spring--Yellow
DDG-MS22V22 22 lbf Main Spring—No Color
Complete Main Spring Kit: all seven springs, DDG-MSK-V22: $63.00
Individual Springs, order by color code: $9.69 each
Extractor/Pusher Spring Kit--DDG-EPSK-V22: $7.00
Magazine Springs:
Legacy Nylon Mags and Gen 1 Aluminum Mags:
Five Round Aluminum Mag Spring, DDG-V22-MS05: $5.00
10 Round Nylon/Gen 1 Alum Mag Spring, DDG-V22-MS10: $8.00
15 Round Gen 1 Alum Mag Spring, DDG-V22-MS15: $10.00
Bolt Stop Springs will be included with the specific Bolt Stop Kits for Gen 1, Gen 2, and Gen 3 V22 Actions.
Single Screw Cocking Piece:
Gen2/Gen3 60 Deg Single Screw Cocking Piece, DDG-G2/G3-60DCP: $83.00
Next Week:
Firing Pins for Gen 2/Gen 3 Repeaters and Gen 3 Single Shot will be available to order. I'll announce when I'm opening the ordering and will provide pricing at that time.
Thank you, to this incredible community, for your support,
MB
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The relationship between MV and POI with .22LR is not always consistent. While this isn't always clear at 50 yards, it is undeniable at twice the distance. That is to say, for a variety of potential reasons, by the point where distance is twice the usual BR distance, MV doesn't always predict POI.
When shooting at much longer distances, how consistent is the relationship between TOF and accuracy performance?
When shooting at much longer distances, how consistent is the relationship between TOF and accuracy performance?
Quick Update:
Receiver Wrenches:
All Receiver Wrenches:
DDG-RW-G1RH
DDG-RW-G1LH
DDG-RW-G2RH
DDG-RW-G2LH
DDG-RW-G3RH
DDG-RW-G3LH
Are here and everything is good to go. I'm shipping everything out tomorrow and there are plenty left in stock for those that would like to pick one or more up for your work bench.
Single Screw Cocking Pieces:
Orders are coming in and parts are shipping tomorrow.
I'll keep everyone posted in the Gen 2/Gen 3 Repeater Firing Pins, and the Gen 3 Single Shot Firing Pins. They'll land in my shop within another day or so.
All the best,
MB
Receiver Wrenches:
All Receiver Wrenches:
DDG-RW-G1RH
DDG-RW-G1LH
DDG-RW-G2RH
DDG-RW-G2LH
DDG-RW-G3RH
DDG-RW-G3LH
Are here and everything is good to go. I'm shipping everything out tomorrow and there are plenty left in stock for those that would like to pick one or more up for your work bench.
Single Screw Cocking Pieces:
Orders are coming in and parts are shipping tomorrow.
I'll keep everyone posted in the Gen 2/Gen 3 Repeater Firing Pins, and the Gen 3 Single Shot Firing Pins. They'll land in my shop within another day or so.
All the best,
MB
Mornin, Dude, you've not missed anything. The bolt stops are inbound, as are the threaded pins and I have springs on hand. I'll have the complete kits for these ready to go in another week or so.
MB
Quick Update:
Receiver Wrenches:
The backlog of Receiver Wrenches is out the door via USPS Priority, and if you ordered as recently as this morning, it's on the way to you now. I appreciate the patience as I dealt with getting an issue sorted.
Single Screw Cocking Pieces:
I'm down to less than 100 in stock; they're going fast, but I'll be issuing another PO if you're not quick enough on the email to me to get squared away.
Magazine Progress:
I'm highly pleased with how this has come together. The custom form tools have been designed and ordered, and the Swiss machines are about to turn out Thumb Buttons and the Adjustable Catch Block. The validation in the Mill/Turn has been with the V-Series 17 Round to test the clearance envelope, and the 10 round case halves are about to start. Pictures very soon.
DDG Range Test Fixture:
I've been receiving DMs and emails about the Range Test Fixture. I've held off on the launch during the summer slump and have been planning to start taking orders around mid-September. If you guys are ready for them now, I'm perfectly willing to get them in the mix sooner than later.
DBMs:
The DDG Standard M5 and M5x DBMs are in the early phases of LRIP, so, like the Range Test Fixture, I can get ahead of the curve and start Pre-Orders if there's enough interest.
All the best,
MB
Receiver Wrenches:
The backlog of Receiver Wrenches is out the door via USPS Priority, and if you ordered as recently as this morning, it's on the way to you now. I appreciate the patience as I dealt with getting an issue sorted.
Single Screw Cocking Pieces:
I'm down to less than 100 in stock; they're going fast, but I'll be issuing another PO if you're not quick enough on the email to me to get squared away.
Magazine Progress:
I'm highly pleased with how this has come together. The custom form tools have been designed and ordered, and the Swiss machines are about to turn out Thumb Buttons and the Adjustable Catch Block. The validation in the Mill/Turn has been with the V-Series 17 Round to test the clearance envelope, and the 10 round case halves are about to start. Pictures very soon.
DDG Range Test Fixture:
I've been receiving DMs and emails about the Range Test Fixture. I've held off on the launch during the summer slump and have been planning to start taking orders around mid-September. If you guys are ready for them now, I'm perfectly willing to get them in the mix sooner than later.
DBMs:
The DDG Standard M5 and M5x DBMs are in the early phases of LRIP, so, like the Range Test Fixture, I can get ahead of the curve and start Pre-Orders if there's enough interest.
All the best,
MB
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For the sake of the Pre-Order, I believe it's going to be around $415 with a bushing plate.
MB
Quick Update:
Invoices to Gmail:
Well, I'm on my third CC processor and second bookkeeping solution, but I now have no issue getting invoices to Gmail and Hotmail. Self-resolving has its merits. Thank you to everyone that reached out to make sure you'd get an invoice, and I also appreciate those that offered up suggestions for a resolution.
Main (Firing) Pin Spring Selection:
I'm getting a lot of questions about which Main Spring should be used, which is good, and I've shared my answer to this question individually, but I'm getting this question so much that I deem it necessary to share it here.
The key to proper ignition is the effective and consistent delivery of focused energy to the case rim. The energy equation is made up of the trigger, how much drag is in the particular assembly (which lube is used, surface finish, etc.) and of course spring rate.
Spring rate is more of the determining component in a spring-around-pin (SAP) fire control system. A pin-around-spring (PAS) system depends more on mass, which equates to momentum (yes, I have my personal favorite).
So, these determining factors (and there's more than I've mentioned) are the reason there's a spring kit, which is designed to accommodate the variables.
So, the only way to truly know which spring you need is to "listen to your rifle" by seeing what level of down range performance is optimal (based on your own requirements of what's "optimal') with a given spring rate.
Also, it's important to note that adding paint to the spring to identify the rate (15lbf to 20lbf) is a detriment to performance because the paint becomes part of the drag equation. The problem is, there isn't necessarily a better way to identify them, so I tell people to remove the paint to lessen the drag and increase the efficiency of the system. But again, your own definition of "optimal" should be considered if you'd rather not remove the paint.
Theres tons more to follow as all these projects move forward so stay tuned, and please keep the questions coming. It's great to hear from everyone and it's interesting because so many of you open with, "I don't want to bother you, but...." Please know that anyone reaching out with a question isn't "bothering" me at all. Most of you receive a rather immediate response and there are times I miss an email with the flurry of emails that come in, but I will take the time to answer your questions.
Thanks,
MB
Invoices to Gmail:
Well, I'm on my third CC processor and second bookkeeping solution, but I now have no issue getting invoices to Gmail and Hotmail. Self-resolving has its merits. Thank you to everyone that reached out to make sure you'd get an invoice, and I also appreciate those that offered up suggestions for a resolution.
Main (Firing) Pin Spring Selection:
I'm getting a lot of questions about which Main Spring should be used, which is good, and I've shared my answer to this question individually, but I'm getting this question so much that I deem it necessary to share it here.
The key to proper ignition is the effective and consistent delivery of focused energy to the case rim. The energy equation is made up of the trigger, how much drag is in the particular assembly (which lube is used, surface finish, etc.) and of course spring rate.
Spring rate is more of the determining component in a spring-around-pin (SAP) fire control system. A pin-around-spring (PAS) system depends more on mass, which equates to momentum (yes, I have my personal favorite).
So, these determining factors (and there's more than I've mentioned) are the reason there's a spring kit, which is designed to accommodate the variables.
So, the only way to truly know which spring you need is to "listen to your rifle" by seeing what level of down range performance is optimal (based on your own requirements of what's "optimal') with a given spring rate.
Also, it's important to note that adding paint to the spring to identify the rate (15lbf to 20lbf) is a detriment to performance because the paint becomes part of the drag equation. The problem is, there isn't necessarily a better way to identify them, so I tell people to remove the paint to lessen the drag and increase the efficiency of the system. But again, your own definition of "optimal" should be considered if you'd rather not remove the paint.
Theres tons more to follow as all these projects move forward so stay tuned, and please keep the questions coming. It's great to hear from everyone and it's interesting because so many of you open with, "I don't want to bother you, but...." Please know that anyone reaching out with a question isn't "bothering" me at all. Most of you receive a rather immediate response and there are times I miss an email with the flurry of emails that come in, but I will take the time to answer your questions.
Thanks,
MB
Mike, a spring question and a trigger question related to this ^^^ post:
- Firing pin spring: After maybe 12-14k rounds on my 2019-vintage V22 (serial 20xx), is a new firing pin spring advisable? As far as what the rifle is telling me re accuracy, all is copacetic. I very seldom disassemble the bolt for cleaning; when I've done so, its innards are clean with a film of lube visible.
- Trigger: Is there any way for a semi-skilled student of precision rifle to quantify drag imparted by the trigger, which, according to your preceding post, affects ignition consistency? I have a TT Diamond; action is in an MPA BA Comp chassis.
Yo, Dude, I have rifles with a higher round count that still have the same main spring, and I see the results down range that I like, so I haven't changed springs. The quality of the springs I originally spec'd is high, based on material type, etc. Additionally, from a "cycle" consideration, there's not a lot expected from the spring itself. Basically, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, but again, this is in accordance with how we define the result we're looking for.
As far as triggers, I usually make people unhappy when I talk about them. Mostly, because I hate the 60-degree sear angle. So, I've resolved myself to see Rem700 style triggers as more utilitarian based than performance based. Do they work? Yes. Are folks generally happy with what's available? Yes, but triggers are a subjective component. People choose their favorites, and they may not even know why it's their favorite.
From a utilitarian perspective, Timney has been my go-to trigger. In fact, they made my trigger, the 510U, for quite a while. The reasons for the 510U were to address timing and drag issues, so they sold a lot of them. They also prototyped my vertical sear trigger, that I still have in one of my V22s, but battling the construed conventional wisdom, industry wide, to move away from the angled sear, proved a larger battle for various reasons, so, here we are, still using an inferior design. The design of the 510U was folded into more recent offerings, but the 510U itself, by name, went away.
So, your question, "is there any way for a semi-skilled student of precision rifle to quantify drag imparted by the trigger?" My answer is, yes, but only if the semi-skilled student makes an effort to actually understand and address the real problems. Unfortunately, we're all surrounded by solutions that haven't focused on the real problems, so we have adjustable things we don't need, and yes, we're still using triggers that Anschutz, Accuracy International, and others, wouldn't dream of using.
Others, like Tubb, that have and are still trying to move users away from an inferior design are meeting the same resistance I did more than 15 years ago. So, it appears we're stuck with just making do with the utilitarian solutions, which are part of the drag problem.
MB
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