FN SPR Trigger options?

Bear24

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I am to the point that I am not completely new to LR shooting but still a little green. However I do feel that my shooting skills have gotten enough better that my trigger on my SPR is becoming more of a hurdle for me and I think that I need to replace it or maybe adjust it to get the most out of my rifle.

Any suggestions on drop in replacements or any exp. with adjusting the factory trigger and still keeping it safe.

Thanks
 

turbo54

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The traditional 2-lever trigger your rifle came with can be made quite nice, with a nice crisp letoff. It can be taken down to about 1.5-2lb and remain safe. It is an excellent field-reliable design.

Is yours creepy or just heavy?

If it's got some creep, there needs to be some material removed. This is a really touchy process and best left to someone that already really knows what they're doing. If it's just too heavy, you can adjust it down to ~2.5-3.0lb simply by cooking off the epoxy on the trigger adjustment nuts and adjusting them. To go lower than that you'll need a new, lighter and LONGER spring.

IT IS CRUCIAL THE SPRING IS ALWAYS PRELOADED. THIS WILL KEEP POSITIVE FORWARD FORCE ON THE TRIGGER PREVENTING SLAM FIRES. IF THE TRIGGER IS NOT ALWAYS PRELOADED BY THE SPRING INTO THE FORWARDMOST POSITION, THE TRIGGER IS LIABLE TO "MISS" CATCHING THE SEAR AS YOU CLOSE THE BOLT. THIS IS NOT GOOD AND YOU'LL BE SENDING BULLETS DOWNRANGE BY SIMPLY CLOSING THE BOLT.

Otherwise, both Jewell and CG Xtreme offer drop in triggers for these rifles. Depending on the feel you're after and the use of the rifle you might consider one over the other.

I've had both in my SPR. The jewell can be set incredibly light, but I've never been able to achieve a crisp letoff with these triggers. They'll let off smooth but not crisp. Also, mine failed (wouldn't reliably release) the first time it was out in the rain. Actually, it was ok while it was raining, but once the sun came out and things started drying out, it quit working correctly.

The CG Xtreme is excellent if you like a crisp, safe, 2 stage trigger. Only bummer with it as far as I'm concerned is the lack of overtravel stop/adjustment...it has a LOT of overtravel.

If you go the CG route, you'll want the one piece "tactical" trigger shoe, and you'll want to be sure you let them know it's for an FN SPR, and needs the special #4 lever.
 
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Palehorse68

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I'm in the same boat as you and have been thinking about changing out the factory trigger. There are a lot of opinions and it all boils down to personal preference. Quite a few folks say jewel and others will say another..Before I make the change I'm going to try and find someone who has a jewel and the other triggers and see how they feel. Either way it will be a noticeable improvement so you can't go wrong with whatever you choose.
 

Dacam

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I just adjusted my trigger on my A5m spr and it is considerably lighter then the factory setting. It was easy loosening the two nuts and putting a dab of nail polish to keep the nuts from
loosening. It is light, but does have a fair amount of creep to it. I wouldnt mind it so much but the creep is inconsistant. More or sometimes less creep.
 

turbo54

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turbo- What bottom metal are you using with which the CG was a drop in?

I'm using a CDI in a McM A4.

It previously had a Jewell, which required some stock grinding, and a little grinding on the front of the trigger opening of the bottom metal.

I had to grind some more on the front of the trigger opening for the CG to fit, but not too much.

I recently installed my old Jewell in a friends SPR that has the old FN DMB system (not the TBM), and had to grind on the triggergaurd a lot. Had to make a pocket about .250" long, 1/2 the the depth of the metal.
 

six 4 sure

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My bet is that you have a typical Model 70 trigger, I don't think they have put the MOA triggers in SPR's. The Mod 70 trigger is easily adjustable, just don't get crazy. I've adjusted several myself, and I've paid for trigger jobs too. Any decent smith should be able to do a trigger job on a Mod 70. That's the route I'd probably take. IMO, the factory design is such that it does not need replacing.

FWIW, mine seems to like RL-15 and 155gr Lapua's.
 

Niles Coyote

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    The traditional 2-lever trigger your rifle came with can be made quite nice, with a nice crisp letoff. It can be taken down to about 1.5-2lb and remain safe. It is an excellent field-reliable design.

    Is yours creepy or just heavy?

    If it's got some creep, there needs to be some material removed. This is a really touchy process and best left to someone that already really knows what they're doing. If it's just too heavy, you can adjust it down to ~2.5-3.0lb simply by cooking off the epoxy on the trigger adjustment nuts and adjusting them. To go lower than that you'll need a new, lighter and LONGER spring.

    IT IS CRUCIAL THE SPRING IS ALWAYS PRELOADED. THIS WILL KEEP POSITIVE FORWARD FORCE ON THE TRIGGER PREVENTING SLAM FIRES. IF THE TRIGGER IS NOT ALWAYS PRELOADED BY THE SPRING INTO THE FORWARDMOST POSITION, THE TRIGGER IS LIABLE TO "MISS" CATCHING THE SEAR AS YOU CLOSE THE BOLT. THIS IS NOT GOOD AND YOU'LL BE SENDING BULLETS DOWNRANGE BY SIMPLY CLOSING THE BOLT.

    I agree, I adjusted both my my SPR's down using the instructions here

    Adjusting a Winchester Trigger

    I was very pleased with the results. One did have just a little creep but it was consistent...
     

    sulcop96

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    I did the same as what nielscoyote posted above and mine is crisp and breaks right at 1.5. I have replaced many triggers on 700's but IMHO the SPR when adjusted is good to go.

    Sully
     

    Bear24

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    Thanks for all the responses, and that is great to hear about the factory trigger. Mine has zero creep but is just very heavy. I will play with it and if I don't feel comfortable with something I'll take it to a smith.
     

    Niles Coyote

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    Just for future reference should someone be researching the new Winchester MOA trigger I recently bought a replacement spring from

    N0. 8. Winchester M-70 M.O.A. Install a Light Trigger Spring .

    Installed and adjusted it to around 3 pounds plus or minus a quarter. (using a field expedient trigger scale, otherwise known as a fish scale... LOL) Before it was around 4.5-5 pounds. Easy job and Ernie’s was super quick on shipping.

    Now my Winchester Stealth, FN SPR replica, with an williams floor plate that they no longer carry on the SPR line without jumping for the A3G and stock options I don’t want... is complete.

    stealth005.jpg


    I bought a couple more springs for my rem 700’s from him since and let me tell you, I have been impressed with the results on both the old style and x-mark pro (adjustable) Remington triggers. The in-between X-mark (non adj) I am still working on. The first attempt was much lighter than I wish to use (~1.5#) and I am waiting on another spring set before proceeding.
     
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    19Scout77

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    Thanks for all the responses, and that is great to hear about the factory trigger. Mine has zero creep but is just very heavy. I will play with it and if I don't feel comfortable with something I'll take it to a smith.

    Good move. The only 100% drop in is the rifle basix...but it uses the factory sear so the only advantage it provides. is easier adjustment. Timney, jewell, cg xtreme all make winchester triggers that will work but will require minor stock and/or bottom metal modification.
     

    Charger442

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    my SPR was adjusted when my smith barreled the action. No creep, clean crisp break. It was so easy, i dont even think he charged me for it. I think it breaks at about 2.5 lbs. In a blind test, i could tell the difference between it and an aftermarket drop-in.
     

    Bear24

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    OK Fellas, I messed with my trigger a little tonight. I backed off the nuts a couple turns and ran the bolt as fast as I could several times and occasionally the sear didn't catch. so obviously I tightened it back up and I am back where I started. Looks like I have 2 options now:

    A: Do I order a new longer and less stiff spring and try that (if so could you point me to the spring that I need)?

    B: take it to a smith and be done with it?
     

    LRJammer

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    I was able to get decent results on one of mine but another just couldnt be improved apreciably. After giving up on it and replacing it with a Timney, I was spoiled and the other was soon replaced as well. One of my 70s has a Jewell that is capable of going quite light and is smooth, but their roller surfaces just wont allow for a crisp release.
     

    LRJammer

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    The one I used was the standard non-MOA model. I didnt even try to fit it in a factory stock so I cant speak to that. It doesnt look like it would be too obtrusive.
     

    Bear24

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    Ok I ordered some lightened springs from Paull firearms specialties one that should take the trigger pull down to around 3 lbs and a target version to take it down to around 2 lbs. Winchester M-70 Target Trigger Spring

    I installed the target version and the pull felt fairly good but if I hit the action with a rubber hammer the trigger bounced clear of the sear and released the firing pin. That didn't happen with the factory spring and is not acceptable in my book for safety reasons.

    Do I just need to tighten the adjustment screw up a bit or do I just need to take it to someone that has more experience?
     

    turbo54

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    Do I just need to tighten the adjustment screw up a bit or do I just need to take it to someone that has more experience?

    You'll need to preload the spring more. The trigger must be "sprung" forward. Keep preloading the spring a little at a time until it's safe.
     

    Bear24

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    You'll need to preload the spring more. The trigger must be "sprung" forward. Keep preloading the spring a little at a time until it's safe.

    Thats what I wanted to hear. I'm gonna pick up 2, 1/4" wrenches tomorrow so I have the right tools for the job and give it another go. My FN TBM should be here tomorrow too so I can get it all done at once!
     

    turbo54

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    To be clear:

    The position of the screw itself only changes over travel.

    The position of the top nut (above the trigger) sets spring preload.

    The bottom nut (above the trigger) only serves as a jam nut to lock the top nut in place.

    The very bottom nut (below the trigger) locks the position of the screw.
     
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    Bear24

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    To be clear:

    The position of the screw itself only changes over travel.

    The position of the top nut (above the trigger) sets spring preload.

    The bottom nut (above the trigger) only serves as a jam nut to lock the top nut in place.

    The very bottom nut (below the trigger) locks the position of the screw.

    Yeah, I have done quite a bit of reading on this as it is something that I do not take lightly. Safety is my top concern and want to do it right.
     

    Bear24

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    Thanks Turbo, I got my TBM installed and my trigger set just right in about an hour tonight. Looks like my rig is finally shaping up. Now time to see what it will really do!
     

    ashjwilliams

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    The traditional 2-lever trigger your rifle came with can be made quite nice, with a nice crisp letoff. It can be taken down to about 1.5-2lb and remain safe. It is an excellent field-reliable design.

    Is yours creepy or just heavy?

    If it's got some creep, there needs to be some material removed. This is a really touchy process and best left to someone that already really knows what they're doing. If it's just too heavy, you can adjust it down to ~2.5-3.0lb simply by cooking off the epoxy on the trigger adjustment nuts and adjusting them. To go lower than that you'll need a new, lighter and LONGER spring.

    IT IS CRUCIAL THE SPRING IS ALWAYS PRELOADED. THIS WILL KEEP POSITIVE FORWARD FORCE ON THE TRIGGER PREVENTING SLAM FIRES. IF THE TRIGGER IS NOT ALWAYS PRELOADED BY THE SPRING INTO THE FORWARDMOST POSITION, THE TRIGGER IS LIABLE TO "MISS" CATCHING THE SEAR AS YOU CLOSE THE BOLT. THIS IS NOT GOOD AND YOU'LL BE SENDING BULLETS DOWNRANGE BY SIMPLY CLOSING THE BOLT.

    Otherwise, both Jewell and CG Xtreme offer drop in triggers for these rifles. Depending on the feel you're after and the use of the rifle you might consider one over the other.

    I've had both in my SPR. The jewell can be set incredibly light, but I've never been able to achieve a crisp letoff with these triggers. They'll let off smooth but not crisp. Also, mine failed (wouldn't reliably release) the first time it was out in the rain. Actually, it was ok while it was raining, but once the sun came out and things started drying out, it quit working correctly.

    The CG Xtreme is excellent if you like a crisp, safe, 2 stage trigger. Only bummer with it as far as I'm concerned is the lack of overtravel stop/adjustment...it has a LOT of overtravel.

    If you go the CG route, you'll want the one piece "tactical" trigger shoe, and you'll want to be sure you let them know it's for an FN SPR, and needs the special #4 lever.

    Turbo54 could you please elaborate regarding what you are doing in regard to safety testing? I have been working to get my SPR setup this year for shooting at Thunder Valley Precision in Ohio. Started with an A2/A4 from Mike at Tactical Coordination. About the only complaint I have (or more specifically that others have as it doesn't bother me too much actually) is the factory trigger pull is about 6 lbs. This afternoon I started working on it and ran the pair of nuts controlling pull weight to bottom out on the trigger essentially (no change in OT adjustment). I measured the pull at 1.75 lbs. That being said I can bounce this thing off the floor from a foot height, run the action 2-3 x harder than I ever would in operation, etc. Short of treating it like a lawnmower pull start (or that is to say I haven't tried it) I have not been able to get this thing to slam fire or otherwise operate in an unsafe manner. So I 'd be curious what exactly you are doing such that you are making the statement that 2.5 lbs is min safe condition?

    I will probably run it back up to 2 lbs and proceed. My weapon is used only for target shooting and is only loaded when positively controlled and pointing downrange so this particular safety implication is not a major concern for me (particularly considering I am not able to replicate the behavior you guys are seeing). Way to heavy of a platform to lug around hunting (and rifle hunting in Ohio is mostly forbidden anyway). But I'd be really interested to know what you do for testing that caused you this concern. Thanks for any input!
     

    ashjwilliams

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    I also couldn't help but notice that one of the links above recommends not only running the adjustment nuts up against the trigger but then further trimming coils off the oem spring if necessary. I take it that is not a great idea in your opinion?
     

    turbo54

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    As a safety check, I just run the bolt hard, and really "slap" in into the down/locked position. I'll dry fire it every other time, and occasionally turn the safety on/off too. I do this MANY times. Zero failures is the only acceptable answer.

    I had a slam fire at the range once and my heart sank. I was following proper safety protocol, but still, it was super duper uncool.

    Anyway, I'll also drop the rifle on its butt and bounce it off the floor - all the standard checks I think anybody does when testing a trigger.

    Yours sounds pretty safe, but only you can decide. Just consider how someone else may use the rifle, perhaps not knowing the trigger has been tweaked and requires special care. Your son might inherit the rifle. Maybe it'll be pawned when you die and someone else's son will get it...you get the idea.

    Anyway, sounds like there's some variance from one SPR to the next on what is achievable with the trigger. Mine wasn't safe below ~2.5lb. Yours sounds better at 1.75 than mine, for sure.

    When testing it, be sure to try it pointed up, down, sideways, upside down etc etc. That's what bit me when mine slam fired.
     

    ashjwilliams

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    I have also had an unintended discharge at the range before and yes it is not fun. A drop in 22/45 kit that wasn't as drop in as advertised apparently (safely discharged into the ground about 5 ft in front of me, actually engaging the safety is what dropped the hammer!!!).

    I think I will set it at 2 - 2.25 lbs and test it thoroughly. Others will be using the rifle so you make a good point. If I see somebody trying to use it as a hammer (when loaded) I will probably take exception to that though LOL. Thanks for the prompt feedback man.
     

    scudzuki

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    I also couldn't help but notice that one of the links above recommends not only running the adjustment nuts up against the trigger but then further trimming coils off the oem spring if necessary. I take it that is not a great idea in your opinion?

    Trimming coils off a spring increases the spring weight.

    Joe
     
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    scudzuki

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    No.

    A 12" long spring requiring 10lb to compress 1" will still require 10lb to compress 1" if you cut it down to 6".

    That is why its called a spring "constant".

    The universal representation for it is "k".

    Sorry, but you are wrong.

    In the example you have described above, the 6" spring will only compress 1/2" since each coil compresses an equal amount under the force; reducing the number of coils by half will reduce the amount the spring compresses by half, doubling the spring force, since spring force is described as displacement divided by force.

    Do some research to understand it if my explanation is not sufficient, but I assure you, you are wrong.

    Joe
     

    ashjwilliams

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    Trimming coils off a spring increases the spring weight.

    Joe

    While you are correct that the spring stiffness has increased you have also reduced the free length of the spring (and thus the preload is reduced because of a lower delta).

    free L = 10", K = 1 lb/in, preload to 5" length, preload force = 5 lb
    free L = 9", K= 1.11 lb/in, preload to 5" length, preload force = 4.44 lb (trim 1" of coil)

    If my understanding of the spr trigger is correct there is no pre-travel adjustment, and thus the trigger stroke (displacement) is more or less fixed disregarding overtravel? In that case if our objective is to achieve a light trigger pull while still developing as high a preload as possible for safety reasons, lower K is better than higher K. That is trimming coils would not seem like a good idea to me.
     

    scudzuki

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    While you are correct that the spring stiffness has increased you have also reduced the free length of the spring (and thus the preload is reduced because of a lower delta).

    free L = 10", K = 1 lb/in, preload to 5" length, preload force = 5 lb
    free L = 9", K= 1.11 lb/in, preload to 5" length, preload force = 4.44 lb (trim 1" of coil)

    If my understanding of the spr trigger is correct there is no pre-travel adjustment, and thus the trigger stroke (displacement) is more or less fixed disregarding overtravel? In that case if our objective is to achieve a light trigger pull while still developing as high a preload as possible for safety reasons, lower K is better than higher K. That is trimming coils would not seem like a good idea to me.

    Regardless, the sole purpose of the preload in this application is to ensure that the trigger returns (sear engages) fully to prevent slam fires.

    Running the preload screw in far enough to prevent slam fires with the shortened higher rate spring will result in more pull weight, not less, than the full length spring so adjusted.

    Joe
     
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    Sako man

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  • I am to the point that I am not completely new to LR shooting but still a little green. However I do feel that my shooting skills have gotten enough better that my trigger on my SPR is becoming more of a hurdle for me and I think that I need to replace it or maybe adjust it to get the most out of my rifle.

    Any suggestions on drop in replacements or any exp. with adjusting the factory trigger and still keeping it safe.

    Thanks

    Yeah there are not a lot of options, thats for sure. But for my SPR I installed a Rifle Basix, they are crude but the level of adjustment is good and I was able to produce creep free, crisp, light settings. I got mine down to 1.5 lbs and crisp as a carrot. Midway carries them.
     

    Bear24

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    I ended up installing a longer and lighter spring and it took the pull down to 3.75 lbs but at that weight I could feel there was something not right, like a little snag in the pull. I took it to a local smith and the took a file to it for about 10 seconds, put it back together and now it is a perfect 2.5lbs that is smooth as butter and breaks like glass.
     

    Sako man

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  • I ended up installing a longer and lighter spring and it took the pull down to 3.75 lbs but at that weight I could feel there was something not right, like a little snag in the pull. I took it to a local smith and the took a file to it for about 10 seconds, put it back together and now it is a perfect 2.5lbs that is smooth as butter and breaks like glass.

    I bet you had to break off the monkey sperm that they put on the spring, what is that shit.
     

    ashjwilliams

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    Yeah there are not a lot of options, thats for sure. But for my SPR I installed a Rifle Basix, they are crude but the level of adjustment is good and I was able to produce creep free, crisp, light settings. I got mine down to 1.5 lbs and crisp as a carrot. Midway carries them.

    Was this a complete drop in? As in no inletting, etc necessary on the bottom metal?
     

    ashjwilliams

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    I ended up installing a longer and lighter spring and it took the pull down to 3.75 lbs but at that weight I could feel there was something not right, like a little snag in the pull. I took it to a local smith and the took a file to it for about 10 seconds, put it back together and now it is a perfect 2.5lbs that is smooth as butter and breaks like glass.

    I'm still a little surprised by the apparent variance in these triggers/springs...

    I ran my spring adjustment nuts down to just off contact of the trigger and obtained a 1.75 lb pull. I made no adjustment to the OT screw. Despite my best efforts I was not able to generate a slam fire cycling the bolt or otherwise drop the hammer by bouncing the rifle off the buttstock repeatedly. Now I did not take a hammer to the action or anything, and I have no intention of doing so. I increased the weight to 2 - 2.125 lb and will complete a little further bounce testing in a more appropriate environment (currently live in a second floor apt with carpeted floors, etc).

    They really ought to set these closer to 4 lbs from the factory I think people would be substantially less inclined to monkey around with it at that point.
     

    Quarter Horse

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    There are definitely inconsistencies in the limits of adjustment from one trigger to the next. Though springs may partially be the culprit I think it is more due to variations in the angles of the engagement surfaces between the levers. My factory trigger spring would adjust down to a minimum of three pounds. The use of an "Ernie's Target spring" only yielded a four ounce reduction.
     

    SpookM14

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    I will have to try the adjustment method before I fork over the dough for a new trigger. I am used to the creep because of my M1As which have a long two stage trigger in it so its not that big of a change for me. Thanks for the info