high level vaccine skeptics

[Choid]

After consulting several medical dictionaries. I gladly concur with you that the current definition of co-morbidities is any existing disease that can worsen the outcome of a new disease. That goes beyond the traditional killers like cancer, COPD, CHF, etc. and makes sense from a perspective of risk assessment in an acute setting. Thanks you for broadening my horizon.

As far as expected lifetime and remaining quality of life is concerned, I agree with Dr. Malone, that we should use the vaccines globally to protect our elders. We stand culturally on their shoulders and that is even more relevant in less industrialized countries where these elders are instrumental in local governance.

Dr. Malone recommended in a recent interview the following four-pronged approach:

• Offer vaccines globally to older people, especially those with additional risk factors
• Provide (and authorize) early treatment kits
• Offer at-home test that are biased for positives, followed up with a more specific test to determine when early treatment is advised
• Create mobile apps for individual risk assessment to counter the "fear porn"

There is not much of a logical argument you can make against these suggestions, considering the data we have today. However, it is pretty obvious which monetary or power goals would motivate someone to demonize or censor these suggestions.

Concerning the mandates it is important to note that not only "a bunch of people feel discriminated against" but every single person has lost a portion of their liberties. That makes it so disturbing when people who took the vax then shame and persecute those who made a different choice. They do not realize that their compliance will lead to more infringements for ALL. I quoted Dietrich Bonhoeffers poem in reply to one of your other posts, so you know the case I am making.

BTW: Adolf would be jealous if he could see what's going on today. Instead of a religious minority, a substantial portion of the US workers is currently threatened with loosing their livelihoods. Being checked whether the cup you are holding has coffee in it so you are authorized to take your mask off for drinking is the reality today in Australia. And the people who orchestrate this takeover of the free world didn't even have to invade other countries to get everyone under their boot.

Just because that is the definition of co-morbidity does not, of course, mean that people shouldn't be more vigilant about their health. I am a firm believer that everybody should try to be in better shape tomorrow than they were yesterday. They should be concerned about body fat, blood glucose, blood lipids etc. I don't want to diminish that as much as I wanted to make the point that most Americans sadly fall into the category of multiple comorbidities. It is sad, and it is a good lesson that when people talk about that shit, they aren't talking about some fictional American, but about most Americans.

My feeling is slightly different than Dr. Malone's in that I think that people should make their own decisions about vaccination, but that it is worthwhile noting that herd immunity is more costly than vaccinated immunity as far as bad outcomes, and that when dealing with outbreaks we are not dealing with discrete probabilities but contingent ones. In other words, if one person dies in a neighborhood from a car crash, that doesn't raise the probability for others in the neighborhood, but with a disease, as one person dies in an area, the risks do rise, albeit in a small way, for others. So with those things in mind, I think getting vaccinated makes sense, as I have said. But, I don't really care if somebody else makes a different decision, or finds other analyses more convincing. I think I have been pretty consistent on this the whole time.

As to the mandates, I agree with you that they are diminishing of liberty, and that they are bad. I am fortunate in that my state was the first to disallow any mandates, so it is not hard for me to avoid frequenting mandated businesses. I won't travel to states with them, in sympathy, or in annoyance or some mix of the two. You can be sure I will not shame anybody for not being vaccinated. I reserve the right to shame people for saying thing that I think are stupid or harmful.

I note the Bonhoeffer poem, though as somebody who lost a lot of family to the Holocaust, I cannot tell you that I endorse the comparison in any way. I firmly believe that two things can be awful, but not similarly awful, and I prefer to reserve Holocaust comparisons to things like the Holodomor, Pol Pot and other mass genocides. That is a personal stance for me. I don't get too offended by what I see as gratuitous use of the Holocaust, I just don't think it is a great comparison.

 

[Inifinty]

First you don’t have any idea what I’m seeing which shows your ignorance to even make a statement like that. Second, I’ll fill you in. You’re incorrect. I’m not here to change your mind. I hope no one on here gets I’ll from Covid. I’m just telling the facts of my experience.
Same goes for Infinity.

Are you out advocating against the mainstream bullshit that’s landing people in the hospital or the morgue? No you’re not.

Don’t tell me I’m ignorant you pompous ass. You ought to stripped of all privledges for being a brain dead following dolt.

And yeah I’m a little angry cause I landed in the hospital myself not able to breath cause of dumbshits like yourself towing the CDC line.

F/U

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Of course it's a conspiracy of global proportions.
Naturally, you are the select intelligentsia that have worked it out.
That's because you are so fucking special.
If you are so fucken smart, get together and find a solution that doesn't involve cattle drench or prayers.
Spoke to a nurse the other week, that holds the hands of the dying, and listens
to their pleas for the jab they refused.
What's even more disturbing is the fixation on numbers.
"It's only a fraction of what the Spanish flu killed"
That's really twisted.

 

[KZP]

Of course it's a conspiracy of global proportions.
Naturally, you are the select intelligentsia that have worked it out.

Yes.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

What is the condition of the patients that get admitted to your COVID unit?

Well I’m a doctor and have been treating this for almost two years running a Covid unit. I use Bumex and antibiotics in certain cases. Those patients didn’t miraculously get weaned off oxygen and jump out of bed. You’re arguing shit don’t know about. Keep reading all you want meaning I’ll keep doing what I can to save lives and keep people off vents because that’s the goal.

Blood ox level? Or any other stats you can provide.
Are you seeing them when they first walk in and have just sub normal oxygen level and mild fever?
No one in this area is getting admitted without really low oxygen level, high fever and other symptoms. Usually they are beyond help without divine intervention.

 

[alpine44]

First you don’t have any idea what I’m seeing which shows your ignorance to even make a statement like that. Second, I’ll fill you in. You’re incorrect. I’m not here to change your mind. I hope no one on here gets I’ll from Covid. I’m just telling the facts of my experience.
Same goes for Infinity.

Yes, I do not know what you are seeing and I do not have the time or permission to visit hundreds of hospitals, test labs, etc. to figure out what is really going on. Can you give us some rough numbers from your experience without compromising anyone's personal health data?

If yes, I will make a list of pertinent questions.

ETA: Got beat again with my input, but that is a good sign for this discussion.

 

[candyx]

If covid was seriously bad the government would have shut down the southern border instead of requesting hundreds of thousands of unvaxed illegal aliens to charge across it. Furthermore if covid was serious the government wouldn't never of had bused and flown these unvaxed people into every state in the Union. Sounds like the drug companies are the ones pushing the vax mandates after what the government has done at the southern border cause it doesn't make sense.

 

[Choid]

If covid was seriously bad the government would have shut down the southern border instead of requesting hundreds of thousands of unvaxed illegal aliens to charge across it. Furthermore if covid was serious the government wouldn't never of had bused and flown these unvaxed people into every state in the Union. Sounds like the drug companies are the ones pushing the vax mandates after what the government has done at the southern border cause it doesn't make sense.

I realize this isn't an argument people accept on here, but the only two drug companies involved in this that have that kind of lobbying power are Pfizer and JnJ. The way their executives and shareholders profit is by increase in stock prices, not by one time earnings pops. Both stocks have underperformed the S&P, so it hasn't been profitable to any of the individuals who are supposed to be part of this cabal. Now, it has been profitable for Moderna management and shareholders, but they never had the lobbying power to effect the kind of conspiracy you are talking about. Basically, if the question is cui bono, and the answer is nobody, then maybe it isn't the right question, tasty as it might seem.

 

[db2000]

Yes, I do not know what you are seeing and I do not have the time or permission to visit hundreds of hospitals, test labs, etc. to figure out what is really going on. Can you give us some rough numbers from your experience without compromising anyone's personal health data?

If yes, I will make a list of pertinent questions.

ETA: Got beat again with my input, but that is a good sign for this discussion.

Sounds like you two have it all figured out. Good luck with that.

 

[Baron23]

hahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Baron23]

This shit is too hilarious!

 

[Choid]

View attachment 7722414

This shit is too hilarious!

To be fair, there are plenty of probablility experts who can deal with the numbers better than doctors, but when it comes to treatment or experience, yeah... The problem is that a lot of people have absolutely no bullshit detector, or it is on such high blink that everything is a lie.

But really, most of us feel that way when the internet goes on about something within our professional sphere. I haven't noticed it stopping anybody yet.

 

[chrome]

I haven't read all these replies so if this was said already good for the OP.

But if the same scrutiny that IVM has been assaulted with was equally applied to the vaccines, we wouldn't have vaccines right now, especially given current state of the literature and the 30 plus year of record safety using IVM on and off-label. Specifically to COVID:

Is IVM a miracle drug? Absolutely not.

Is it almost professional maleficence that the USA and the Western World hasn't used 1% of the trillions we spent in "covid relief" to prioritize IVM research? Bet your fucking ass.

The mechanical, causal link to why IVM makes sense to explore is easily understood, its cosmically safe, and is super cheap.

 

[candyx]

Last time I had a medical exam the Chinese Lady told me face the wall and cough as she put her hand in my pants. Why did she make me face the wall , its been bugging the hell out of me......

 

[Baron23]

To be fair, there are plenty of probablility experts who can deal with the numbers better than doctors, but when it comes to treatment or experience, yeah... The problem is that a lot of people have absolutely no bullshit detector, or it is on such high blink that everything is a lie.

But really, most of us feel that way when the internet goes on about something within our professional sphere. I haven't noticed it stopping anybody yet.

You do have a sense of humor...don't you?

;-) haha

Oh, and that depends on the kind of doctor. I would offer that many doctors who do research in public health are indeed expert statisticians and need to be or their papers would be crucified during peer review.

Carry on, gentlemen.

 

[Inifinty]

Sounds like you two have it all figured out. Good luck with that.

Bumex really? What does that have in relation to budesonide for the treatment on ARDS doc?

If you are a Dr. why don't you explain in a sentence or two why inhaled budesonide delivered by nebulizer might be different for something like covid than other steriods.

Been on since 3/20 huh? Sure you're not just a paid troll instead of a Dr?

 

[Inifinty]

View attachment 7722414

This shit is too hilarious!

Not our fault you like guns and confine your education to "fillintheblank for dummies" books.

Let us not lump everyone into the same IQ range because they enjoy firearms shall we?

Another 3/20 wonder.

 

[candyx]

I brought a Harvard Tie for $49.98 in the gift shop and tell mature women at bars I'm a gynecologist , you should smell my fingers the Tie works every single time.

 

[Choid]

You do have a sense of humor...don't you?

;-) haha

Oh, and that depends on the kind of doctor. I would offer that many doctors who do research in public health are indeed expert statisticians and need to be or their papers would be crucified during peer review.

Carry on, gentlemen.

WTF is a sense of humor? I have a joke for you, and I bet you are the only one on the Hide who will get it -- A gentile mother has been cooking all day for her son, and he calls her at 5pm to say "Mom, I can't make it for dinner." She responds, "OK."

And of course public health docs are great with statistics.

 

[Baron23]

Not our fault you like guns and confine your education to "fillintheblank for dummies" books.

Let us not lump everyone into the same IQ range because they enjoy firearms shall we?

hahaha....you don't seem to have a sense of humor either! hahaha

 

[Inifinty]

hahaha....you don't seem to have a sense of humor either! hahaha

Shit ain't funny at all.

People are in the morgue right now and people are losing their livelihoods over medical maleficence that nobody seems to have the balls to stand up to.

 

[Baron23]

Shit ain't funny at all.

People are in the morgue right now and people are losing their livelihoods over medical maleficence that nobody seems to have the balls to stand up to.

Alright...you just had to keep on fucking pressing it. I now rather agree with our doctor... @db2000....you are a presumptuous ass who thinks you actually know something about the people on a fucking internet forum who you just need to get in their grill.

I'm absolutely not going to tell you the dreadful impact this virus has had on my family and friends....because....I DON'T GIVE A FUCK WHAT YOU THINK.

Now, if you would, however, like to share with the classroom just what your bona fides are with regard to clinical and epidemology medicine , I'm sure there are many would would be interested. But I'm not one of them.

oh...ok, I feel much better.

 

[Inifinty]

Wipe the schmeg off your chin.

It's showing.

 

[alpine44]

Just because that is the definition of co-morbidity does not, of course, mean that people shouldn't be more vigilant about their health. I am a firm believer that everybody should try to be in better shape tomorrow than they were yesterday. They should be concerned about body fat, blood glucose, blood lipids etc. I don't want to diminish that as much as I wanted to make the point that most Americans sadly fall into the category of multiple comorbidities. It is sad, and it is a good lesson that when people talk about that shit, they aren't talking about some fictional American, but about most Americans.

My feeling is slightly different than Dr. Malone's in that I think that people should make their own decisions about vaccination, but that it is worthwhile noting that herd immunity is more costly than vaccinated immunity as far as bad outcomes, and that when dealing with outbreaks we are not dealing with discrete probabilities but contingent ones. In other words, if one person dies in a neighborhood from a car crash, that doesn't raise the probability for others in the neighborhood, but with a disease, as one person dies in an area, the risks do rise, albeit in a small way, for others. So with those things in mind, I think getting vaccinated makes sense, as I have said. But, I don't really care if somebody else makes a different decision, or finds other analyses more convincing. I think I have been pretty consistent on this the whole time.

As to the mandates, I agree with you that they are diminishing of liberty, and that they are bad. I am fortunate in that my state was the first to disallow any mandates, so it is not hard for me to avoid frequenting mandated businesses. I won't travel to states with them, in sympathy, or in annoyance or some mix of the two. You can be sure I will not shame anybody for not being vaccinated. I reserve the right to shame people for saying thing that I think are stupid or harmful.

I note the Bonhoeffer poem, though as somebody who lost a lot of family to the Holocaust, I cannot tell you that I endorse the comparison in any way. I firmly believe that two things can be awful, but not similarly awful, and I prefer to reserve Holocaust comparisons to things like the Holodomor, Pol Pot and other mass genocides. That is a personal stance for me. I don't get too offended by what I see as gratuitous use of the Holocaust, I just don't think it is a great comparison.

I think the jury is still out on the cost of vaccination vs. herd immunity. The main problem is that most US data is essentially meaningless. Whether this is the cause of stupidity or malicious intent does not change the fact that it should be seriously concerning how a society that has a vehicle running on Mars cannot provide a meaningful and unassailable count of cases, fatalities, and vaccine complications.

I cited a 0.04% Covid fatality rate before and that number came from dividing the "died causally from Covid" cases (204 from March 2020 to March 2021) in my home town in Germany by the number of inhabitants (~500k). Here in the US, the CDC admits that they did not bother to distinguish between 'died with' and 'died because of Covid'. Then, Pfizer wipes out the control group and in parallel, the cases in VAERS could be either overreported or underreported. That's some serious dumb fuckery or fuckery for profit. I'll leave it up to you, which one you consider to be the more likely reason.

I apologize, if I gave you the impression that I wanted to trivialize the suffering of your ancestors. As a descendent of the people who committed the Holocaust, I am simply very concerned about a society loosing their collective minds under certain political forces exactly because of the magnitude of the resulting atrocities.

When we look at the genocides you listed, we typically associate names like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot with the end result. We focus on the evil leaders. What we often ignore is that these villains released the villain in thousands if not millions of 'normal' people. That's why I get very nervous when censorship, discrimination, and persecution of dissidents becomes popular. By the time these trends become so awful that they are in the league of the mass atrocities you mentioned, it is way too late to talk about this.

I cannot undo what my folks did to your folks. The only thing I can do is my best to not let this happen again by making people aware of where the roads could end that they are so eager to travel. "Wehret den Anfaengen" - "Resist the beginnings".

 

[Adam B]

A very good friend of mine works for a company that does all of the statistics for all of the major hospitals in the midwest. Amazingly since Covid hit all the leading causes of death dropped to almost zero and Covid has since lead the way. He has been doing this for over 20 years and said he has never seen anything like this. If you don't think for a second this is total manipulation of the numbers and a money grab then you are a fool. I am sorry that fat people and people with compromised immune systems are getting hit hard but it is what it is. Please don't lump the rest of us into this bullshit. My 16-year-old kid tested positive for Covid 3 weeks ago and I took care of her the entire time (a whopping 4 days) and have zero symptoms as do both of my younger sons. I refuse to get them vaccinated based on the fact that there were essentially no trials and the idiots that have been vaccinated seem to be getting covid again.

 

[Choid]

I think the jury is still out on the cost of vaccination vs. herd immunity. The main problem is that most US data is essentially meaningless. Whether this is the cause of stupidity or malicious intent does not change the fact that it should be seriously concerning how a society that has a vehicle running on Mars cannot provide a meaningful and unassailable count of cases, fatalities, and vaccine complications.

I cited a 0.04% Covid fatality rate before and that number came from dividing the "died causally from Covid" cases (204 from March 2020 to March 2021) in my home town in Germany by the number of inhabitants (~500k). Here in the US, the CDC admits that they did not bother to distinguish between 'died with' and 'died because of Covid'. Then, Pfizer wipes out the control group and in parallel, the cases in VAERS could be either overreported or underreported. That's some serious dumb fuckery or fuckery for profit. I'll leave it up to you, which one you consider the more likely reason.

I apologize, if I gave you the impression that I wanted to trivialize the suffering of your ancestors. As a descendent of the people who committed the Holocaust, I am simply very concerned about a society loosing their collective minds under certain political forces because of the magnitude of the atrocities.

When we look at the genocides you listed, we typically associate names like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot with the end result. We focus on the evil leaders. What we often ignore is that these villains released the villain in thousands if not millions of 'normal' people. That's why I get very nervous when censorship, discrimination, and persecution of dissidents becomes popular. By the time these trends become so awful that they are in the league of the mass atrocities you mentioned, it is way too late to talk about this.

I cannot undo what my folks did to your folks. The only thing I can do is my best to not let this happen again by making people aware of where the roads could end that they are so eager to travel. "Wehret den Anfaengen" - "Resist the beginnings".

Thanks. I don't hold a grudge!

I will tell you what I think happened as far as "fuckery." I think a lot of political activists and politicians saw Covid as a very useful wedge issue going into the 2020 elections, and they got addicted to what they could do with it. Likewise, I think people got very wrapped up in the far and division that came with the pandemic and its politicization. And I think all of that exacerbated a situation that had long been developing in this country where nobody is willing to believe information that is not coming from people who agree with them on other important issues, so we all live in our own half reality/half non reality. I do think the politicians created this distrust. But I try not to take that to mean that everybody who I see as dishonest in one way or wrong in one way is wrong in every way.

I guess as you say, we will find out in the end. And I do agree with you that the push to marginalize non vaccinated people is problematic or worse. I guess I even see how that could lead to something like a mass apartheid society or worse, but I think it is less likely than maybe others do. That said, as I think I have been clear, I am personally not willing to participate in this marginalization, which is really, in my opinion, the best any of us can do on an individual level.

I've had the conversation you mention, about the willingness of the general public to be awful, with many people, here and offline. I have to say that I am very upfront with my feelings about it with you guys, and with friends, sometimes now ex friends, on the left, and I have not come across the hatred some others describe in many people, but when I do it is disturbing in the extreme. I may be naive in believing that we will generally get through this, and maybe worse, without atrocities.

I guess the TLDR version of this is I think Covid is pretty damn bad and has been handled even worse, and that, among other things, has increased the distrust for each other and for information, but I think the way through that is not by hardening ourselves against each other and against reality, but by trying our best to find each where we can.

 

[db2000]

Bumex really? What does that have in relation to budesonide for the treatment on ARDS doc?

If you are a Dr. why don't you explain in a sentence or two why inhaled budesonide delivered by nebulizer might be different for something like covid than other steriods.

Been on since 3/20 huh? Sure you're not just a paid troll instead of a Dr?

I was driving and saw “bumetanide” not “budesonide”. We use diuretics sometimes but again they’re no miracle. They have their place. ICS have shown worse outcomes previously in the hospital setting with Covid. In vitro studies have shown anti-viral properties and some RCTs are going on now so maybe the pendulum will swing it into favor…just like systemic steroids that were balked at initially when data was limited. This is a learning curve and recommendations and research has been fluid. Currently we don’t use budesonide or other ICS routinely for hospitalized patients. Not that I need to justify to some stranger on a gun forum but I know the owner of Pigg River Precision locally here and he knows what I do. Feel free to track all that down or my credentials are public. All 50 people or so I’ve done transactions with on here should be able to get you my info
Please tell everyone how your an expert in the field of medicine. I’m sure it’s an interesting story.

 

[alpine44]

Sounds like you two have it all figured out. Good luck with that.

You could get me and others on the right track by providing the number of people who have entered your 'ward', grouped by the condition they were in, and the end results for these groups. Yes, that would be anecdotal evidence but still more convincing than the "you're going to die" comments.

 

[LawnMM]

Doctors: "I'm a doctor, with a medical degree, you should listen to what I say."

Also Doctors: *Kill 250,000 people per year by doing dumb shit*

 

[Choid]

Pretty sure we have just reached peak fucking stupid.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Doctors: "I'm a doctor, with a medical degree, you should listen to what I say."

Also Doctors: *Kill 250,000 people per year by doing dumb shit*

They also have a license to "practice" medicine.

 

[Jigstick]

In my ICUs our Covid census is very low. And of the patients we do have 70% are vaccinated

 

[BLEE]

I don't care what the reported statistics say, my brother-in-law is an MD. He says he's seen very few unvaccinated C19 patients in the hospitals he makes rounds in. He openly states that the majority of hospitalized C19 patients that he and his peers have seen are previously double vaccinated. I'm in NW Louisiana and I think the media is straight up lying about hospitalizations.

 

[chrome]

I work in healthcare, not that it should matter, but a terminal degree in health outcomes. I also teach doctorate learners. I do data, by no means an "expert" (always be skeptical with anyone who gives that label out) but good 'nuff. But the three most important points I've distilled from the last 18 months of covid and vaccine deployment:

1.) Our leaders, past and present, have made most of their decisions out of fear, laziness, and/or ego. In May 2020 we had multi-site regression analyses from multiple countries showing that this disease disproportionately impacted the elderly, morbidly obese, cardiovascular disease/lung disease ridden patients. We should have done an extremely HARD reverse quarantine of these parts of the population, and saved the economic, long-term health devastation that is on-going via lockdowns.

2.) We ignored and/or violated the biggest, most fundamental rule of population health: you do not try to maximize the health/wellness of the population through a single variable (i.e. covid infection.) Our country faces a pandemic every 6-7 years, roughly speaking, and we absolutely threw out the "book" in our response to COVID. We ignored the impact of short term strategy at an unmeasurable cost to long-term outcomes.

3.) Attempting to control/mitigate a respiratory disease, that has an exponential amount of animal reservoirs, continued selection pressure driving a multitude of variants calling into question the durability of said vaccines, with a single modality (vaccines), to me is an absolutely fundamental fucking miss. (reference my earlier comments on earlier faster research on other pharmaceutical interventions).

 

[Pester]

I was driving and saw “bumetanide” not “budesonide”. We use diuretics sometimes but again they’re no miracle. They have their place. ICS have shown worse outcomes previously in the hospital setting with Covid. In vitro studies have shown anti-viral properties and some RCTs are going on now so maybe the pendulum will swing it into favor…just like systemic steroids that were balked at initially when data was limited. This is a learning curve and recommendations and research has been fluid. Currently we don’t use budesonide or other ICS routinely for hospitalized patients. Not that I need to justify to some stranger on a gun forum but I know the owner of Pigg River Precision locally here and he knows what I do. Feel free to track all that down or my credentials are public. All 50 people or so I’ve done transactions with on here should be able to get you my info
Please tell everyone how your an expert in the field of medicine. I’m sure it’s an interesting story.

“This is a learning curve……”

And I think this is the most universally true statement from my Covid experience (both personal and work)

While I have trust with some individual front line docs I no longer trust information from places like the cdc, nih, UC anywhere, who etc. When you tell the public to follow the science and there is little to no real science to follow do you think you gain credibility?

As a care delivery person are you really so arrogant that you think the great unwashed masses can’t figure out that statements like “ the data indicates that…”, the evidence is guiding us to….” , “the vast majority of medical professionals believe “, etc is not science? We all know that it is not settled science.

Do Fauci et al think the data is accurate? It is not! While I don’t choose to get into a debate on the details I can tell that front line care delivery folks message the data in a way that benefits them just as the IRS does.

If you can’t trust the raw data and you can’t trust the source what are you left with. It’s the medical community at large that is guilty. Where were the docs screaming “this is not science “. They were pretty hard to find.

I get it….. the scientific process has to start somewhere and you have to move from more unknowns to more knowns. But just say that and don’t parse words in hope deflecting.

I chose to get vax’d and sure enough spent a week in the hospital trying to get out alive. But you know what? Most of the nation and especially the state of ca says my vax card means more to them than my new found natural protections. So when I get contacted by some $10/hour government employee trying to do contact tracing a month after the fact my emotional reaction is to ask them …. Are you thirsty? Because I have a big cold glass of SHUT THE FUCK UP for you.

Again …… losing credibility.

Last point here… why the focus on getting vax’d? Fauci said no mask. Then wear a mask and then to wear 2 masks. Those masks actually do little good. Why not make kn 95’s or n95’s easy and cheap to get? And tell people to wash hands and don’t touch your face. The data that is the same level of science that our public health “experts “ push says that those two actions will yield almost the same level of positive results as ge

It sounds like there are some docs on this thread and you seem thoughtful and measured in your replies. When I say that lots of care delivery folks don’t always provide accurate data I am not speaking about you. Over a decade of providing data, information and solutions to the board of directors for a chain of hospitals with over 223,000 employees across 8 states has led me to see first hand that far too many front line care deliver folks seem to struggle with honesty. Not all but more than I wanted to believe.

I got my polio vax, got my Covid vax and will likely get a shingles vax. I am not against them. But no one demanded a polio vax card so I could travel. This is no different and there is far less real science with Covid.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

The good doctor hasn't stated what the condition of the people are when they finally get admitted to his unit. Nor has he stated what his hospital is doing for them before they get to him.
Policies and procedures.

 

[Darayavaus]

Ever notice how 9 out of 10 of these threads are started by people that have signed up since this shit show began

*you have been designated as a thought criminal for questioning the official propaganda disseminated by the information commissar who was assigned to us last year.

US Army cyber chief outlines ten-year plan for information warfare

Lt. Gen. Stephen Fogarty sketched a road map for how his command can transition to information warfare.

www.c4isrnet.com

 

[Darayavaus]

Are you out advocating against the mainstream bullshit that’s landing people in the hospital or the morgue? No you’re not.

Don’t tell me I’m ignorant you pompous ass. You ought to stripped of all privledges for being a brain dead following dolt.

And yeah I’m a little angry cause I landed in the hospital myself not able to breath cause of dumbshits like yourself towing the CDC line.

F/U

the same kind of f'ers killed my mother last year. they refused to do anything except put her on oxygen and then allowed her to suffocate because they would not treat her effectively. it's almost like they *wanted* to kill off the older generation and then capitalize on the turmoil to inject **** into the rest of the population. When the rest of the population didnt comply willingly, the politicians and bureaucrat's disguises came off and Nazi armbands went on. f them, their brainless woke apologists, and all the Dr Mengeles they own, who apparently have so much time on their hands that it seems their real job is to repeat the bs all over social media to promulgate the shot.

 

[Aftermath]

This has to be the umpteenth thread with the same people, aligning on the same side of the issues, arguing the same points. Makes perfect sense to look for medical information on a rifle forum! haha

Carry on

Sorta like all the threads about which refrigerator or lawnmower is gooder....on a rifle forum.

 

[EddieNFL]

This has to be the umpteenth thread with the same people, aligning on the same side of the issues, arguing the same points. Makes perfect sense to look for medical information on a rifle forum! haha

Carry on

View attachment 7722237

I was on the range most of yesterday. Anything new with the virus?

 

[Threadcutter308]

I was on the range most of yesterday. Anything new with the virus?

Nope. SOSDD.

 

[pmclaine]

View attachment 7722412

hahahahahahahahahaha

Using that photo just adds to the bullshit.

Stupid shit like that show is where most Americans get their "Medical degrees" as well they watch shows about the miliatry or cops and become instant experts.

The resistance to this shit though in some way mirrors TV.

The shit on TV is obviously ridiculous if you do the slightest bit of research and apply critical thinking.....as well.....the CV19 plandemic is also obviously ridiculous if you do the slightest research and apply critical thinking.

 

[pmclaine]

View attachment 7722414

This shit is too hilarious!

Doctors are not infallible.

They should have recognized that my sons five repetitive strep diagnoses were leading toward trouble.....they didnt because what he ended up with doesnt exist.....trust me it does and his life has been changed.

When we told my daughters pediatrician her bed wetting and water drinking were not normal she dismissed us. When we demanded a blood test over her objections because I had done one Google search on the internet of I kid you not "Drinks a lot of water and wets the bed" I wanted to kick that doctor bitch so in the cunt when she called in tears saying we had to get my daughter to the hospital ASAP because her blood sugars were she told me approaching 700.

Keep thinking you know it all.

 

[pmclaine]

I think the jury is still out on the cost of vaccination vs. herd immunity. The main problem is that most US data is essentially meaningless. Whether this is the cause of stupidity or malicious intent does not change the fact that it should be seriously concerning how a society that has a vehicle running on Mars cannot provide a meaningful and unassailable count of cases, fatalities, and vaccine complications.

I cited a 0.04% Covid fatality rate before and that number came from dividing the "died causally from Covid" cases (204 from March 2020 to March 2021) in my home town in Germany by the number of inhabitants (~500k). Here in the US, the CDC admits that they did not bother to distinguish between 'died with' and 'died because of Covid'. Then, Pfizer wipes out the control group and in parallel, the cases in VAERS could be either overreported or underreported. That's some serious dumb fuckery or fuckery for profit. I'll leave it up to you, which one you consider to be the more likely reason.

I apologize, if I gave you the impression that I wanted to trivialize the suffering of your ancestors. As a descendent of the people who committed the Holocaust, I am simply very concerned about a society loosing their collective minds under certain political forces exactly because of the magnitude of the resulting atrocities.

When we look at the genocides you listed, we typically associate names like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot with the end result. We focus on the evil leaders. What we often ignore is that these villains released the villain in thousands if not millions of 'normal' people. That's why I get very nervous when censorship, discrimination, and persecution of dissidents becomes popular. By the time these trends become so awful that they are in the league of the mass atrocities you mentioned, it is way too late to talk about this.

I cannot undo what my folks did to your folks. The only thing I can do is my best to not let this happen again by making people aware of where the roads could end that they are so eager to travel. "Wehret den Anfaengen" - "Resist the beginnings".

The conditioning we are being subject to is exactly what permitted the Holocaust.

Set the population or the perpetrator aside....this is just plain psychology and training.

Those that deny it ignore the possible future at their own peril and will perhaps regret that at some point.

Decisions will have to be made.

If people continue to implicate themselves they will become so invested they will be no different from what was once the "kindly policeman" that finds themselves on the edge of a pit with a rifle shooting people wondering "How the fuck did I get here"

People....the 20th Century actually happened. It was such a short time ago. Its retarded it has been forgotten.

 

[pmclaine]

I cannot undo what my folks did to your folks. The only thing I can do is my best to not let this happen again by making people aware of where the roads could end that they are so eager to travel. "Wehret den Anfaengen" - "Resist the beginnings".

You didnt do shit.

Nice to acknowledge the past but your generation has no guilt.

Guilt for the past is being used as a tool to end debate and freeze us in place unable to discuss or dispute the agenda of the people wanting to do again what was done before.

 

[pmclaine]

Thanks. I don't hold a grudge!

I will tell you what I think happened as far as "fuckery." I think a lot of political activists and politicians saw Covid as a very useful wedge issue going into the 2020 elections, and they got addicted to what they could do with it. Likewise, I think people got very wrapped up in the far and division that came with the pandemic and its politicization. And I think all of that exacerbated a situation that had long been developing in this country where nobody is willing to believe information that is not coming from people who agree with them on other important issues, so we all live in our own half reality/half non reality. I do think the politicians created this distrust. But I try not to take that to mean that everybody who I see as dishonest in one way or wrong in one way is wrong in every way.

I guess as you say, we will find out in the end. And I do agree with you that the push to marginalize non vaccinated people is problematic or worse. I guess I even see how that could lead to something like a mass apartheid society or worse, but I think it is less likely than maybe others do. That said, as I think I have been clear, I am personally not willing to participate in this marginalization, which is really, in my opinion, the best any of us can do on an individual level.

I've had the conversation you mention, about the willingness of the general public to be awful, with many people, here and offline. I have to say that I am very upfront with my feelings about it with you guys, and with friends, sometimes now ex friends, on the left, and I have not come across the hatred some others describe in many people, but when I do it is disturbing in the extreme. I may be naive in believing that we will generally get through this, and maybe worse, without atrocities.

I guess the TLDR version of this is I think Covid is pretty damn bad and has been handled even worse, and that, among other things, has increased the distrust for each other and for information, but I think the way through that is not by hardening ourselves against each other and against reality, but by trying our best to find each where we can.

Oh God. This fuckstain again....

People are not just dismissing information because it disagrees with their view.

They are dismissing it because you do not have to have a keenly developed sense of skepticism to realize we are being lied to.

I can tell fall is coming because the leaves are changing.

I can tell Fauci and Psaki are lying because their lips are moving.

 

[pmclaine]

In my ICUs our Covid census is very low. And of the patients we do have 70% are vaccinated

Hospitals are claiming "Our beds are full"

That is taken like "Oh my gosh this has never happened"

Truth be told hospitals are for profit businesses.

Any hospital administrator that does not keep their beds full is probably going to get fired.

Face facts helping you is secondary.

Making money is primary.

Got an empty bed?

Find a reason to fill it.

Got all the beds full?

Start putting stretchers in the hallway and bill it the same.

Ill agree hospital workers are overworked....why increase staff when you can keep costs down by adding hours on the staff you have. Pay only one set of benefits instead of two.

You can still bill the same through insurance as if two workers were present.

Our medical care has been ruined by putting barriers between patient and care provider.

There have been benefits in creating very specialized care but at the cost that it limits availability and increases costs.

Speaking way out of my knowledge base as usual but fuck it.

 

[EddieNFL]

Using that photo just adds to the bullshit.

Stupid shit like that show is where most Americans get their "Medical degrees" as well they watch shows about the miliatry or cops and become instant experts.

The resistance to this shit though in some way mirrors TV.

The shit on TV is obviously ridiculous if you do the slightest bit of research and apply critical thinking.....as well.....the CV19 plandemic is also obviously ridiculous if you do the slightest research and apply critical thinking.

I don't believe anything I see/hear on TV. I earned my PhDs on the net...like everyone else.

 

[Choid]

Good to see that the subject moved quickly from "high level vaccine skeptics" to the general rantings of lunatics. The people mentioned in the article would disavow this batshit crazy stuff in a second, but here it is absolute received truth. I remember why I left.

 

[BufordTJustice]

Good to see that the subject moved quickly from "high level vaccine skeptics" to the general rantings of lunatics. The people mentioned in the article would disavow this batshit crazy stuff in a second, but here it is absolute received truth. I remember why I left.

You left...?