Looong solid bullet.. Opinions?

[gcoulsey]

Ok,
Went to a shoot show yesterday, and bought some solid
Bullets to try.
The company making them is local to me, is relatively new,
And has little info on the bullets at the moment..

According to the guy on the stand, they have been producing/selling .338 solids
To the military for a while, and have only just started playing around with 30.cal so they don't have a solid database yet.. Still testing..

ANYWAY.. They were cheap, so I took x100 to try.
They are 175grn solid bronze/brass
1.507" length
.885" base-ogive
and have a driving band along the shank to reduce bearing surface friction
Because of the length. (?)

These suckers are pretty much same length as the 208amax!!

I'll try and add a pic, I'm curious to hear any opinions/predictions
On how these might perform??? (out of a 26" 1/10twist)

LEFT 178 AMAX. MIDDLE 175grn solid. RIGHT 208 AMAX

 

[fastex500]

Re: Looong solid bullet.. Opinions?

Looks really close.... You can use the old cut neck case method and measure coal for it. Just cut 3 or 4 vertical slits in the neck of a sized piece of brass, place the bullet in so it just holds, then chamber it in your rifle gently.

Eject it and measure the coal and you'll have a good idea of total length touching the lands. Take the measurement multiple times to make sure it is correct, then back off that max coal..... Just watch for compressed powder if your barrel throat is short.

 

[Ratwhiskers]

Re: Looong solid bullet.. Opinions?

Hi Giles

Fastex's advice is sound, or you'll need something like a hornady aol gauge.
The bands are needed due to the bullet being made of brass or an alloy of same and a little harder on the bore then copper.
I would look at some of the other solid bullet type data, and be aware that you may have pressure spikes near the top end of the loads. An e-snail to John Masefield at fcsa.uk may be of use.
Also on your ground, if these things skip over the backstop they'll not want to stop for a while.

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: Looong solid bullet.. Opinions?

Yep I've got all the OAL data now (I have all the hornady kit, I just hadn't got that measured before I posted here

)

I knew they were going to seat deep (for a 2.80" COAL) because the ogive is so much higher up on these things, so all that extra bullet is stuck down inside the case.
my main concern was the loss of case capacity and possible higher pressures with the lower charge-weights.. Also, how they react down the barrel,
Are they faster than copper jackets? Cleaner? More abrasive?

I just don't know if I can push them fast enough to be worthwhile because of the case capacity loss. (without switching to more dense powders and messing about)

I normally load a 10thou jump when I'm starting a new load,
But I'm keeping these at mag length because the vendor guy insisted they were 'designed' to be at 2.80" fair enough.

I'll send that chap an email as you suggest, see if he can offer any tips on solids,
And yes, these are going to ricochet like crazy!!!
Just have to make sure the steel plates slow em down good

Keep the info coming, ive used most of the mid-heavyweight bullets out there, but it's my first experience with solids!!

 

[Ratwhiskers]

Re: Looong solid bullet.. Opinions?

We've not done a lot of "solid's" testing and assumption can be the mother of all fuckups, but l would think as brass is harder it may slow the transit in the barrel. As for fouling, every barrel acts differantly so you'll just have to see how that goes l think.
With loss of case capacity comes lower velocity, you may be able to use a differant powder to help a little with the speed, but again watch your pressures. I know with the .50's that the brass rounds are more agressive on barrels, but hey how much fun are you going to get before you need a new pipe.
I wouldn't get too hung up on mag length, as l've seen so many times that a load will "shoot where it shoots" and some folks have got all bent out of shape trying to make it do otherwise.... lf it turns out that it shoots best as a "single stuffer" then so be it.
And on a final note, use the soft points for the crow nests and leave the solids for the metal (speed cameras on the A17 make a good alternative).

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: Looong solid bullet.. Opinions?

You mean a crow sat on its nest won't stop a 208amax?
Lol, and I SWEAR the speed camera incident wasn't me.. I was at home all night..

The other reason for mag length, is if they are seated any longer the case mouth is over the recessed part of the shank, so there is only part of the driving band actually sealing the neck.

I managed to get some test rounds off last night, but initial results are less than impressive. velocity seems to be low for the amount of powder I'm burning,
And accuracy was never better than 1.5" @100
pretty piss poor.
No pressure signs yet though, so I'll load up higher on the next OCW and see if these things start to close up.
It sure would be nice to know what BC these things are..

 

[Ratwhiskers]

Re: Looong solid bullet.. Opinions?

Hmm...... l think l'd start at the base of the frontal band and back the bullet into the case 10thou's a time for about 50thou and see how she runs.
lf you've got any sand bags l'd put up a big soft backstop and dig some spents out and have a good look at them to see how they are engraving to the bore.
lt's a pity they didn't do the bc's for them, bit of poor work really. You can look on here for the math and a chrono will get it you but it can be a ball ache.

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: Looong solid bullet.. Opinions?

I know some solids plate the bore pretty heavily, depending upon the alloy, regardless of pressure or velocity. How are they doing as far as plating?

Jeffvn

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: Looong solid bullet.. Opinions?

Well I finally got an email reply from the manufacturer with some load info..
He suggested Vihtn550 as that is what they use for their military stuff.

I already have 1kg of n550 so I loaded up and tried a quick OCW last night,
I am pleased to say they shot REALLY nice with the powder change,
Several groups were just stacking bullets in one hole.

I just have to confirm the node and then load a batch up to test at distance.
No chrono data yet, but even at 46.6grn there's no hint of pressure yet (and I always seem to hit pressure early compared to other peoples loads..)

I have no idea on the state of the bore yet, best I can do is a visual inspection with cleaning rod/white patch and a torch down the muzzle. (when I next clean it)

Retrieving bullets isn't an option yet, I'm currently shooting into a steep bank of rabbit/badger holes.. These things will be bouncing down underground tunnels out of reach.

What solvents would recommend for cleaning?
I currently use the KG brand, like them a lot,
But do I need something special for these bronze/alloys???

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: Looong solid bullet.. Opinions?

Forgot to add..
They DO have some of their BC data on the JBM website..
Listed under 'Extreme Performance'

The 175grn I am using is listed at .570 BC (G1)
Which is pretty smokin' IF the data is accurate..

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Looong solid bullet.. Opinions?

More familiar solid bronze bullet makers advise users to jump the bullet. I think they are dealing with pressure spike issues as the bullet enters the rifling. I would hedge that bet by starting out with a reduced load. Rifling twist is predicated on bullet lengths/bearing lengths. If the 1:10 handles a 208 of similar length, I think you'll be alright.

Just as moly reduces bore drag and causes lower pressures and velocities, more bore resistance could do the opposite.

Greg