Suppressors  New to suppressors, LLC or Trust and why

ColbyLang

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Apr 23, 2012
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As the heading says I'm new to suppressors. I would like to get one for the new AI AE I'm buying myself for Christmas. I realize that everything involving the government will take time, so I'm in no rush to get one ordered. I'd like to find out which is easier to use, an LLC or a trust. I would also like to know the benefits/disadvantages of each. Can anyone steer me in the right direction? Thanks in advance for any and all help provided.

C.L.
 

Capt Academy

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My LLC was super simple since it was already in place! Every officer listed on the LLC can have the suppressor is their possession since they are part of the LLC.
 

ColbyLang

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Ok, how about this. My brother in law already has an LLC set up for this purpose. Could he just add me as an officer of his LLC to cover me as well? Would the ATF have anything to say negatively about this?
 

KYS

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How is the new executive order gonna affect all this?

As it is proposed….. every single person will need to be verified by pictures and fingerprints. And you will need a CLEO signature to prove you are in compliance of current law (not a felon).
It's all stupid! I hope that it gets voted down. They have bigger things to worry about then this. Suppressors SHOULD NOT be on the restricted items list. They should be mandatory use as it cuts down on noise pollution.
 

CoryT

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    The only real reason for doing either a trust or LLC is to avoid the requirement for a CLEO signature in an area where they will not signoff on a Form 4. An LLC or other corporation has one other difference, multiple people can be 'responsible individuals' in the corp and therefore be in legal possession of the NFA items.

    If you live in a location where the CLEO signoff is no problem, and you have no need to have others use the items when you are not around, don't bother with either.
     

    texote

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    so if you have to give your fingerprints and have the cleo sign off on it, what is the point of going through the trouble of a trust or llc?
     

    KYS

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    so if you have to give your fingerprints and have the cleo sign off on it, what is the point of going through the trouble of a trust or llc?

    Well according to the new changes that is just it. They are making trusts no benefit over just registering as an individual. Which sucks for us that live in areas that CLEO refuses to sign. Or for those of us that live in a rural area in which there is no official CLEO, except for the state guys that just pass thru. That is just rural America though.
     

    texote

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    Yea well unfortunately the cleo in denton county wont sign off. thats what ive heard at least
     

    Capt Academy

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    Ok, how about this. My brother in law already has an LLC set up for this purpose. Could he just add me as an officer of his LLC to cover me as well? Would the ATF have anything to say negatively about this?

    That I don't know. The paper work that he sent in had a list of the current officers. I would just call the ATF, he may need to update his paper work and add you as an officer, or not. Call to be safe.
     

    Capt Academy

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    With the trust or LLC you don't need to be finger printed or have the CLEO sign off, you bypass those steps. You just need to send in a copy of your paper work for the trust or LLC.
     

    texote

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    With the trust or LLC you don't need to be finger printed or have the CLEO sign off, you bypass those steps. You just need to send in a copy of your paper work for the trust or LLC.

    The new executive order was made to close that loophole
     

    jdne5b

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    The only real reason for doing either a trust or LLC is to avoid the requirement for a CLEO signature in an area where they will not signoff on a Form 4.

    Or so you can efile and get your stamp in under 2 months.
     

    ridenrunwv

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    Without trust or LLC leaving a restricted item home with a spouse you would technically be committing a felony because your restricted item is in their possession. Something other than by passing a signature or finger printing to consider.
     

    RHunter

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    As it is proposed….. every single person will need to be verified by pictures and fingerprints. And you will need a CLEO signature to prove you are in compliance of current law (not a felon).

    The new executive order was made to close that loophole

    I was told today by my LGS that I have 6 months to file any new form before the trust and LLC "loophole" will be closed and new forms filed after June 2014 will require LEO signature.

    I'd like to know if that is true, if it is, I need to do a bit more shopping.
     
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    Delta4-3

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    Unless things have changed in the last few years, you can have a sole proprietorship, with an SOT. Buy/build as many cans as you want on the $500 tax stamp, then when you no longer want the business, the cans/sbr's (not MG's unless they are pre-5/86) are yours when it closes, with no tax stamp for each item.
     

    texote

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    I wonder if that is true? If so ill be getting it done this week.

    Hello christmas gift
     

    KYS

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    Or so you can efile and get your stamp in under 2 months.

    That's not true. That was a test batch of forms that were processed to show how fast it COULD be. I don't see them adopting it anytime soon.
    Which is a shame cause they are not complying with their "Paperwork Reduction Act" with the Form 4's in paper form.
     

    ZY100

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    Without trust or LLC leaving a restricted item home with a spouse you would technically be committing a felony because your restricted item is in their possession. Something other than by passing a signature or finger printing to consider.

    This is the point I think a lot of people miss. With a trust or LLC anyone in that body ( spouse, kid, sibling or friend) can use or possess the item legally. To me that was a much bigger selling point than avoiding the CLEO. Oh and when you pass away, if the person you leave your NFA items to is in the trust, they don't have to pay the $200 for each item....

    ZY
     

    ridenrunwv

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    That was the selling point to me. My county Sheriff is very pro gun rights including NFA items and I could have very easily gotten signature on my items. The greater benefits of the trust was putting my wife and Dad on it. My wife can use any NFA item and I can even loan things to my Dad. That's the biggest plus to me.
     

    Altnews

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    Without trust or LLC leaving a restricted item home with a spouse you would technically be committing a felony because your restricted item is in their possession. Something other than by passing a signature or finger printing to consider.

    Not as long as it's locked up and you are the only one with the key/combination. My brother stored his machine guns with me for an extended period when his job took him to California. They were locked in cases with copies of the paperwork taped to the outside of the case and they were stored in a closet at my house. Just don't leave them lying around unsecured and unattended....ever.

    The other good reason to have a trust is that it will provide a legal way to deal with your NFA items without a lot of confusion or possible violations by your family/heirs if you should die suddenly.

    That alone is a very good reason to use a trust.

    The thing about LLCs is that the LLC has to be kept "legal" and fully compliant with the LLC laws of the state, which usually involves filing an annual report with the state. If you forget to do this and your LLC is decertified by the state because you didn't keep up the paperwork properly, the NFA items, which are the property of the LLC, become CONTRABAND because they are "ownerless." LLCs are great if you are actually in business and do all the required reporting to keep the business in compliance with the laws of the state, but for an individual a trust is much better because it sets forth the chain of custody for the items up front, and you never need to renew it, make annual reports or anything else. Once it's done, it's done. But, you can add or subtract people from the list of trustees whenever you like and you are NOT presently required to report these changes to the BATFE, you just have to have them sign and notarize a form consenting to becoming a Trustee.

    That may change with the new proposed rules, but so far it's easy. Make your spouse a Trustee just in case you forget and leave the item out sometime, then she can deal with it legally.
     

    cheshier2

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    JohnC76

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    cheshier2

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    I've used this over 200 times in my shop for my customers they just go on their fill out the information in the blanks that are provided and it prints out instantly along with instructions. It's that simple.
    Go to the site and check it out.