Range Report Nosler RDF 140s-issues

[Sam19kilo]

A couple months ago I found an awesome load for these RDFs. Here is my rifle specs:
26” criterion stainless heavy Varmint 1/8twist 6.5 creed
They shot 1/4moa 3 months ago with 42.1gr of H4350. I revisited them and now they won’t shoot worth a shit. Re did load data to build back up to 42.1 and shot not better than a 1.5” group. Wtf is going on?

 

[joel65]

First guess is that something is loose on your rifle. Check all parts and then ensure everything is tightened to spec.

 

[Danale147]

Definitely check what joel65 said, but I hear this is a common thing with the Noslers, including myself. I have the same barrel in MTU cut and I've gone back to those bullets more times than I'm proud to admit. One day they shoot amazing and I think I've got it all worked out, and the very next day with same conditions and load, it looks like a shotgun spray. I've cut my losses and moved on. From what I've seen lately this isn't too uncommon either

 

[Sam19kilo]

First guess is that something is loose on your rifle. Check all parts and then ensure everything is tightened to spec.

Everything is good, my Berger load shot great

 

[antithesis]

Same lot number? Which Berger? Unlike VLD's, Hybrids don't really care about throat erosion.

Same brass (number of times fired, lot, etc.)?

 

[Sam19kilo]

Same lot number? Which Berger? Unlike VLD's, Hybrids don't really care about throat erosion.

Same brass (number of times fired, lot, etc.)?

I have some VLDs and hybrids that shot awesome today. All shot out of the same hornady brass, nothing mixed for firings. I got a 500rd box of RDFs and have basically wasted 40 of them trying to get them to shoot

 

[antithesis]

Sort the remainder by base to ogive if you have the right tools, then check the weight of each group. If you can't measure them, at least weight sort them and see if you have something going on within the lot.

I purchased RDF blems and they were no worse than Berger on the sort, but it was only 1 buy and I may have gotten lucky. Berger is lower on the pole than Sierra when it comes to base to ogive differences within the lot, so at that Berger is not a great standard for consistency. Sierra does throw in a significantly overweight bullet every now and then.

 

[kthomas]

Nosler RDF's just don't like to group. Couldn't get them to shoot any better than ~1 MOA in my custom 6.5 creedmoor rifles. Easy to find an accurate node with 140 Berger's, but RDF's don't shoot worth a shit.

There's a reason why they got the nickname random damn fliers. It's a shame, because they are reasonably priced with an attractive BC.

 

[Eric32]

Did you check if you need to chase the lands a bit? Also a check out Bergers VLD seating depth test article might help you get going in the right direction.

 

[Sam19kilo]

Did you check if you need to chase the lands a bit? Also a check out Bergers VLD seating depth test article might help you get going in the right direction.

My Berger vld is 2.824 and they hammer the same hole. I even tried different seating depth with the RDF and nothing worked. But I see where your coming from, I haven’t chased the lands with them yet

 

[Eric32]

It could be that, I figured if you rulled that out then one less thing. but in the article they have a test to perform it was. I am running .050 off they are great in my 260rem.

1. .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
2. .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle

VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifle.

bergerbullets.com

 

[Sam19kilo]

It could be that, I figured if you rulled that out then one less thing. but in the article they have a test to perform it was. I am running .050 off they are great in my 260rem.

1. .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
2. .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle

VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifle.

bergerbullets.com

You got the RDFs to shoot well in your 260 when you get .050 off the lands?

 

[Eric32]

Yes , they are doing well for me. I bought the barrel used and the owner gave me the load info it was .050 off. I confirmed it with another lot of bullets. It held true

 

[Country]

My guess is after 3 months some neck hardening started and the neck tension changed enough to make it average accuracy not precision accuracy . Also are you cleaning your barrel properly ?
Anneal the necks on a small batch of cases and use the original load again . See if it returns to best accuracy .

 

[cheyennewyo]

The RDFs shoot so well when they work that it’s hard to let them go. My issue has always been that I did not find there to be much lot to lot consistency. One box well shoot, and the next will not. I would like to attribute it to external factors, but way too many people are having the exact same issue.

Berger is pretty honest about VLD seating problems in their online manual. Try following their seating depth advice, as it was a lifesaver for me and worked just as well on the RDF bullets. There is usually a fairly wide happy place that is not right next to the lands which seems to make the RDFs a little more reliable in my gun. That might help you find a more consistent seating depth for the RDFs. At the end of the day, I don’t shoot RDFs anymore because it’s just too much work to keep them happy.

 

[clcustom1911]

I am jumping the 130 RDF's .070" out of my 6.5 Creedmoor in a Proof Prefit RPR barrel. I tried @ lands, .010", .040, .070. 070 did do well (cloverleaf multiple groups) I stopped testing and loaded a bunch.

 

[cageli]

when RDF shoots, it will be afar from lands, like 0.050-0.100. If you get a load to shoot near lands, it's prolly not really a good load that holds true for long.

 

[Spblademaker]

Nosler fixed the issue by mailing out Berger’s in their place. ?

 

[Spblademaker]

@clcustom1911 what was the secret sauce? I’ve gotten some really nice groups that resemble 00 Buck patterns from the 130s. They’ve been collecting dust for 2 yrs.

 

[Eric32]

Jump them a long ways use the berger seating depth test.

 

[clcustom1911]

@clcustom1911 what was the secret sauce? I’ve gotten some really nice groups that resemble 00 Buck patterns from the 130s. They’ve been collecting dust for 2 yrs.

Olympic Looooooong jump to the lands and a somewhat faster powder than h4350 like Varget, Reloder 15, BL-C(2). These'ere bullets have a short bearing surface, therefore less friction, therefore less time in barrel. I used BLC2 because that's the fastest I had at the time. I also used Fed210M primers and that dropped my SD's like a rock compared to the Rem 9 1/2 I was using originally.

I actually have a thread documenting what I did on it back in like March or April.

FOUND IT! It was back in January

My 130 RDF Thread

 

[just browsing]

Seriously start at like 60 thou and go back from there. I’ve not seen one load with RDFs shoot any closer to the lands.

 

[steve123]

RDF's are a weird bullet!

I got them shooting good to 300Y but with a bad flyer once in a while. Then shot them at 981 and 1122Y, by far the worst vertical I ever got with any bullet, 3-4 feet!

Worked up a load with hybrids, 4.5" vertical at 1025Y and often touches 5 at 100Y.

 

[lte82]

130 Berger’s are silly easy to get shooting in comparison. Are they 105 hybrid consistent? Not quite, but close!

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

I'll add another to jumping them a long way. Tried RDFs in a 6mm from .010 jammed to .040 out and couldnt get a good load. Stopped using them and years later tried their 308 175grRDF and to load mag length I had to jump them .060 and they shot much better. Load development had me settle on .070" jump on the 175RDF and its been dead on now for over 1500 rounds. No issues with lot to lot consistency for me.

Revisited the 105RDF with the same jump and boom...magically works now.

You get any of these RDFs to shoot and it'll be hard to use any other bullet.

 

[X47guy]

It’s disheartening to see all the trouble with the 140s. I bought 3k of the first ones out. My new barrel will be going on this winter. I was hoping these would be good to go.

 

[Sam19kilo]

It’s disheartening to see all the trouble with the 140s. I bought 3k of the first ones out. My new barrel will be going on this winter. I was hoping these would be good to go.

Hey I had a batch work amazing but as we are seeing from the thread there is lot to lot inconsistencies
I contacted Nosler and they offered me to send my batch of 440 back(what’s left from the 500ct pack) and they will ship me a new batch this November. I mean Nick Gadarzi uses 115 RDFs and he murders matches. And from what I see he has no issues. Worst comes to worst you can sell them. They seem to sell pretty easy. I didn’t ship them back, a buddy offered to buy them so I got rid of them.

 

[Huskydriver]

Hey I had a batch work amazing but as we are seeing from the thread there is lot to lot inconsistencies
I contacted Nosler and they offered me to send my batch of 440 back(what’s left from the 500ct pack) and they will ship me a new batch this November. I mean Nick Gadarzi uses 115 RDFs and he murders matches. And from what I see he has no issues. Worst comes to worst you can sell them. They seem to sell pretty easy. I didn’t ship them back, a buddy offered to buy them so I got rid of them.

What lot number were you having issues with?

 

[NoLegs24]

Guess I’m one of the few that can get them to shoot good enough? Lol.
Have shot about 10k (4 different lots) rounds of 140 RDF’s through my 6.5x47 the past 2years now. AI barrels from Gradous (Krieger), Hawk Hill Customs, PVA (Rock Creek) and now a AINA (WinTac).
guess I don’t care about all those rounds touching On paper ?, as much as I do about ES. Placed okay with 13th and 7th at a couple NRL matches and 3rd at SH Team Match and those loads where barely half inch. But ES of less than 15 for 10+ shots.
I mainly shoot my 6x47 for matches since my 6.5 is a trainer.
the BC is what I like the most. I use the G7 profile for my kestrel AB. And it seems to be on point out to 1850y. Had a load of ES:4 at 2750 and went 3/6 at at HatCreek with it. Was .3mil off on elevation Shooting at 19degree (neck cranker).
Also took a 140 ELDM load of ES:6 at 2780. I had to tune the G7 BC .030 to match up at that distance.
since my 6.5 is a trainer, for the money, those 140 RDF’s are hard to beat IMO. I would avoid 130 and 105 RDF’s though.
I’ve got buddies who start their load development at .100” off the lands. They love to be jumped

Even used them on my 6.5PRC going at a slow 2960 fps. Got a 1st round hit at 1800y at this years NF ELR Match in WY. And I had about 1.5 weeks to get a load off new caliber to me, brass and barrel took it at only 175 rounds down the barrel. Beat 75% of the people that went. And some of the people I beat, where using their big 338’s, and 375’s, let alone heavier 30cals or wildcat 7mm’s

 

[Sam19kilo]

What lot number were you having issues with?

The guy from Nosler was super cool and said this happens with the older lot numbers. I’ll try them again but want to verify they are a new batch.
@NoLegs24 can I send you a PM?

 

[Steel head]

My first box when they first came out kinda sucked.
A buddy and split a box this summer and I got a lot better results.
If couldn’t Find 147’s I’d certainly consider the RDF’s now.

 

[Soulezoo]

RDF = Random Damn Flier

RDF'S are very, very inconsistent base to ogive. Having sorted through 700 of these damn things, they are on average .008" variance. That said it is not uncommon to find as much .025" or more off from your target measure. So if you are going for .020" from lands from the measure of a particular bullet, the next one could be .045" off and the next one is .004" off and so forth.

So I sorted them by their measurements and seated each one progressively until they were all within .001" of each other cartridge base to ogive. Do not measure OAL of the bullet. That is even worse. My experience is with the 140's.

 

[davere]

I ran the 140 RDF in my first barrel (8-twist Bartlein 5R). They shot well - sub-half-MOA consistently. I was running 43-ish grains of 4451, seated .030 off the lands, and they ran well out to 1100. My 2nd barrel - a gain twist 12-8 Barlein - doesn't like them. Best they'll do is MOA in that barrel.

 

[Nimothy]

The guy from Nosler was super cool and said this happens with the older lot numbers. I’ll try them again but want to verify they are a new batch.
@NoLegs24 can I send you a PM?

Hey I had a batch work amazing but as we are seeing from the thread there is lot to lot inconsistencies
I contacted Nosler and they offered me to send my batch of 440 back(what’s left from the 500ct pack) and they will ship me a new batch this November. I mean Nick Gadarzi uses 115 RDFs and he murders matches. And from what I see he has no issues. Worst comes to worst you can sell them. They seem to sell pretty easy. I didn’t ship them back, a buddy offered to buy them so I got rid of them.

I called nosler and in the nicest way possible they said it was my rifle and to go f**k myself, I think we got differ t service reps lol

 

[Bergara6.5hmr]

A couple months ago I found an awesome load for these RDFs. Here is my rifle specs:
26” criterion stainless heavy Varmint 1/8twist 6.5 creed
They shot 1/4moa 3 months ago with 42.1gr of H4350. I revisited them and now they won’t shoot worth a shit. Re did load data to build back up to 42.1 and shot not better than a 1.5” group. Wtf is going on?

I've just recently been testing some load development for this load. I've tried h4350 and staball 6.5 to no avail. I can get a .5 inch group at 100yards but thats nothing compared to my 147eld and 140 bthp shooting one hole at 100 yards. I can't get them to tighten up at all! Did a full length process of lands jumping too. They just shoot like garbage. I have about 75 left that I'm giving to a friend so he can try them. I may try RL16 or H380 but not to confident in it

 

[Soulezoo]

I've just recently been testing some load development for this load. I've tried h4350 and staball 6.5 to no avail. I can get a .5 inch group at 100yards but thats nothing compared to my 147eld and 140 bthp shooting one hole at 100 yards. I can't get them to tighten up at all! Did a full length process of lands jumping too. They just shoot like garbage. I have about 75 left that I'm giving to a friend so he can try them. I may try RL16 or H380 but not to confident in it

I was using RL16. SD's were high single digits. But best I could muster was about 5/8" 5 shot groups. Many were closer to 1". The same formula using eld-x is a consistent 3/8". A few groups at 1/4". This is with Hornady brass and cci primers.

 

[Bergara6.5hmr]

I was using RL16. SD's were high single digits. But best I could muster was about 5/8" 5 shot groups. Many were closer to 1". The same formula using eld-x is a consistent 3/8". A few groups at 1/4". This is with Hornady brass and cci primers.

I wish I could get my hands on some RL16. 17 and 26 I LOVE. I can get 147 eldest moving about 2800 with RL26! it's unreal. But I shoot 1200 yards usually and I need one hole groups. I just dont think the RDF's are gonna cut it. But I can get 140 hornday BTHP and 147 ELD's in the same hole with H4350 and both RL26 and 17. I'm using starling brass but I will say. Hornady will be the next buy. I believe they make bettwr brass. Using cci #200 primers. 41.5 h4350 and 140 BTHP. honestly they're the best flying round I've found.

 

[buggz]

So, I shouldn't try commercial loads with RDF bullets?
They might truly be RDF then?

 

[Soulezoo]

So, I shouldn't try commercial loads with RDF bullets?
They might truly be RDF then?

I say try whatever you feel like. Most of us here can be full of crap. We're just reporting our experiences. You may have a totally different experience.

 

[Bergara6.5hmr]

So, I shouldn't try commercial loads with RDF bullets?
They might truly be RDF then?

No try different things. Every gun is different with every powder and every bullet. What works for us may not work for you at all

 

[MilSpecOkie]

I had great results with them in my Proof barrel when I shot 6.5. Went through several lots and some blems. I wouldn’t buy blems again because they can be from multiple lots so BTO and OAL very quite a bit.

What worked for me was to not try chase the lands or even try to get close to them. They have a short bearing surface and even in a new SAAMI chamber there isn’t much bullet left in the case at .020” jump. I went the opposite way. I seated them with the bearing surface about .050” away from the shoulder neck junction. I did that to avoid any doughnuts that may form. I found my powder charge and then went out 5K at a time to tighten up the groups if they weren’t acceptable. They had HUGE jumps and were completely against everything everyone told me to do. But hey, they shot great and that’s all I cared about.

I was pushing them around 2740 fps with H4350 and RL16.