Suppressors Petition to remove suppressors from NFA

[Svendogg]

Holdstillplease posted this up in another thread. Not sure exactly what that entails, and the real significance of passing a petition, but figured I would share. Maybe some of the more educated members in the political arena can chime in. Sure would be sweet to finally get this pushed thru! Needs 100,000 votes, as of 7/13/14 has 8,325.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/remove-suppressors-nfa-regulated-item/wVgXbqP8

 

[bogeybrown]

To answer your question in broad terms and thus, hopefully, avoid politics and keep this more in line with a High School Civics class discussion:

The petition is absolutely meaningless in terms of government function. It is run through a site that was (ostensibly) created by the White House to track issues important to voters. If it reaches 100,000 signatures, then by the "rules" a member of the Administration will be delegated to issue an official response to the petition. However, no such response is actually required, and the official response could be a very simple "No".

For perspective: petitions requesting the construction of a Death Star and another requesting the deportation of Justin Bieber received the necessary signatures for "official response". A staffer gave an official response the Death Star proposal but not to the Justin Bieber issue as of yet.

The only way to accomplish the stated goal of any "petition" is to contact your local Representatives and Senators and ask them to introduce said legislation. Which doesn't really happen. More often, once a Bill has been introduced, THEN the voices of the individuals hold some weight with their elected legislators.

Again, staying away from "politics" and keeping to "Civics". If you wish to promote a specific idea or agenda, that requires participation in the democratic process of electing people to represent you who hold beliefs consistent and sympathetic to your own. Supporting organizations who lobby on behalf of "your" issues is also effective as a means of uniting many people of like mind to help push forward a legislative agenda. Keep in mind that "your" lobbies are only as successful as the political make up of the sitting Congress.

In summary, the petition, if it reaches 100,000 signatures, will let the White House know that 100,000 people would like suppressors removed from NFA. Period. Actually not exactly true, it also provides the White House with 100,000 email addresses they can contact with news concerning political issues that may of interest to the petitioners.

 

[Jig Stick]

Its such a money maker for the NFA / ATF to have these things regulated so strictly. Over in Europe it is much easier to acquire them, not quite "over the counter", but dam close. They are actually encouraged there to keep the noise down. It boggles my mind that in the USA, with such a integral Hx of gun culture, that we have to fight for these things. But it all comes down to the $$$$

 

[Greg Langelius *]

BATFE is a tax enforcement agency. That ought to clarify the issue.

Trying to get up a petition to convince BATFE to eliminate the taxes/authorizations from suppressors is pretty similar to getting up a petition to convince hookers to eliminate the use of condoms. It just ain't gonna happen in this particular space/time continuum.

Anything the BATFE does is a form of people control.

Greg

 

[truth]

BATFE is a tax enforcement agency. That ought to clarify the issue.

Trying to get up a petition to convince BATFE to eliminate the taxes/authorizations from suppressors is pretty similar to getting up a petition to convince hookers to eliminate the use of condoms. It just ain't gonna happen in this particular space/time continuum.

Anything the BATFE does is a form of people control.

Greg

If all they wanted was your $$$ they could collect it at time of sale and send you on your way with your items. In fact they could lower the tax and generate more income by not requiring you to wait 6 months or longer and deal with the cumbersome paperwork required for approval as that keep many people from even bothering with NFA items.

 

[BM3JOHN]

Looks to me , that this petition could bring about attention that we don't really need from the ones who would explot it in the current administration and tree hugging , wacko groups , that infest our nation now.

 

[HD1911]

Looks to me , that this petition could bring about attention that we don't really need from the ones who would explot it in the current administration and tree hugging , wacko groups , that infest our nation now.

So be afraid to take a Stand against something that's Un-Constitutional?

 

[Dogtown]

Over in Europe it is much easier to acquire them, not quite "over the counter", but dam close.

New Zealand has "over the counter" suppressor laws and no restrictions on making your own.

 

[Asperly Aimless]

If all they wanted was your $$$ they could collect it at time of sale and send you on your way with your items. In fact they could lower the tax and generate more income by not requiring you to wait 6 months or longer and deal with the cumbersome paperwork required for approval as that keep many people from even bothering with NFA items.

Exactly. The book "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross actually spelled this out in regards to NFA items, but Machine guns specifically. However' it holds true for all the NFA items. Collect tax at time of sale, lower the tax, reduce the amount of ass pain required to get your NFA item, and the Treasury would be rolling in sweet sweet dough generated by the sale and taxing of NFA items. Heck, even now the $200 stamp isn't even that onerous and thank God the retards that straddled us with the junk law didn't have the foresight to consider the possibility of the devaluation of the dollar and higher incomes.

 

[truth]

Exactly. The book "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross actually spelled this out in regards to NFA items, but Machine guns specifically.

I've given a few copies of that book away as gifts, as it was a gift when it was shown to me. I'm sure I'm on a list somewhere for having ordered so many.

 

[BM3JOHN]

Not afraid of anything , just like to know where my adversarys are and what avenues they take , I don't give out freebe's to one who would take the chance to have the advantage .

 

[clmayfield]

Honestly, I don't care about the $200 tax stamp. I do care about the 6 - 14 month waiting period.

 

[_Windrider_]

What good does anyone think a petition will do to the White House?

Only congress can change this, and that is about as likely as the White House even responding to this.




Posted via Tapatalk HD for iPad

 

[Svendogg]

Honestly, I don't care about the $200 tax stamp. I do care about the 6 - 14 month waiting period.

My same thoughts exactly. No problem paying the stamp, if that's what it takes for me to have one. However, the fact that every rifle I have bought, including my "assault rifle" a SCAR-17 w/ (5) 20-round mags, I was in & out in less than 45min. But for some reason the thing that sticks on the end of those guns requires a much more thorough background check process that ends up taking 6-14 months, doesn't make sense to me. Without a weapon, a suppressor is a really expensive paperweight, so why is the process so much different & more complicated than the weapon itself? I agree though, run the same background check process you do when you buy a gun, tack on the same tax-stamp fee they got now, and everyone wins. ATF gets their money (probably would generate much more due to sales increasing), we get our suppressors over the counter, and our ranges would be much more pleasant.

I signed the petition, in my opinion, any step is a step. Hopefully getting enough support on this petition will show that this is a legitimate issue for those Representative's & Senators to then introduce a Bill. But no one will ever hear you if you don't say anything, so although its a small & possibly futile step, at least its a step.

Look at it this way.... I can go down the street right now and go by an ounce of weed.... legally.... that had to start somewhere, and you cant tell me that a bunch of pot heads have more initiative than us....

 

[RobertB]

There are probably alloy more pot heads than hard core gun guys. And maybe illiminating criminals and black market might have some reason to iy. Idk. Just thinking

 

[orkan]

When the wait times were 4 months... we sold 10-20 suppressors per month. Now with the 10-16 month waits, we are lucky to sell one per month. Every single customer bitches about the wait time, and rightfully so. It's complete bullshit.

To say I'm really fucking tired of storing my customers property in our safe for a year, and having our sales cut off at the nuts, is a bit of an understatement.

 

[gaphighpower]

Holy Sh&t.
Please tell me 16 months is an exaggeration.
Under what circumstances are people having to wait THAT long?

 

[orkan]

Holy Sh&t.
Please tell me 16 months is an exaggeration.
Under what circumstances are people having to wait THAT long?

NO... NOT an exaggeration. That guy already owned 4 other suppressors at that point. No reason at all for this waiting bullshit other than the feds trying to make it as difficult as possible for people to have them. Control control control. It damn sure doesn't have one singular thing to do with safety.

We haven't had a form come back under 10 months for at least a year.

A right delayed is a right denied.

 

[Svendogg]

A Friday morning bump. At 32k, need another 68k by 8/5/14. I wrote my governor, explained the whole craziness of the NFA's process, resulting wait times and also decreased tax revenue due to people not wanting to hassle with it. Included the link to the petition and even invited him out shooting. Haven't heard back, but at least I know I'm doing my best to help make a change to something I think is completely backwards.

Even offered to pay his range fees... Is that a tax deduction?

 

[3DHUSKER]

My same thoughts exactly. No problem paying the stamp, if that's what it takes for me to have one. However, the fact that every rifle I have bought, including my "assault rifle" a SCAR-17 w/ (5) 20-round mags, I was in & out in less than 45min. But for some reason the thing that sticks on the end of those guns requires a much more thorough background check process that ends up taking 6-14 months, doesn't make sense to me. Without a weapon, a suppressor is a really expensive paperweight, so why is the process so much different & more complicated than the weapon itself? I agree though, run the same background check process you do when you buy a gun, tack on the same tax-stamp fee they got now, and everyone wins. ATF gets their money (probably would generate much more due to sales increasing), we get our suppressors over the counter, and our ranges would be much more pleasant.

I signed the petition, in my opinion, any step is a step. Hopefully getting enough support on this petition will show that this is a legitimate issue for those Representative's & Senators to then introduce a Bill. But no one will ever hear you if you don't say anything, so although its a small & possibly futile step, at least its a step.

Look at it this way.... I can go down the street right now and go by an ounce of weed.... legally.... that had to start somewhere, and you cant tell me that a bunch of pot heads have more initiative than us....

Try and hold a job smoking your legal weed or better yet try to cross over state lines with your legal weed and see where that gets you. Law enforcement has made shit tons of money from the drug traffic. We see it all the time coming in from Colorado now and it keeps all the border states busy. Then they take it back to Colorado and sell it again to you pot heads and the cycle continues. Not even close to the same kind of argument.
If the gooberment can get all you pot heads eating out of their hands they have you one step closer to the goal of socialism.

 

[EasyGravy]

^ I rather be around "potheads" than a typical drunk. Be that at work, at the range, on the streets wherever doing whatever. Ive smoked pot for 20 years, I been more sucsessful in life than most people I know, I own my own Electrical shop, and I am a Master Electrician.
Just because you smoke pot doesnt make you a complete dead head, or socialist monger.
I get pissed off if one of my workers smelling like booze, I send you home for the day.
So I dont understand the rational of not being able to hold a job down because you smoke.
Hell, I remember during the invasion of Iraq, half the 2nd tank bn and 2nd assault amphibian bn had " skunks" get in their vehicle. From what Ive heard from a few Marsoc buddies also is theres a lot of " skunks spraying" in the AO of the stan.

 

[Svendogg]

Try and hold a job smoking your legal weed or better yet try to cross over state lines with your legal weed and see where that gets you. Law enforcement has made shit tons of money from the drug traffic. We see it all the time coming in from Colorado now and it keeps all the border states busy. Then they take it back to Colorado and sell it again to you pot heads and the cycle continues. Not even close to the same kind of argument.
If the gooberment can get all you pot heads eating out of their hands they have you one step closer to the goal of socialism.

I think your drastically missing my point, as I stated the whole pot movement had to start somewhere, and it takes initiative, motivation, and dedication to get things changed. It takes those thing to make things change, even things that what seemed controversial and insurmountable as something like legalizing pot. That was my point. Whatever your/my/our opinions are on that matter is irrelevant to this discussion. I don't smoke pot, got nothing wrong with those that do, it's their choice, and I'm in complete agreement with Gravys comments below, definitely prefer to be around a pot head than a drunk. Let's not de-rail something that I would think we as a shooting community have a unified opinion on, that being the current NFA process is ridiculous, something has to change.

 

[3DHUSKER]

No I didn't miss your point. Sure it starts somewhere but the key I was pointing out is it has to benefit the gooberment in some way or it will never happen. The state government had a reason that benefits them with pot or it would not have happened is my point.
Its just a fact that there is nothing good for us that is good for the gooberment also, just bad. It would be nice, but the juice is not worth the squeeze when you weigh it all out. You would better off working together to keep your arms as with a stroke of the pin it ALL can be gone.
If you do as I do and buy an item every couple of months you don't even look at the times as something is always coming in. Kind of like sex, you don't think about it unless your not getting any.

EasyGravy.. You show up drunk or stoned and you get 30 days to think about it with us and next time your gone. Contractors we hire are gone zero tolerance. We will not have a unsafe working environment for the rest of the workers because you want a drink or smoke a joint. We care about the people we hire and their familys and the first priority is to get them home safe with a paycheck in hand.
I personally don't care to be around either, a drug is a drug, but that is here nor there and another topic altogether.

 

[EasyGravy]

I honestly dont see any less gun restrictions kn the country. If anything they will get more and more strict. Here in ny our gov passed the SAFE act overnight behind closed door making pretty much every semi auto rifle and blk gun illegal assault weapons.

 

[EasyGravy]

No I didn't miss your point. Sure it starts somewhere but the key I was pointing out is it has to benefit the gooberment in some way or it will never happen. The state government had a reason that benefits them with pot or it would not have happened is my point. <br />
Its just a fact that there is nothing good for us that is good for the gooberment also, just bad. It would be nice, but the juice is not worth the squeeze when you weigh it all out. You would better off working together to keep your arms as with a stroke of the pin it ALL can be gone. <br />
If you do as I do and buy an item every couple of months you don't even look at the times as something is always coming in. Kind of like sex, you don't think about it unless your not getting any. <br />
<br />
EasyGravy.. You show up drunk or stoned and you get 30 days to think about it with us and next time your gone. Contractors we hire are gone zero tolerance. We will not have a unsafe working environment for the rest of the workers because you want a drink or smoke a joint. We care about the people we hire and their familys and the first priority is to get them home safe with a paycheck in hand. <br />
I personally don't care to be around either, a drug is a drug, but that is here nor there and another topic altogether. <br/>
The same here would happen, exept the guy would be back at the union hall out of work. I dont condone drug or booze at work, or in shooting sports either. My labor comes pre drug tested from the union hall when I need manpower. Way off subject anyways.

 

[3DHUSKER]

Ya we got way off topic. I sure hope you guys can get things turned around there as that back door shit should get your elected officials voted out.

 

[EasyGravy]

Unfortunately NYC dictates New York laws. Us upstate have to suffer. If my business and family wasnt here I wouldnt be. Id probally have a cool can on my bangsticks too.

 

[captnmo]

I believe the current proposal by the ATF to remove the Trust Fund option in obtaining a suppressor has been delayed until 2015. Someone correct me if in wrong. That being said, I don't expect the administration to do anything with the petition. But it might delay even further or cease the current attack on the means by which most of obtain suppressors. Just my 2 cents on why taking two minutes to sign is worth it.