Range Report Shooting paper vs steel

[Cnewhouse48]

Hit the range today with the .308 in tote to do some paper shooting @500-700 yards. While I’m not new to LR shooting I’m no pro. Anyways I usually shoot steel or 1 gallon water jugs and have had some really good groups/ results.

But shooting paper is WAY harder for me I couldn’t shoot any better than 1.25moa from 5-700 yards and I’ve shot 1/2-1 moa groups with this rifle in the past on steel.

So I’m curious is it just me or do some of y’all have better results shooting steel?

 

[Diver160651]

Hit the range today with the .308 in tote to do some paper shooting @500-700 yards. While I’m not new to LR shooting I’m no pro. Anyways I usually shoot steel or 1 gallon water jugs and have had some really good groups/ results.

But shooting paper is WAY harder for me I couldn’t shoot any better than 1.25moa from 5-700 yards and I’ve shot 1/2-1 moa groups with this rifle in the past on steel.

So I’m curious is it just me or do some of y’all have better results shooting steel?

You can’t correct on paper unless you are using pits and spotter discs.

You are shooting the same, just the results tend to be truer, if you do not have a spotter in the pits to help correct.

 

[ezekeial]

Have better luck shooting targets at longer range (600 yds) by centering (bracketing?) them in reticle at lower power (relatively) . Not real fond of shooting dots on paper at longer ranges at the higher powers (above 12x) .

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Are you really measuring precision when shooting steel................or is a hit a hit? Personally, when I hear the ring it's just good enough. When shooting paper I automatically start measuring how precise my marks are. Just a thought............

 

[Cnewhouse48]

i often do measure groups on steel. To me personally I have an easier time getting steady shooting plates. I’m sure it’s just a mental thing.

 

[Sticks]

Target fixation. Focusing on a .25 MOA dot vs. a 1-2 MOA Plate. Which is taking more brain muscle?

Lack of instant gratification punching paper. Unless you have (as mentioned) a spotter, or can set up a camera (Target Vision) to see the results, then you are occupying your CPU with "Wonder how close I am to center, and how tight the group is?"

 

[Longshot231]

I think that the size of the steel target makes a difference in perspective.

There is the lack of instant gratification when punching paper but the holes never lie. It will reveal a lot about your skill and your rifle.

On a 600 yard NRA MR-I1 target the X-ring is 6 inches in diameter. Whereas the 10-ring is 12 inches in diameter.

Let's say we're shooting a rifle that's capable of producing 3/4 MOA groups at 100 yards. Given all the other variables at 600 yards we might expect 1 MOA on a good day. That means we ought to expect all the holes to appear in the X-ring with our laser-accurate rifle with expensive optics.

Throw in some wind and we'll see holes going into the 10 ring. From a psychological perspective this would put most of us into a mild state of depression. We'd begin to wonder, "Is it me or is it my rifle? Or is it the quality of my ammunition? OMG! It might be all three!"

It's about as bad as, "Is she faking her orgasm?"

Just about everyone of us that are into long range precision shooting are perfectionists. Some are borderline OCD cases. I'm not one of those. Just saying.

Let's take the same rifle with the same ammunition on the same day and shoot at a 12 inch diameter steel plate. With our 3/4 MOA rifle, on a windy day, we should be able to get all of our rounds on steel. That's only if we are really doing our part with good wind estimation and exact DOPE.

From a psychological perspective, we won't think about the size of the plate being twice as large as the X-ring on a paper target (or the same size as the 10-ring). All we are going to care about is that the steel is ringing. We'd be as happy as a baby playing with his daddy's car keys.

Now let's take those same conditions and rifle but shoot at a 6 inch diameter steel plate. On a windy day, not all of us are going to be able to hit that plate that is the size of the paper x-ring.

Let's say we can hit that 6 inch plate about 75% of the time. The misses would probably get within inches of the plate. If that happens the mental perspective will fall into two categories.

The first category a shooter might fall into is one of wanting to do better but getting frustrated. This happens especially if a shooter sees someone else shooting a rifle that bucks the wind better than his. I've never been jealous of the other guy. And I'm not point any fingers here but I know some of you look at another guy's rifle like you'd look at Elizabeth Hurley or Kate Hudson in a nudist colony. Admit it. You people know who you are.

Anyway, the second category of shooter who is getting 75% hits on a 1 MOA plate versus a 2 MOA plate will take into account the conditions and limitations of his rifle. He'd like to do better but won't pay attention to the other guy with the super-sexy-state-of-the-art laser-beam rifle.

If all we had to shoot at was a 2 MOA plate most of us might get bored with hitting it all the time. However, there are some shooters that would brag all day long about hitting a 12 inch plate and think they were God's gift to the marksmanship community.

I beat some other shooters out on some F-class competition a while back. Yet, I didn't have any bragging rights. I had a better rifle than some of the other shooters. I have to admit, that these fellows were better shots than I was. I had the benefit of using better equipment.

After seeing how well they did with lesser quality equipment, I realize that I need to work harder on perfecting my skills and not just my equipment.

Too wrap this up, I will simply say is take a couple of aspirin and go to the range to have fun. We didn't get into the shooting game just to spend a lot of money and be miserable. We got into the shooting game to spend a lot of money and have fun.

 

[308pirate]

i often do measure groups on steel. To me personally I have an easier time getting steady shooting plates. I’m sure it’s just a mental thing.

A target is a target and paper doesn't lie.

I think you're overestimating your ability when shooting steel and when you see the real results on paper it causes cognitive dissonance.

A local club has a monthly 600 yard prone practice on NRA targets (using real pits and movable target frames). If you shoot with a sling you get to use the conventional NRA 600 yd target with the 2 MOA 10 ring. If you shoot from a bipod you get the the NRA 600 yd F class target with a 1 MOA 10 ring. I hardly ever see any precision rifle shooters besides me there. They are all happy to hit steel somewhere and probably wouldn't like to find out that their "1/2 MOA all day" rifle and ability ain't quite so.

 

[Rocketvapor]

I agree that the paper doesn't lie.
It's seems many don't realize the F-Class X is not the same size as the Hipower X ring.
For Mid-Range F-Class (F-open or F-TR) @ 600 yards, lining up perfect on the target center, got your drop dope dead on, holding off for wind, miss your POA by more than 1/2 MOA and you are in the 9 ring. Get some vertical in your shot and the scoring circles aren't as wide at the top and bottom.
Not like a rectangle.
About .36 MOA up/down and .36 left/right and its a 9. (45 degrees from the center)
Nobody wants a 9


Since I don't shoot steel what is the 'normal' target at 600 yds?

 

[308pirate]

Since I don't shoot steel what is the 'normal' target at 600 yds?

It could be anything. Some places have 12 x 12 plates everywhere. One place I go to has arrays with different target sizes at the various distances so you get to pick and choose from somewhere around 3 MOA down to maybe 3/4 MOA

NRA highpower rifle targets are humbling at 600 yards unless you're pretty damned good.

 

[Longshot231]

I'm glad you guys mentioned the F-Class target dimensions. You're saying what I meant with fewer words; which takes talent!

308Pirate, I must remember to use the term "cognitive dissonance," in my lexicon more often!

Since I don't shoot steel what is the 'normal' target at 600 yds?

I've only shot steel informally but starting on page 20 in the link below, the PRS rules specify the target dimensions.

https://www.precisionrifleseries.com/static/media/uploads/prs_rules.pdf

So at 600 yards they have 2 and 3 MOA targets. I don't have a 6.5 CM but am able to hit those targets with my .308 most of the time. BUT, I'm usually prone, not in a hurry, breathing under control and don't have the stress of competition to deal with. AND I have all day to figure out my wind correction and holdover.

 

[Rocketvapor]

My range situation is either a 100 yd range to practice, play, sight in or drive a couple hours to a 600/1000 yd range.
I haven't gone past 600 yet, but plan on it this summer.
I went from a 481-1X from a sling first time out (600) to my latest/greatest 581-12X F-Open. Other than a 'Did Not Finish' guy I came in last
Didn't do too bad against the F-TR guys and gals, but that's not fair. They were only shooting .223s or .308s.
But it was the best I have done so far.
Got a bunch of 9's.
Here's a 20 shot relay cut down to 1:24
A match where I go is 3 relays, 60 rounds.

Rocketvapor @ 600


I downloaded the PRS rules pdf and quickly looked it over. Looks like fun. At least the 10 yard run to the barricade sounds doable, even for a 'Senior'.
The 90 second time limits don't allow much time for catching your breath after running though.
Scoring sounds a little like High School grading on a curve.

F-Class is at such a slow pace I have trouble staying awake (1 round a minute)

Oops, I forgot, talking F-class in the hide is verboten