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St Louis riot

Has anyone seen the Socialism / Dictator ship agenda here?
Governor speaks out he wants justice but does no acknowledge the fact that the kid was beating a Police officer after robbing a store? Total bullshit and not any different than the
Democrats trying to capitalize on any other National Tragedy.
 
That's what YOU think, since you weren't there.

Now let me tell you what I think.

The cop doesn't know Brown has just committed a strong arm robbery. But Brown doesn't know that the officer doesn't know. Brown does know he's commited a felony and sees cops approach him. He assumes they are there to arrest him for the robbery or that if they pick him up for something else they will find out about the robbery.

Brown fights with the cop, tries to take his gun, strikes him hard enough to break facial bones, cop now has suffered what in my state is legally termed "serious bodily injury" and is beginning to "fear for this life" due to the attempt to disarm him.

Cop decides to use the deadly force that he is legally justified in using, shoots Brown until the assault stops. The assault stops when Brown takes one through the brain housing group.

Now let me school you a bit on the realities of using deadly force in self defense from a private individual's POV......

If you are unarmed and have the capability and intent (via larger size/strenght and totality of circumstance) to put me in a reasonable fear that you can and will inflict serious bodily injury (of which broken bones and concussions are a part of) I CAN legally use deadly force to defend myself. Not only that, when I can articulate those facts, supported by evidence, I will get away with plugging you full of lead.

Get this through your fucking head: being unarmed is not a shield against being lawfully shot. GOT IT?

From LEO perspective, this rings true to me!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Your wrong, it is about povert/economics, for the most part. They were brought here aqainst their will. NO other group here can say that. Then, the black people left the south because they were, while freed, still second, if not third class citizens, because of their color, and lack of money and education. Even free there were no jobs. They didnt come looking for handouts, they came looking for work. So they get to the northern cities and all the whites see is a bunch of poor negroes, and move out which creates a vacum, to be filled by more of the same. Then in the 1960's the Johnson admin. created social welfare programs designed to help them. Some took advantage and used them to climb out of their hole, while some took advantage and created a deeper hole they will likely never get out of. Thats what we are seeing now. Some more good role models and family values certainly wouldnt hurt as well.

Yes, we must "pull ourselves up by the bootstraps" but there are only so many positions at the top.

Im really surprised by all the "closet racisim" I see on here. When you dont study history you are doomed to repeat it. Study the history. Im not being soft on anyone, just looking at the truth. And the truth is, that the black people in America today, ARE at a disadvantage. Not what it used to be but its still there. Hell, white people are at a disavantage if your not one of the 1% We are all getting fucked, and tis is just another part of it.

Im not the first one in this thread to say it. "We created the problem." but what the fuck, you couldnt hear them, you wont hear me.

Popcorn.
Gunny bears.
They had the chance to make their utopia in Detroit. Look at the result.
 
They were brought here aqainst their will. NO other group here can say that.

True their ancestors really were and the solution for this injustice is really simple however i wonder what voting result on repatriation to their ancestor homeland would be like? +90% for moar EBT and free crack and the rest invalid due to comprehension problems and other technicalities (like choosing both/all options or none)?

This IS NOT economic problem this is biological, ethical and racial problem. Stupidity and idiocy and vile among spoiled white idiots and sick elites has turned what is de facto a grand canyon of differences on EVERY POSSIBLE level into forced coexistence on our terms and forcing whole number of people to be something they are not nor capable (most of them not all) of. Anything else is word mincing and lying to be either politically correct or likable to vast majority of peers. You cannot expect a human who was hacking his neighbor with a machete on the Monday to be good citizen and living in a urban center having a 9-5 job with all the complexity of today's modern life on Tuesday - to not even go into the pampering and state control trough free stuff (EBT etc) to create a class of brainless serfs.
 
As a life long resident of St. Louis with family and friends on both the city and county police forces I am just sick of the fact that the local, national, and international media and a particular segment of the local populace is in such a hurry to lynch this officer. A decorated six-year veteran of his police force.

Equality? There is no equality. If there was there would not be a crowd of outsiders (the vast majority of those arrested are not from the community) yelling; "Indict! Convict!". Instead there would be a call for due process to run its course. If there was equality there would be reported facts like the officer's severe facial injuries, the dozen or so witnesses that offer a view more favorable to the officer ("Snitches get stitches." is spray painted on many buildings in the area), and there would be more coverage of the fact that the Depatment of Just-Us has "asked" the local police forces not to release information to the press. The video of Mr Brown robbing the store for example. Or pictures of the officer's injuries.

Equality is a myth. As long as we remain humans with emotions there will always be prejudice, greed, jealousy and all of the other faults that make us what we are. But the press and our stinking state government might make some attempt at living up to their rhetoric on the subject instead of railroading this fine young man.

There is a Facebook page called "I Support Officer Wilson" that now has 55,000 followers. If you agree with my humble opinion I ask that you join this group and show you support as well.
 
Agreed and well said.
Ongoing is the operative word.
Once the chain is broken, it's very difficult to re-establish morality in less than two generations.

Today's challenge question is how do you re-instill values once the chain has been broken, and the lessons don't even exist to be passed down to the next generation.

As others have pointed out, the first thing is to remove the crutches from those who can clearly walk, but have yet to recognize that they can.
TRUE poverty and hunger calls upon human instincts to survive and to overcome adversity through effort and perseverance, not through coddling and the trappings of accepting minimums as standards.
 
I am interested to in some examples of what is not equal.

If we live in a nation of laws then its exactly equal and if you percieve it is not equal you have an equal chance at a remedy. Perhaps I am missing your point here.

Fixed it for ya.

But they arent and it hasnt.

Maybe 60-70% but certainly not fully.

And if it aint equal it aint equal.
 
I am interested to in some examples of what is not equal.

If we live in a nation of laws then its exactly equal and if you percieve it is not equal you have an equal chance at a remedy. Perhaps I am missing your point here.


Im not intending to be obtuse but its a subtle thing. When I speak of many things like this you must understand that there is'positional' reality, and 'experiential' reality. While the law can make things 'positionally' equal, they do not necessarily make the 'experientially' equal.

An example would be that in 1865 or so, when slavery was ended, black people were 'positionally' made equal but do you really belive that in their actual experience (experientially) they were equal. Not so. Its taken 150 years for them to make it this far, but 'experientially' they are still not 100% equal. it may be a smaller %than I used but the difference is still there. Just like women in the workforce generally make less for doing the same job. Positionally, they are equal,' experientially' they are not. Its changing, but it takes time. Unfortunately, with the urban ghetto problem, I dont think time will solve the problem.

Hope that explains it a bit. Im in no way condoning the rioting, but I make efforts to understand 'why'.
 
Its taken 150 years for them to make it this far, but 'experientially' they are still not 100% equal.

It is so because the "black" community wishes it to be so. Or wishes it to not be so WITHOUT effort on their part. Same shit, different day.
 
What seems to amaze me is that people have fallen for the change of language being used. We went from "welfare" a program that was established to give a helping hand to those in a tough situation to "entitlement". Something owed you. Then they had this great idea to change the narrative to "it's for the children. We have to help them regardless of the parents". Then it was incentivized by the number of children and lack of two parents in the home. Hell I can get more money for another kid as long as I don't get married. Frick I'll have 6 of them. One of the other words being used now is "less fortunate". You are fortunate to work your ass off for the things you have. You hit the freaking lottery, don't you know? Why is it that the kids I went to school with didn't take advantage of the same teachers and classes and get the hell out? I was fortunate? I got lucky? No I worked for it. They didn't. It was/is easier to hang out and get a check cuz it's "entitled" to them. You want something? Go out and work you ass off and get it!! That is what makes the USA different than most places on this planet. The population of Ferguson didn't change overnight. It was a gradual change. The city was a mostly white city and now it is almost 70% black. Where did all the whites go? Did they hit the lottery? No!! They went to school and got an education, a job and left. They had the same teachers and classes. The same opportunity/tools to succeed. Why did some use what was offered and others not?
In a previous post someone had mentioned about the flight of the blacks from their own. Why is this? Why is the blame being put on the people that are giving out for free the tools to change. Where are AL and Jessie and many others? These are the ones that should be in these communities teaching what it takes to be a success. Where was "O' and what was he doing to change the problem? They are more of the problem. They are using the problem for their benefit. They can point a finger and blame but what are they doing to show. They could care less as long as they can milk the black man for their benefit. All the millionaire athletes, musicians/ rappers, doctors, lawyers business people and politicians out there. What are they doing? NOTHING!!! As long as they can blame someone else and take advantage they will use the black problem to their advantage.
 
Providing people with free stuff does not provide them with the tools to succeed.

Think give a man a fish versus teach a man to fish.

.

I think you are confusing affirmative action with welfare. They are not the same.

I think welfare has its place in certain conditions, but it was not meant to become a career. I am sure we would agree on some aspects of it and disagree on others.

I grew up very poor. There were nights when Chef Boy R Dee meatballs and gravy, were served over egg noodles and that was dinner. I never went hungry and I did not know I was dirt poor. I made it out by working hard, simple. We never had a dime of govt assistance but we did get lower rent by living in a Govt. housing project.

Black folks have had even better opportunities than I had. It is not my fault if they failed to use them to advance themselves. Schools with high number of black students get more money than any others. Yet they graduate students that can't read. Life does not give you stuff, it gives you opportunities. It is up you to walk the walk so to speak.

When the black race starts to accept responsibility for itself, not only will they get ahead, but racism will fade to a whimper or a footnote. I raised and took responsibility for my kids, let them do the same. JMHO
 
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+1 on this from MTT. If you choose to look at people, in the US, in subgroups then, as MTT states, they are not a homogeneous group with a shared history. Many divergent paths were taking by all but the native americans to get here(migratory caveat noted). Each group has, somewhere in their history, an example of being of a vanquished group. To take us imports out of the conversation one has to look no further than those whos ancestral lineage are from this continent. Many Native American groups have a clear history of taking slaves to do work for them however, over time, those 'slaves' were incorporated into the social structure. This is not to justify enslavement but, rather, to demonstrate that, generationally, being in the victim culture is not a destiny. Other examples such is the Chinese brought to CA to work also exist. Many of those Chinese in the Sierras were by definition slaves and they, as a culture, are not generally seen as being in the victim culture.

Separate out the discussions of the problem and the solution. The problem is not that I think somewhere in my past my ancestors were taken slaves. The problem is I believe that history has an impact on me. To paraphrase Herr Commandant Franks signature line.... what you think directly impacts what you do. Or, to steal from Abe.... 'People are just about as happy as they choose to be'

Tucker is correct that the real issue is in the solution. And, for far too many, regardless of your skin pigmentation, being a victim is now a way of life. One might suggest looking at the liberal/socialist/marxist/communist doctrine to start learning about how to move the dial on this as the US is VERY close this is exactly where they want the us to be.
Maggot, I respectfully disagree as that statement is woefully incomplete. The city in which I grew up, New Orleans, was put on the map in large part due to the Hatian revolution. If anyone happens to visit the Napoleon House restaurant (a former employer) I would encourage them to look directly across Chartres Street and notice the word "change" carved into the top of an archway. This word is all that remains of the original "Slave Exchange". This was a Creole owned slave market. I cannot use the term black and Creole interchangeably after having been admonished for doing so umpteen times while growing up. Hatians revolted against their slave owners, many of them being Creole (almost any American would identify as an "African American") who subsequently took refuge in New Orleans, some of whom prospered in the slave trade in New Orleans. Such mis-identification is not only wrong but it is intellectually dishonest. Since the Creoles from Haiti arrived on this continent there was a wave of Caribbeans of African descent following WWII, and many from the African continent since then. I enjoyed a brilliant chemistry professor in college from Zaire, and suffered humiliation at the hands (err, feet) by a soccer team comprised entirely of Cameroonian immigrants. I have not seen any place on earth that is so eager to lump people into nice little buckets as I have in the United States. To do so is to strip them of their history and cultural identity.

But what they had to overcome was not poverty, but a cycle of chaos and debauchery. And to top that off, overcome a system that vigorously supports the cycle. If someone wants to be a hero in Ferguson then help pull some kids out of that culture we see shooting the locks out of a liquor store door. But don't expect to make prime time news for your efforts.
Your wrong, it is about povert/economics, for the most part. They were brought here aqainst their will. NO other group here can say that. Then, the black people left the south because they were, while freed, still second, if not third class citizens, because of their color, and lack of money and education. Even free there were no jobs. They didnt come looking for handouts, they came looking for work. So they get to the northern cities and all the whites see is a bunch of poor negroes, and move out which creates a vacum, to be filled by more of the same. Then in the 1960's the Johnson admin. created social welfare programs designed to help them. Some took advantage and used them to climb out of their hole, while some took advantage and created a deeper hole they will likely never get out of. Thats what we are seeing now. Some more good role models and family values certainly wouldnt hurt as well.

Yes, we must "pull ourselves up by the bootstraps" but there are only so many positions at the top.

Im really surprised by all the "closet racisim" I see on here. When you dont study history you are doomed to repeat it. Study the history. Im not being soft on anyone, just looking at the truth. And the truth is, that the black people in America today, ARE at a disadvantage. Not what it used to be but its still there. Hell, white people are at a disavantage if your not one of the 1% We are all getting fucked, and tis is just another part of it.

Im not the first one in this thread to say it. "We created the problem." but what the fuck, you couldnt hear them, you wont hear me.

Popcorn.
Gunny bears.
 
I agree with you and your not being obtuse. I believe we are saying the same thing and using different phrasing. Thanks for explaining your thinking....much appreciated.

Im not intending to be obtuse but its a subtle thing. When I speak of many things like this you must understand that there is'positional' reality, and 'experiential' reality. While the law can make things 'positionally' equal, they do not necessarily make the 'experientially' equal.

An example would be that in 1865 or so, when slavery was ended, black people were 'positionally' made equal but do you really belive that in their actual experience (experientially) they were equal. Not so. Its taken 150 years for them to make it this far, but 'experientially' they are still not 100% equal.
 
What about Ice Hockey and NASCAR. That is going to mess up a good thing. I say pull the white guys out of basketball but NASCAR is definitely going to have to stay white.
We will throw in Vanilla Ice and Michael Jackson ( both White) but they gotta give us Halle Berry in good faith.
 
Tucker301 several us here in St. Louis have brought this fact up to some of our darker skinned bretheren only to be either disbelieved or shouted down. Funny how that works huh?

Also, during a recent speech here in St. Louis the Reverend Sharpton referred to some whites as "crackers". Had a white person used the "N word" there would have been hell to pay. But Al uses the an equally nasty racial slur and there's nothing.

Those calling for Officer Wilson's lynching say they want justice. Bullshit.

Back to the primary topic, it appears that on the same day, a black officer shot and killed a white unarmed 20 year old in Utah.
There have been some small and incident-free protests.
No looting of liquor, hair extensions, and flat screen TVs as far as I can tell.

I hope Jessie and Al have time to get by there. Maybe they can give AG Holder a ride?

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/21/dillon-taylor-salt-lake-city-7-11-police-shooting/
 
As a life long resident of St. Louis with family and friends on both the city and county police forces I am just sick of the fact that the local, national, and international media and a particular segment of the local populace is in such a hurry to lynch this officer. A decorated six-year veteran of his police force.

Equality? There is no equality. If there was there would not be a crowd of outsiders (the vast majority of those arrested are not from the community) yelling; "Indict! Convict!". Instead there would be a call for due process to run its course. If there was equality there would be reported facts like the officer's severe facial injuries, the dozen or so witnesses that offer a view more favorable to the officer ("Snitches get stitches." is spray painted on many buildings in the area), and there would be more coverage of the fact that the Depatment of Just-Us has "asked" the local police forces not to release information to the press. The video of Mr Brown robbing the store for example. Or pictures of the officer's injuries.

Equality is a myth. As long as we remain humans with emotions there will always be prejudice, greed, jealousy and all of the other faults that make us what we are. But the press and our stinking state government might make some attempt at living up to their rhetoric on the subject instead of railroading this fine young man.

There is a Facebook page called "I Support Officer Wilson" that now has 55,000 followers. If you agree with my humble opinion I ask that you join this group and show you support as well.


I support the police officer...I DONT support Facebook. Hence to why I don't have an account.
 
I can't let a thing like this go by without saying something. To do so would be like inviting the undertaker in with a dolly for a Roll In.
No gloating Slappy.
I am in the cop's corner on this one.
From the short time I spent in Sunny Southeast Asia, I understand shooting until the threat is gone. This porker may have been hassellling to a point before the contact but when he knew Brown was a bad guy or he believed him to be so, the gloves are off.
If you are pushed by a bully trying to get your gun, sorry, ain't going that way. I would guess that there is powder stippling on his body armor from the first shot.
I do understand about using more than the shots necessary to de-fuse the situation. I have done it a few times myself, drennies runnin,
Now we have the Big Eric down talking to the POOR parents. Did he talk to the guy with his eye beat in? Does he give a fuck about him?
OK rant over, Regards, FM
 
just thought I would throw this in here.

Today at work, a customer and I were having a conversation about this. This was an older gentleman, and as far as I could see with his conversation he was conservative and honorable. He sees things as they are without anger towards any race, religion, etc.

He made comments on where our country was going and we agreed we were not proud with a few things. With that he stated that:

He had been a police officer during the 60's in California during the riots. He stated after the arrests and peace following he was greeted by the black folks there (afterwards) with coffee, donuts, breakfast and many thanks in the aftermath.
 
Reply to Pester. You stated, " Other examples such is the Chinese brought to CA to work also exist. Many of those Chinese in the Sierras were by definition slaves and they, as a culture, are not generally seen as being in the victim culture". Could you more specific? Are you talking about the Rail Road?
 
Also, during a recent speech here in St. Louis the Reverend Sharpton referred to some whites as "crackers".

But, that's different. Al's not a racists; he's black,
 
Ok. How the hell is that a racist term? Cracker. I have never felt insulted by the term. Going to show my ignorance by saying what the hell does it actually mean?
 
ok i'll jump in.

Cracker. white man who would "crack" his whip. a "slave" term. in these days a cracker can be white, Mexican, etc. aka : the man. a boss (bossing people around) is a "cracker"
Honkey. white pimps of the o'l days when white pimps wouldn't get out of their cars to get their "ho's". they would honk their horns. honkey.
 
Tell your daughters their boyfriends they best not sit out in the driveway and honk their horn for them ;)
 
Still not insulted. Thanks did not think about Wikipedia

In my opinion the point is not whether you or I are insulted. Frankly, I take everything Al Sharpton says with a big bunch of salt. The point is that he and others purporting to want justice and to be representing Ferguson and the family of Mr. Brown find the use of a racial slur to describe black people (by anyone other than other blacks judging by what I see and hear in the community) is an offense. However, the use of a slur to described white people is okay. Carried a step further, Mr. Brown should have been afforded every break and benefit of the doubt but Officer Wilson should be villified and convicted before the grand jury even returns an indictment. In fact this afteroon a group a group of what was described as citizens, clergy and community leaders "demanded" the immediate firing of Officer Wilson and his indictment for murder, an immediate recall election for the mayor and police chief of Ferguson, and the recusement of Bob McCullough as prosecuting attorney from he case, among other things. Indeed even Eric Holder is saying that Officer Wilson may be the subject of a number of federal lawsuits before a case has even been presented.

Obviously living in the community makes a difference and as such I am exposed to a different level of media coverage than happens on a national level. Moreover, I have a a lot of family and friends on local police forces. However, I still think it is a valid point that what is sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander. If you're going to carry the banner demanding justice and fairness then you should realize that justice happens on a two-way street and judge yourself by the same standards by which you judge others.
 
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And you have CRACKER ASS CRACKER

A white person, usually ignorant and/or racist, for whom the racial slur cracker - while capturing the essence of the individual's personality - does not quite seem to fully capture the extent of the individual's ignorant and/or racist behavior without being used twice. The word "ass" is therefore used to break up the dual usage of the term cracker - not only to emphasize the insult by adding an expletive (for example the way "punk bitch" is enhanced: "punk ass bitch"), but also because using the same word twice in a row doesn't sound right.

Often used somewhat under one's breath in disgust after having just made a point about an individual who is indeed a cracker, or the aforementioned cracker ass cracker.
white guy with a stupid grin on his face trying to sound cool: "for shizzle, my nizzle"

any black person: "mothafuckin' what??? shut yo fuckin' mouth ya little bitch! ....cracka ass cracka..."

The cracka in Cracker ass cracker (also Cracka ass cracka) is almost never pronounced cracker.
 
And you have CRACKER ASS CRACKER

A white person, usually ignorant and/or racist, for whom the racial slur cracker - while capturing the essence of the individual's personality - does not quite seem to fully capture the extent of the individual's ignorant and/or racist behavior without being used twice. The word "ass" is therefore used to break up the dual usage of the term cracker - not only to emphasize the insult by adding an expletive (for example the way "punk bitch" is enhanced: "punk ass bitch"), but also because using the same word twice in a row doesn't sound right.

Often used somewhat under one's breath in disgust after having just made a point about an individual who is indeed a cracker, or the aforementioned cracker ass cracker.
white guy with a stupid grin on his face trying to sound cool: "for shizzle, my nizzle"

any black person: "mothafuckin' what??? shut yo fuckin' mouth ya little bitch! ....cracka ass cracka..."

The cracka in Cracker ass cracker (also Cracka ass cracka) is almost never pronounced cracker.

Now you talkin like an Ofey, dawg.
 
Yup, that guy gets it.

It would help if we knew what happened but of course we don't really know what happened because the police force there doesn't want cameras. How do I know? I see millions upon millions of dollars in military equipment, camo, armored vehicles , etc etc arrayed against the people in that town, but there's no money to document what their officers actually do everyday, we just gotta trust them. Spare no expense for items that physically protect the police, but no money for items that protect the rights of the people. Just because there are some animals who take advantage of a situation and loot doesn't mean there isn't room for righteous anger here as there are plenty of examples of totally unjustified aggression by police in this country. There will be more and more unrest as Americans wake up to the armies on their streets.
Got the opposite problem here. We just got body cams at $400 plus per officer but we only have 5 tasers for a 10 person department and 2 of those are not working. I agree with having cameras, audio recorders etc but officer safety equipment comes first. And no there really are not that many examples of totally unjustified aggression by police. The tin foil is strong with you.
Pat
 
Reply to Pester. You stated, " Other examples such is the Chinese brought to CA to work also exist. Many of those Chinese in the Sierras were by definition slaves and they, as a culture, are not generally seen as being in the victim culture". Could you more specific? Are you talking about the Rail Road?

Pester, apologies for butting in but I'm jumping in on this one. However, no apologies for plagiarism below. I don't have time this morning to be particularly original.

[MENTION=77524]pawprint2[/MENTION], what Pester is referring to is primarily indentured servitude. While the preponderance of indentured servants began their "service" with a contract, the term is used to gloss over the fact that many of them were, in the strictest sense, nothing more than slaves plucked from places such as debtors prison. It is an ugly stain on western history that crosses several cultures and races, so I won't limit my response to the Chinese. Countrymen preyed upon countrymen. Most of the first indentured servants were English brought over by English. The Chinese indentured servant trade was primarily managed by Chinese. Before the Civil War, slaves and indentured servants were considered personal property, and they or their descendants could be sold or inherited like any other personal property. Like other property, human chattel was governed largely by laws of individual states. Indentured servants were individuals who bargained away their labor in exchange for passage to the New World. Employers, perhaps too gentle a term, could not care less about race. They were in the business of empire building.

In the 17th century, indentured servants made up the mass of English immigrants to the Chesapeake colonies and were central to the development of the tobacco industry. Indentured servitude continued to be an important institution in the Atlantic world through the 19th century. Debates persist about the general characteristics of early indentured servants, but they were certainly primarily younger English men in search of new opportunities for wealth and advancement that were unavailable to them at home. Some people achieved this goal, but many more either died before their contract expired or were unable to rise above a relatively moderate status in the colonies. In the 17th century, most indentured servants were of English origin and migrated to the Chesapeake and West Indies. Of the 120,000 emigrants to the Chesapeake during this era, roughly 90,000 arrived as bound laborers. Another 50,000 to 75,000 white indentured servants went to the islands, although these numbers included many Irish servants, political prisoners, and convict laborers. Indentured servitude did eventually become much more diverse, particularly during the 18th century when increasing numbers of German redemptioners arrived and an increasing percentage of people chose to locate themselves in nonplantation zones, especially Pennsylvania. Perhaps 150,000 non-English migrants arrived as servants during the late colonial period. During the 19th century, large numbers of Indian and Chinese migrant laborers were bound into servitude to perform tasks once the responsibility of enslaved Africans. Scholars disagree about whether or not this new system was simply a new form of slavery. Regardless, as late as the first decades of the 20th century, unfree laborers—effectively the descendants of the mass of indentured servants who first appeared nearly four hundred years earlier—could still be found toiling in subjugation in the old plantation zones of North America and the Caribbean.

White Servitude

http://www.colorado.edu/ibs/eb/alst...l_of_Indentured_Servitude_in_the_Americas.pdf

With respect to the Chinese, railroad building and westward expansion created a huge demand for labor that neither voluntary immigration from Europe nor involuntary internal migration could satisfy. To make up the labor deficit, the railroads looked to China as a source of inexpensive labor. On paper, the Chinese “coolies” appeared to be voluntary migrants enlisted by brokers in China to work for American employers who paid the broker and shipping agent and collected the debt from the Chinese employees’ wages. In practice, most were forced into service in China and placed in occupations and regions in the United States where alternative employment was impossible, leaving them at the employer’s mercy. This credit-ticket system, which brought 350,000 Chinese laborers to the American mainland between 1840 and 1882, embodied many features of the old indentured labor system. In contrast to earlier European immigrants, however, the Chinese were never encouraged to become permanent settlers or citizens and were prohibited from doing so after 1882.

The Chinese in California, 1850-1925 - History - Collection Connections | Teacher Resources - Library of Congress
 
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Got the opposite problem here. We just got body cams at $400 plus per officer but we only have 5 tasers for a 10 person department and 2 of those are not working. I agree with having cameras, audio recorders etc but officer safety equipment comes first. And no there really are not that many examples of totally unjustified aggression by police. The tin foil is strong with you.
Pat
I would never even consider a one shot taser as a first choice weapon. Only if there were three or four others with firearms drawn with me would it be an option. If I think my life is in jeopardy a one shot weapon would never be a good choice.
 
In reply to Moses the Tank, One of the best books ever written on the subject of the Transcontinental Railroad, was written by Stephen Ambrose, "Nothing like it in the world". Highly recommend it. When talking about, "slavery", or "new form of slavery", I believe it is too easy to go far afield. As today, one could argue, the people in xxxx are virtual slaves due to the fact the are uneducated and have little or no opportunity to leave...... Were the Chinese immigrants that worked on the railroad heading east paid the same as the crews working in the East heading west? Yes. Were the Chinese immigrants working on the railroad construction heading east, supplied with good high quality food of their own choosing? Yes. Now if they had a deal with someone in China, that is hardly slavery, in the classic sense. Very few people alive today (with the exception of some remote African tribes etc) do not have relatives/forefathers that at one time were slaves. Slavery goes back almost as far as when men started walking on two feet. In fact, some African and middle east countries still have slavery!! I've always been amazed at how so many cowards in the US don't mind screaming about how bad slavery is, but they never seem to put together a fighting force, go to Africa and kill all the current day slave holders....guess they don't mind it as much as they say. I have no love for slavery-at all, but we've to get over it. There isn't one person alive today that was ever a slave, nor anyone that ever met a person that was ever a slave( in the US). Back on subject, many of the Chinese that came to the US to build the railway, had no intentions of staying, but rather, saw it as a good way to make top money , they had every intent to return the "celestial Kingdom" when the job was done. In fact the non- Chinese in the west referred to these guys as Celests--as they [the Chinese workers] frequently talked about returning home, they didn't refer to china as china, but rather "The Celestial Kingdom".
 
I would never even consider a one shot taser as a first choice weapon. Only if there were three or four others with firearms drawn with me would it be an option. If I think my life is in jeopardy a one shot weapon would never be a good choice.

The public thinks in terms of what they see on TV and their myths are propagated by those with an agenda.

The myth is that tasers are 100 percent and cause no harm. I know of two incidents that refute both parts of this.

A. Female police officer performing cover for officer using taser on knife wielding man had to use .38 super when taser failed to stop knife wielding man. Sure anything mechanical can fail. The darts wouldn't penetrate his clothing. If you only have one chance, and no cover on scene, FS1 is correct in questioning which tool do you want to go for.

B. Officer involved in taser training was assured the device would cause him no injury. Officer had advised that an on the job injury resulted in steel rods being inserted in both legs. Trainers said no issue. Result - banged up officer. People shouldn't put themselves in situations to get either tased or shot. Adding more use of force options could create a fallacy "Hey this will cause no harm" and perhaps make it more likely force may be used when otherwise it would not.

Point being tasers do not always work and when they do they may still cause injury. You cant have your cake and eat it too although people like to promote doing just that. A few years ago I recall a certain New York Mayor lauding a city officer that "shot the gun out of the hand" of an assailant. The gist was "look how well trained the officer was" and the idea being shouldn't every officer shoot this well. The fact it was a female officer also made the propaganda story one of "so easy a girl can do it". I suggest it was a "failure" in the sense her brain over rode her training to shoot center mass and fixated on the falsely perceived threat - the gun. The gun is not the threat, the perpetrator is the threat although this particular city Mayor giving out the award would have you think otherwise.

I couldn't shoot the gun out of someones hand if I tried under good conditions but under stress, using simunitions, I certainly pissed off my trainer when I nailed his ring finger in a scenario. I failed - he used his index finger and put six simunitions in my chest.
 

Because, it's not about Police brutality or militarization.

It's about white Police brutality vs blacks, and white police militarization in black neighborhoods.

I spent like two hours trying to find the race of those involved in the salt lake shooting incident, (this was well before most people even knew about the incident outside of salt lake) and I couldnt, not mention of it, we'd even then I only found out the race of the victim, never did find the cops before I gave up. (Black is what's being reported for both of them.)

It took me less the a minute to fine out the race of those involved in the Ferguson incident. (Minus the cop who's name and such wasn't releases for a while)


Just like the 4 or 5 other shootings that have happened since Ferguson, it doesn't fit the media's agenda of white officer and black victim, so they are unreported.
 
Just like the 4 or 5 other shootings that have happened since Ferguson, it doesn't fit the media's agenda of white officer and black victim, so they are unreported.

In the Ferguson case they had a black man ( Johnson ) that got up in front of the camera and lied. That is what made the story.

Can anyone post that first video from CNN where ( Johnson ) said "we wasn't doing anything wrong"
 
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Tasers are great tools the best thing I have seen in 15 years for less lethal situations. Far better than OC or batons. However they are not a substitute for a gun.


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The public thinks in terms of what they see on TV and their myths are propagated by those with an agenda.

The myth is that tasers are 100 percent and cause no harm. I know of two incidents that refute both parts of this.

A. Female police officer performing cover for officer using taser on knife wielding man had to use .38 super when taser failed to stop knife wielding man. Sure anything mechanical can fail. The darts wouldn't penetrate his clothing. If you only have one chance, and no cover on scene, FS1 is correct in questioning which tool do you want to go for.

B. Officer involved in taser training was assured the device would cause him no injury. Officer had advised that an on the job injury resulted in steel rods being inserted in both legs. Trainers said no issue. Result - banged up officer. People shouldn't put themselves in situations to get either tased or shot. Adding more use of force options could create a fallacy "Hey this will cause no harm" and perhaps make it more likely force may be used when otherwise it would not.

Point being tasers do not always work and when they do they may still cause injury. You cant have your cake and eat it too although people like to promote doing just that. A few years ago I recall a certain New York Mayor lauding a city officer that "shot the gun out of the hand" of an assailant. The gist was "look how well trained the officer was" and the idea being shouldn't every officer shoot this well. The fact it was a female officer also made the propaganda story one of "so easy a girl can do it". I suggest it was a "failure" in the sense her brain over rode her training to shoot center mass and fixated on the falsely perceived threat - the gun. The gun is not the threat, the perpetrator is the threat although this particular city Mayor giving out the award would have you think otherwise.

I couldn't shoot the gun out of someones hand if I tried under good conditions but under stress, using simunitions, I certainly pissed off my trainer when I nailed his ring finger in a scenario. I failed - he used his index finger and put six simunitions in my chest.

As a preface to this comment, I generally try not to get myself involved in discussions like this so as not to let my catfish sized mouth overload my hummingbird sized behind because I'm not quite as eloquent as some here. But I may be able to to provide some relevant experience as far as less lethal options go. So hopefully you guys will take it easy on me...
I can't remember the exact amount of time since, but I was trained and issued a taser somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 years ago. In the years before that, expandable batons and O.C. spray were the only option a available. When we certified with O.C., we got sprayed and had to run through a gauntlet consisting of several trainers that we had to fight through, and the final stage being one of the trainers fighting to get a red gun out of our holsters. The purpose of this, as most law enforcement knows, is to prove that although painful, it is possible to defend yourself after exposure. Plus, it gave me some respect for the chemical, and while I carried it, it caused me to really weigh my options in a given situation before deploying it. It also gave me a false sense of confidence in its effectiveness due to the way I reacted to my exposure (READ rookie mistake).
I used this stuff on two different occasions operationally before stowing it in my car for use on dogs because my personal experience found it terribly unreliable. Both subjects were drunk and violent. The first being on a vehicle crash and the second, a domestic dispute. Neither subject seemed phased in the least by it, and to date, the one in the crash handed me the worst beating of my life. I put way to many eggs in that basket. In both instances, I got a healthy dose of it as well which just added to the problem. Pepper spray works best on cops.
I have known people that were masters in the art of baton techniques, but I never trained with it enough to have any confidence with its proper use outside of shattering car windows, so I have almost no experience with this particular tool.
On to tasers... As painful as this is, and I've taken the ride a few times, it's been a great tool when it works. The keyword is WHEN it works. I am as OCD about maintaining and testing my equipment as I think anyone could be, and in these short few years since I've been carrying one, I'm working on my third unit to date. The other two spark tested and functioned normally before my tour started. One failed when I attempted to deploy it and luckily I wasn't alone. The other, I noticed it activated in my holster (safety still engaged) while I was driving down the interstate. Thank goodness it didn't hit me, but it was an electronic malfunction all the same and it was repeatable so I had witnesses. Also, while 5 Seconds of that badness is enough to take the starch out of most anyone, it's been my experience that several drug fueled confrontations proved that it can incapacitate a subject for the 5 second ride, but anyone so motivated can bounce right back and be just as much or more violent than before. And as well trained as I feel that I am (not intending to sound cocky), I couldn't handcuff anyone while dodging taser wires I'm 5 seconds flat on my best day. Especially alone.
Conversely, and I guess if I'm going to draw heat for this post it will be here, I've never had a duty round from any of my weapon systems fail in literally tens of thousands of rounds in over a decade. So in a life threatening situation, this is where my confidence lies. It's just the ugly truth.
Now I'm not weighing in on either side of this situation in Ferguson, especially until all the facts are released. But I can definitely see where deadly force becomes a viable option with a crushed eye and fighting for your gun, if that part of the story is correct. I need to believe that the better majority of us enter into this type of life with the right intents and purposes. I've never set out with the intent to hurt anyone, especially unprovoked, as some of the god awful videos that are floating around. But it is my firm belief that in order to be effective in this line of work, you have to have some propensity for violence (only when it's necessary, of course). The old moniker of officer survival and making it home at the end of tour is from my father's and grandfather's time on the job. While that is still as important as it has ever been, I do not believe it is enough anymore. We train to win the fight. If we aren't doing that, then what is it exactly that we are trying to accomplish? We don't go searching for violent criminals just to break contact in order to survive and allow them to continue doing whatever caused us to pursue them in the first place. It's not some contest where I'm trying to see how many times I can escape a situation with my life.
As it is, I have become comfortable with the idea that no matter how just I know my actions are, everything I do will likely be met with some amount of criticism and armchair quarterbacking from people with no real world experience in my field. Took a while to get here, but there's no sense in getting worked up over things I can't control. Just gotta take care of me and mine.
Okay, rant over...