Subs to Aussies - Sound off on thoughts?

[jbailey]

So we 'stole' the Aussie sub deal from the French.

My perception is we are offering to share 50+yrs of nuclear propulsion secrets with them, technology/capabilities hereto only shared with the Brits. The end result will be a weapon platform with significantly enhanced lethality and survivability over the French offerings, thereby increasing the deterrence value. The probability of peace in the Pacific has increased as a result.

Is this a correct read?

I continue to think we need to sell 2000 Stingers and 1000 Naval Strike Missiles to ROC, delivery date tomorrow, but I am happy with this sub deal as first step.

Sound off Hide....

 

[candyx]

Will those subs even function in Australia when inverted in the water ?

 

[Rthur]

It's been my experience that if the gov/media rattle their sabers on a deal
there has to be an ulterior motive/goal.
Would seem to be a spit in the CCP eye, could be theater.
Time will tell.

R

 

[Maggot]

Ive read of it. Most anything the ChiComs are against Im for. Delivery isnt supposed to be until aroud 2040? so they may be out of date by hten, LOL.

 

[Son of Dorn]

Will those subs even function in Australia when inverted in the water ?

They just have to remember to dive counterclockwise 'cause of the coriolis effect.

 

[Son of Dorn]

Ive read of it. Most anything the ChiComs are against Im for. Delivery isnt supposed to be until aroud 2040? so they may be out of date by hten, LOL.

The Columbia-class subs should be out by 2031, so if that's the tech we're gonna help the Ozzies with, shouldn't be too out of date.

But considering the Ohio-class boats are all at least two decades old and still going strong, what does out-of-date even mean?

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

this place is the webMD of national security.

Just here to bump my post count to get in the UGPX

 

[Son of Dorn]

They have too much prop noise.

You can actually tell were every older sub is located just by carefully listening for each sub's own unique prop noise.

Kind of like when that 1975 Chebby truck with no muffler goes by my house at 6AM every day, or the Harley comes home at 2 AM when the bars close.

Rice-burner would-be "biker gang" rocketing down the street weekend nights purely for the sake of being loud and obnoxious...

But yeah, that makes sense. I recall how in Red October etc they could discern class from prop sound, so it's only logical that eventually individual boats would get a unique signature. Hell I think that's even a plot point in Star Wars and Trek both with spacecraft.

As for was this a good idea? Far as I see, yeah. I didn't even know the French still had a military presence in the Pacific, while we have an agreement with the Aussies and Canadians for support in that half of the world if China or whoever decides to do Pearl Harbor Pt 2. Better our subs be on more equal footing and design in that case, I would think. Parts commonality, familiarity with the designs, could make training easier too.

 

[candyx]

We sold them a fleet of Balao Class Subs

 

[Son of Dorn]

We sold them a fleet of Balao Class Subs

God but I do love the way WWII subs looked. There's a beauty to them that current boats just don't have.

Wrote my senior thesis on U-boats and spent so much time poring over schematics and photos and blueprints. I've got a copy of the Kriegsmarine's U-Boat Commander's Handbook somewhere, too. Had an interesting little chapter about How To Scupper Your Boat.

 

[Liberator52]

Can't believe the Aussies still trust us with the bonehead dimwits we have running the country now. We should have been giving them our older subs instead of decommissioning them all along.

 

[candyx]

Can't believe the Aussies still trust us with the bonehead dimwits we have running the country now. We should have been giving them our older subs instead of decommissioning them all along.

The bonehead dimwits they are but when money is involved for their pockets then they become very astute.

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

Can't believe the Aussies still trust us with the bonehead dimwits we have running the country now. We should have been giving them our older subs instead of decommissioning them all along.

From one commie state to another. What's to distrust.

 

[stefan73]

We didn't steal anything.

The French and their shitty work ethic gave us the deal after cost over runs, failure to produce and asking for a month off work after again failing to produce while asking for more money.

 

[david walter]

What can go wrong selling nuke subs to a totalitarian regime who’s beating down their own people?

 

[pmclaine]

Good way to give China our latest tech.

Aussies will deliver right up the Yangtze after putting down their people.

 

[pmclaine]

We sold them a fleet of Balao Class Subs

@308pirate got a boner.

 

[91Eunozs]

As @Maggot mentions above, in general, if the Chicoms are against it…I’m for it.

On the surface this seems like a breach of contract that seriously impacts our relationship with an important ally, but something wasn’t right with that deal from the beginning. And again, if it’s a wrench in the gears of a total Chinese takeover of the South Pacific and Indian Oceans, then giddy-up!

 

[Sean the Nailer]

I dunno, but from what I understand, as soon as one of them Aussie's tries to flush the toilet, the sub is gonna sink. All the plumbing is "the wrong way" for them 'down under'.

 

[308pirate]

The Columbia-class subs should be out by 2031, so if that's the tech we're gonna help the Ozzies with, shouldn't be too out of date.

But considering the Ohio-class boats are all at least two decades old and still going strong, what does out-of-date even mean?

We're not giving anyone access to our ballistic missile submarines or any technology around them

The deal is for attack submarines

 

[rjacobs]

I watch a guy on youtube called "sub brief" and he had a 15 minute video on it the other day. I think he spent 20 years in the Navy on subs...and I believe he is a current day consultant on nuke sub stuff also...

He was all for this deal. He talks through it. He also said they will be based in Washington state at least initially.

 

[308pirate]

I watch a guy on youtube called "sub brief" and he had a 15 minute video on it the other day. I think he spent 20 years in the Navy on subs...and I believe he is a current day consultant on nuke sub stuff also...

He was all for this deal. He talks through it. He also said they will be based in Washington state at least initially.

He did say that but he is mistaken. The article he read from said the boats will be based in 'WA".

He assumed it meant Washington. It means Western Australia, the Australian state where HMAS Stirling (the home of the RAN Submarine Service) is located.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

If they are waving a bright shiny object in your face. Rest assured that there's something hinky in the background

 

[Mulga]

Been saying we should have gone nuclear for the last 10 years. The diesel electric deal was a obsolete from the start, but it was a political decision; much anti-war, anti-nuclear sentiment here. I think the move to nuclear is needed, the China threat is a no joke and over ridden or won out any political argument; survival takes precedence. Over all the there is now wide support for the move to nuclear subs.

 

[candyx]

Biden told Obama he beat out Subway to sell subs to Australia .

 

[sirhrmechanic]

 

[candyx]

She had a nice set of torpedos ......

 

[sirhrmechanic]

She had a nice set of torpedos ......

Wonderbra…. When she takes it off you go “I Wonder where her tits went?”

Sirhr

 

[candyx]

I went on the USS Growler , it was like walking inside a beer can designed for short Americans.

 

[theLBC]

jobs?

 

[308pirate]

@308pirate got a boner.

3rd class midshipman cruise, USS Sunfish (SSN-649), July 1985 Charleston SC. That was an epic summer for several reasons

Random pics of other Sturgeon class subs to show what it was like

Maneuvering room with reactor operator in the foreground, electrician of the watch leaning on the console, engineering officer of the watch looking at something in the corner, and no throttleman since it appears the main engines are secured (red sign on throttles)

Port fwd corner of control with the helmsman, planesman, chief of the watch, diving officer, officer of the deck and apparently some under-instruction guys and drill monitors.

The business end

 

[candyx]

How do they deal with the sailor who ate hormel chili for breakfast and blows wind on his shift, does everyone suffer in silence .

 

[308pirate]

How do they deal with the sailor who ate hormel chili for breakfast and blows wind on his shift, does everyone suffer in silence .

If that's what he had for breakfast, so did everyone else.......

 

[308pirate]

Oh yeah fuck the Navy Working Uniform

Bring back modernized dungarees and khakis

 

[pmclaine]

Oh yeah fuck the Navy Working Uniform

Bring back modernized dungarees and khakis

Chambray and khaki cotton with the expectation creases are for inspection and liberty......not for work or war.

 

[Praetorian_6]

A life on the Army makes me appreciate the way the US Navy and Air Force can prevent me from being needed. I love how the 2nd biggest AF in the world is the US Navy. Keep kicking ass, boys!

 

[Fig]

Will those subs even function in Australia when inverted in the water ?

Their version will have the sail on the keel, and the propeller blades will be reverse pitch.

 

[iceng]

Aussies already make boats*. We are diesel electric, and now changing to nuclear. Giant nothing-burger.

*Boats sink, ships float

 

[mtrmn]

I know absolutely nothing about the subject of this thread, nor have I read the complete thread. BUT if the current administration thinks this is a good thing, it's a bad thing for the United States.

 

[jbailey]

So how dangerous are these attack subs to a marine landing force?

Seems to me, very. Each sub has ~35-65 weapon systems, cruise missiles and/or torpedoes, very accurate and capable of doing serious damage to a surface combatant or logistical target. The cruise missile can also hit airfields and SAM sites. These weapons can be delivered from the littoral, meaning time on target is fast. And cruise missiles and torpedo technology and lethality is rapidly increasing.

The detectability and therefore survivability are major advantages to the sub, presenting major headaches to enemy war planners. This makes them the ideal delivery and deterrence platform, albeit one that costs A LOT of money. However, they are significantly cheaper than Carrier Strike Groups, and perhaps more survivability given the detectability advantage.

1 of these attack subs could make it a bad day to attempt a beach landing on ROC. 10 of them would make it nearly impossible. Unless I'm wrong on the tactical advantages of the weapon.

 

[deersniper]

Good way to give China our latest tech.

Aussies will deliver right up the Yangtze after putting down their people.

Yup my first thought

 

[charnicus]

**Unclassified**

You guys may be surprised to know our Navy has a cross decking program for Sonar Techs with the Australian Navy. An old shipmate of mine had Aussie “Fish”. Pretty cool really.

We also share fire control systems (what is AN/BYG-1), Mk48 Adcap torpedo, etc.

**Unclassified**

 

[JoshPutman]

Good way to give China our latest tech.

Aussies will deliver right up the Yangtze after putting down their people.

Shades of Afghanistan

 

[308pirate]

Chambray and khaki cotton with the expectation creases are for inspection and liberty......not for work or war.

Dressing up working uniforms with creases and spitshine is a stupid and uniquely American affectation.

If sailors (officers and chiefs included) need to go ashore farther than pierside, they can change into clean working uniforms or the service uniform of the day. If they want to go off base, they can do so in civvies or the service uniform of the day. Going ashore in working uniforms is very unprofessional and I'm glad it wasn't allowed when I was in.

The NWU bullshit started with the blue camo one because some survey said sailors "didn't feel like warriors" wearing this:

Well, these hard motherfuckers didn't need a special uniform with bloused trousers to feel like warriors, because they WERE warriors

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Folks, what's wrong with selling the subs to both France and Australia?

My answer....

Selling submarines and their technology to Australia is pretty much the same as selling them to China outright.

The French at least try to retain some self respect.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Obsolescence is in the eye of the beholder.

Dead is dead:

...an M-3 Sheridan will kill you just as dead as an M1A2 Abrams...

...A Brown Bess will kill you just as dead as an AIAW...

I could go on...

If you believe the Chinese,,,,,

If they say they're against it, they want it bad....

...and don't be so sure they actually need it so bad.

 

[308pirate]

Aussies already make boats*. We are diesel electric, and now changing to nuclear. Giant nothing-burger.

*Boats sink, ships float

You don't have the infrastructure and know-how to make, fuel, and install nuclear reactors and their associated steam plant. Eventually you will, but not soon enough get these boats in service before 2030.

BAE Systems is maxed out in its Barrow-in-Furness shipyard, the only one in the UK capable of building nuke boats. It has to expand to accommodate building both Astute class SSNs and the new Dreadnought class SSBNs. There's no capacity left for yours.

We have two yards, General Dynamics Electric Boat, and Newport News Shipbuilding. NNS is the largest nuclear capable shipyard in the world, which also builds all our aircraft carriers and has capacity to spare. As the assembly efficiency of the Virginia class boats continues to improve, more capacity will be available at Electric Boat as well (which has less land area than NNS).

Your next boats will be American-made.

 

[jbailey]

We have two yards, General Dynamics Electric Boat, and Newport News Shipbuilding. NNS is the largest nuclear capable shipyard in the world, which also builds all our aircraft carriers and has capacity to spare. As the assembly efficiency of the Virginia class boats continues to improve, more capacity will be available at Electric Boat as well (which has less land area than NNS).

Your next boats will be American-made.

Go Huntington Ingalls!!!

308,
do you think the hulls will be Virginia-class or Astute-class based? I imagine they aren't going to go all in with a Virginia Block V sized hull... that would be a massive first step, but a Block IV Virginia vs an Astute ... VLS and tubes or all tubes?

 

[pmclaine]

Dressing up working uniforms with creases and spitshine is a stupid and uniquely American affectation.

If sailors (officers and chiefs included) need to go ashore farther than pierside, they can change into clean working uniforms or the service uniform of the day. If they want to go off base, they can do so in civvies or the service uniform of the day. Going ashore in working uniforms is very unprofessional and I'm glad it wasn't allowed when I was in.

The NWU bullshit started with the blue camo one because some survey said sailors "didn't feel like warriors" wearing this:
View attachment 7708671

Well, these hard motherfuckers didn't need a special uniform with bloused trousers to feel like warriors, because they WERE warriors
View attachment 7708679

The last iteration of dungarees and chambray, correct me if Im wrong, was neither denim nor chambray. Had to add some polyester to maintain those neat creases and perhaps leave a bit less oil or paint staining.

Besides not being as comfortable as cotton it ensures any burns suffered will include your uniform as part of the problem.

The Marine Corps did similar in fucking up their uniforms.

Many books of WWII Marines express their satisfaction at breaking out the comfortable cotton khakis for duty, even preferred to the herring bone combat dungarees and blouse which are somewhat heavy and not breathable which I can attest to having worn them - not in WWII though - nor LARPing but as a field coat with nice pockets to hold ammo.

Cotton khaki pants and a blue chambray shirt are pretty much my uniform when not in uniform.

Need soome air conditioning roll the sleeves and undo a button. Want some warmth add a sweater.

 

[iceng]

You don't have the infrastructure and know-how to make, fuel, and install nuclear reactors and their associated steam plant. Eventually you will, but not soon enough get these boats in service before 2030.

BAE Systems is maxed out in its Barrow-in-Furness shipyard, the only one in the UK capable of building nuke boats. It has to expand to accommodate building both Astute class SSNs and the new Dreadnought class SSBNs. There's no capacity left for yours.

We have two yards, General Dynamics Electric Boat, and Newport News Shipbuilding. NNS is the largest nuclear capable shipyard in the world, which also builds all our aircraft carriers and has capacity to spare. As the assembly efficiency of the Virginia class boats continues to improve, more capacity will be available at Electric Boat as well (which has less land area than NNS).

Your next boats will be American-made.

I disagree with much of this. Unless you hold some high level military intelligence level clearance, or maritime defence contractor with inside knowledge, I'm going to doubt you, or probably everyone here knows the full scope of the deal as to why this happened.