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Suppressors THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

Killer Spade 13

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 28, 2011
1,400
14
75
Roswell, Ga.
OK. A supressor, we get it. But from the stand point of the ignorant and uneducated, such as myself, could SOME brave sole give some sort of indication of how much noise reduction we're talking about here with a .308?

If an unsupressed .308 is BOOOOOOOM, what is a supressed .308?

A BOOOOOOM, or BOOOOOM, or Booooom, or Booom????
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lazlo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">308 suppressed = 22lr </div></div>

I disagree, respectfully of course.
The volume may be similar but someone that has shot and heard both would never confuse one for the other.

Put on a pair of ear protection, either muffs or plugs (rated for around 25-35db reduction) and take a shot unsuppressed with whatever rifle you want.

I feel that to be much more representational.

Either way, the sound is just hard to describe to someone that hasn't heard it because nothing sounds the same.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

Pretty generic. I believe AAC is in your neck of the woods. You should call them up and see if you can get a demo of 2 or 3 of their products.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

It would be good if someone with the technical expertise could do a video and post it with comparisons of supressed and unsupressed rifles being fired.

Too far beyond my little digital video camera abilities.

But, once again, thanks for your generous responses.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lazlo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">308 suppressed = 22lr </div></div>

Not even close.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

Plenty of videos on youtube, but... The videos will not be a true representation of the actual sound - most video cameras have some type of noise canceling features that can tame the " Boom" and gives a false perception of the actual sound.

I'm sure there are plenty of folks in your area that are willing to meet up for some range time - you can do a try before you buy kind of thing.

My AAC Cyclone on a bolt gun is awesome, sound reductions is awesome & recoil reduction is awesome. There are lots of great options out there!
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

Hey, guys, pretty new to long range shooting, but I've been shooting all my life. .30 carbine, 30-30 Win., 30-06, .308, .303, 7mm Rem. Mag., .264 Win. Mag., .22 WRM, .223, and God knows what else.

I just wish someone could come up with some sort of universally understood comparison.

I know, wish in one hand and spit in the other and see which one fills up faster.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

Al, thanks for the feedback. I actually used to work with a guy who is now working for AAC, I had just forgotten the name of the company. I shot one of their .22's. All one could hear was the action working.

I'll give him a buzz this week.

Thanks, Guys.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

A little less than a black cat fire cracker. Quiet enough your ears don't ring without ear protection. That's the best I can do in describing it. I'm sure you have to know someone with a can or maybe someone at your local gun shops can take you to the range to listen to theirs, offer to pay expenses for a range day and I'm sure they would be happy to entertain your questions.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

It's about 136db to 140db at the muzzle shooting a full load 308 out of a suppressor... you might go as low as 133db but not much below that.

So universally figure on it being that loud.

Subsonics are close to a .22 out of a 308 but then those don't go very far as they have a trajectory that looks like a McDonald arch.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lazlo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">308 suppressed = 22lr </div></div>

Not even close. </div></div>

I tend to agree with Lazio...5.56 or .308 suppressed with standard issue MK1 type ears. 308/7.72 or 5.56 the main sound heard is the sonic crack of the bullet: which is what you also hear from a high velocity .22 round.
Lazio has a very simple, easy to understand concept. Your professional and expert description would be?
...Oh, and I don't want to hear any of this check out this "you tube of me shooting my new XZB can." I want a real world, I'm standing right there with or without muffs on demonstration.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Spade 13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK. A supressor, we get it. But from the stand point of the ignorant and uneducated, such as myself, could SOME brave sole give some sort of indication of how much noise reduction we're talking about here with a .308?

If an unsupressed .308 is BOOOOOOOM, what is a supressed .308?

A BOOOOOOM, or BOOOOOM, or Booooom, or Booom????</div></div>

Well it depends what units or scale you want to use. In simple terms no mod = ear defenders definitely on, with a mod = ear defenders can comfortably be off. Obviously dependent on environment. I suppose that is the kind of indication of noise reduction.

Long term with no defenders? I don't know the science.

I do know that sometimes it does not work like that. I think because of sound reflection. All I know is that in some situations the report is so damn noisy you would think there was no mod on the rifle. A study for the Forestry Enterprise over here showed that the mod will reduce noise at the shooter but not down range.

Different mods sound different, but I think that is irrelevant as it is the noise reduction that is the aim

Putting a mod on a rifle with a smaller bore than the mod was designed for (in my case 308 mod on a 223) also delivers big reductions. I am sure the makers would claim it is not optimum, but it I can't tell the difference and it saves the cost of two!
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

My 16" barreled 308 shooting Corbon full velocity ammo through a custom suppressor (basicly a big AAC Cyclone) makes <span style="font-weight: bold">less </span>noise than my bolt action Ruger 77/22 shooting CCI Stinger ammo. The same 22 rifle shooting Federal Match ammo makes less noise.
Im right handed and still put a foam ear plug in my left ear thats facing the muzzel , it wont ring my ears but its still loud.
Same can on a 26" barreled 300 win mag is about the same noise as the short barreled 308
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

I have a 308 20" RRA with a 762SD and M&P15-22
shooting the 308 full power loads and HV 22ammo
they have the same bang, cycle action, but crack seems to be a lil more on the 308 but not much

on my 308 bolt with subs its like i'm using a common office stapler
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

..

If you were standing 25 yards from a modern structure with modern walls, door, windows. If the structure's portals were closed and the listener was inside a room within the structure and you fired a single round away from the structure. If you used a 20" .308 barrel with a superb made can and you used good quality subsonic ammunition:

1. You would be surprised at the quiet sound of your rifle.

2. No one in the building that wasn't expecting the sound would hear it.

3. Few persons expecting to hear your discharge inside the structure would recognize the sound as firearm like. Many would not notice it at all.

4. You could shoot very accurately for perhaps 150 yards.

Frank, your <span style="text-decoration: underline">super-sonics</span> should he <span style="text-decoration: underline">quieter</span> than a .22, your subsonics should be astonishing.

Example, a subsonic 170 grain FP SE shot through a Nemesis 20" through a TT XL has, in my presence, not been heard by the spotter wearing muffs and staring through glass.

"did you fire?"
"yep"
"thought so, damn"

Spade, the reasons I used subsonics is because I read your question as "how quiet can the proper set-up make my .308?" the answer is "so quiet that its on to other issues, primarily accuracy."

1. Barrel length matters
2. Action noise matters
3. Target slap matters
4. Atmospherics matter

Plan on .308, not .223 as you will want to go subsonic and .223 subsonic is a poor performer. I believe .260 is the best way to go.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

There's bound to be a gun shop in the north Hot-Lanta area that sells suppressors <span style="text-decoration: underline">and</span> has an indoor gun range. If you're seriously interested, go audition one.

But don't fall into the trap believing that a suppressor is only about noise reduction. I rarely shoot any of the rifles I have suppressors for unsuppressed but not because it makes them quieter. They also reduce felt recoil as much as 50%. And they tend to improve accuracy, too, because an unmuffled muzzle blast tends to disturb trajectory (albeit very slightly). And the reduction in noise and muzzle blast might also make it easier for the shooter to maintain concentration over an extended shooting session.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pfcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lazlo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">308 suppressed = 22lr </div></div>

Not even close. </div></div>

I tend to agree with Lazio...5.56 or .308 suppressed with standard issue MK1 type ears. 308/7.72 or 5.56 the main sound heard is the sonic crack of the bullet: which is what you also hear from a high velocity .22 round.
Lazio has a very simple, easy to understand concept. Your professional and expert description would be?
...Oh, and I don't want to hear any of this check out this "you tube of me shooting my new XZB can." I want a real world, I'm standing right there with or without muffs on demonstration. </div></div>

I own enough cans to know sound difference. When they do sound testing are they putting ear muffs on the mic? No, they do not. So to say a 308 sounds like a 22 is not correct.

If I made you cover your eyes with no hearing protection and you sat about 10 ft away from the firearms being discharged you would hear a DISTINCT difference in the two platforms. You want a demonstration? Come on over....
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

I'll be at Knob Creek tables at C22, not far down the road.
And I have owned, sold and shot a few suppressors myself since 1986. Very good friends with Phil Dater and have spent several nights at the late Lynn McWilliam's home.
Yes, there will be a difference, I could tell it, you can tell it. Bo, my chow can definitely notice the difference. But the original question was from a new guy looking for a very simple answer. Thus the supersonic crack from a HV .22, a 5.56, 7.62 etc will be VERY similar to someone who (like Killer Spade) has not heard any suppressors fired from anything in the past.
Most of the answers here say something like "about the same noise, or if you were here or over there etc. Well, that is like trying to describe a taste or a smell, just too many variables, starting with human ears. We all hear things differently.
Rolling Thunder makes some good points, but a novice asked a simple question.
But, the fun thing about the internet is getting all the subject matter experts piling on with their biggest dick stories.
For gosh sakes the man asked s very simple question, and I did not see anything in that question about how fast the bullets were going or how far away from the "microphone" he should be standing or even is he should be wearing earmuffs or not.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

As mentioned before, a recording does not really give a true representation. With that said, here is a vid of me shooting a 22" .243 with 105 gr. Amax handloads running at 2950 fps. The suppressor is my .308 suppressor. I am shooting inside my office out of the second story window at a steel plate hanging in front of my range backstop 150 yds away. You can hear the bullet smack the steel after the shot.

 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

The man asked a simple question, and I gave him a simple answer. If he was interested in quantifying the volume or overpressure, then I probably could have provided more specific data.

The main point to the OP is that a 308 suppressed certainly won't be quiet, but it is markedly quieter than an unsuppressed rifle. In my opinion, the reduction in overpressure, volume, and felt recoil are similar to a 22lr to the untrained ear when shooting a SF FA762SS with an 18.5" barrel.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

I am sensitive to gun noise, and .308 suppressed is quiet enough that out in the open (meaning not shooting under a sound reflective roof) I don't wear hearing protection and feel no discomfort.

It doesn't sound like a .22lr because the sound is much longer and drawn out. You can hear the supersonic crack traveling away from you.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

I shoot a DPMS .308 with a YHM suppressor. My buddy, who's filming the hunt through his digiscope, is shooting an un-suppressed .223. We are standing side by side. His voice is much louder than mine, but his mouth is closer to the dvr recorder (and he's talking louder too). You can determine which shots are his from the flash and/or recoil. I wear ear protection because my ears are sensitive. My friend does not wear any.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2IilD7MWnCk&feature=player_embedded"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2IilD7MWnCk&feature=player_embedded" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

By the way, here are the results..
fourb.JPG

threeb.JPG

twob.JPG

oneb.JPG

 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pfcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'll be at Knob Creek tables at C22, not far down the road.
And I have owned, sold and shot a few suppressors myself since 1986. Very good friends with Phil Dater and have spent several nights at the late Lynn McWilliam's home.
Yes, there will be a difference, I could tell it, you can tell it. Bo, my chow can definitely notice the difference. But the original question was from a new guy looking for a very simple answer. Thus the supersonic crack from a HV .22, a 5.56, 7.62 etc will be VERY similar to someone who (like Killer Spade) has not heard any suppressors fired from anything in the past.
Most of the answers here say something like "about the same noise, or if you were here or over there etc. Well, that is like trying to describe a taste or a smell, just too many variables, starting with human ears. We all hear things differently.
Rolling Thunder makes some good points, but a novice asked a simple question.
But, the fun thing about the internet is getting all the subject matter experts piling on with their biggest dick stories.
For gosh sakes the man asked s very simple question, and I did not see anything in that question about how fast the bullets were going or how far away from the "microphone" he should be standing or even is he should be wearing earmuffs or not. </div></div>

I just don't see how you think a suppressed 308 sounds like a 22.... They are not even close in percussion. Hell the sonic crack is even different. 10ft from the gun, being the shooter, or 30 ft away. They all are distinctly different sounds. I am talking standard ammo, not subsonic.

Your not really making any sense now. You are now on the side of "it was a simple question" but you were asking for demonstrations and what not just a few posts earlier. Now we have graduated on to some of the answers he is getting are "biggest dick stories" ? What? I think he is getting some real world data on what he is going to hear from different people. Which is EXACTLY what you said in your above quoted statement. Everyones ears are different. So why would Killer Spade get all the same answers? He wouldn't.... that's the great thing about a public forum, you get more then one perspective.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Spade 13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey, guys, pretty new to long range shooting, but I've been shooting all my life. .30 carbine, 30-30 Win., 30-06, .308, .303, 7mm Rem. Mag., .264 Win. Mag., .22 WRM, .223, and God knows what else.

I just wish someone could come up with some sort of universally understood comparison.

I know, wish in one hand and spit in the other and see which one fills up faster. </div></div>

Imagine the Boom removed. Pffft-CRACK (the bullet going super sonic). If shooting suppressed with ear pro, the crack sound pressure level will sound like about a .22 or .22 mag. That sort of crack, but the crack is moving away from you.

Without ear pro you can tell its a larger caliber than a .22 but it's difficult to describe, the crack moves away from you and it relatively comfortable depending upon your surroundings.

No one can describe it perfectly. Go sample some without ear pro is the best bet.

IMO no suppressor is ear safe with supersonic ammo. More pleasant? Yes. Unless someone can figure out how to get SPL Db levels below about 87Db IMO it ain't "hearing safe".
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

I still wear ear plugs when shooting suppressed for high volumes of fire...
We shoot under a metal roof and the echo can rattle your brains. Even if you get the suppressor, remember to wear your ear pro. Being out in the middle of a wide open space, ya you can crack a few off and be fine.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mnshortdraw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like disconnecting a hose from an air compressor. PFFFFT! Supersonics still have a crack to them but it sounds down range. </div></div>
This is not far off. Very good comparison.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tansinator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"in the middle of a wife open space, ya you can crack a few off and be fine."

Anybody else catch this. That's funny as hell:)</div></div>

Like the lingerie department at Sears? LOL!
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Plan on .308, not .223 as you will want to go subsonic and .223 subsonic is a poor performer. I believe .260 is the best way to go.
</div></div>

Anybody have some load recipes for subsonic .260?
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

You got allot to learn Killer.

No video picks up anywhere near real sound. But THAT video....

Always listen for projectile crack, if that is not there, and it isn't in that video for EITHER the suppressed .223 or the unsupressed .223, then the sound pick-up is particularly terrible. OR you are listening to subsonics, which in a .223 is about the same gas volume as a .22 long rifle. Either way, that video that you "sought" is keerap.

Real World example of Tex-book goofy...

Look how much they were able to suppress this one...pretty damn quiet! I couldn't even hear that in the next room, re-friggin-markable! Thats the ACME DIRT STORM 1000 blast suppressor! No muffs needed here either!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwNS7sGW77k

Then there are these pansies...headphones? headphones? Why? Damn thing is quiet! What the hell were they thinking?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXEdq3UnnFE&feature=related

Time to stop typing and start hearing some cans....

The the the the that's all folks....
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

Hey, RT, I appreciate it, but sometimes it's just not as simple as "hey, go out and listen to some cans". I'm an advisor on a scuba diving board and I'm always heaing, "well, just go out and rent or borrow one." It just doesn't work out like that in the real world.

Limited time, limited budget, propensity of usage, etc . . .
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

Here is a good comparison between super sonic and sub sonic 308s.

The sub sonic is quieter than charging the action!

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dqwEJ6mMf14"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dqwEJ6mMf14" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Spade 13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey, RT, I appreciate it, but sometimes it's just not as simple as "hey, go out and listen to some cans". I'm an advisor on a scuba diving board and I'm always heaing, "well, just go out and rent or borrow one." It just doesn't work out like that in the real world.

Limited time, limited budget, propensity of usage, etc . . .
</div></div>

I understand where your coming from Spade. But, if you have a class 3 dealer in your area Im sure you could arrange a meeting in order to hear some of the cans. But RT must think everyone has unlimited access to suppressors and the fact is not everyone is in a highly populated area. I know a guy around here that has to drive 3 hours to get to his class 3 guy.

YouTube is not a place I would seek specific information but you can see that some videos are serious and some are just plain shit. You still cannot take the sound generated on your computer as a legit source of intel. Do the best you can with what you have around you.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

I was only trying to help.
I know the .223 subsonic is a poor performer but hey even a 308 subsonic is not that practical, or is it. Maybe to 200 yards? I have not yet gone that route yet, still all full power.
 
Re: THE Basic Supressor Question from ALL NEWBIES!!!!

KYS338, appreciate it, my friend.

When the time comes that I can put a suppressor on my Remington, I'll take it and my Ruger to my 100 yard range and do a video with the camera set up about 10 yards in front of the muzzles. I'll shoot the same round in each rife, the barrels are the same length, and record the comparisons. Perhaps that will help settle the question.