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Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

Kalifornia dipshit.....glorifying a bunch of eco freaks who can no more stop the Japanese fleet by endangering tha safety of all those involved is like the nut who drive spikes into the trees so loggers get hurt when their saws hit them. If the Japs are wrong take it to the UN the body that all you liberals love so much and see if their selective justice sytem will work. These clowns represent no legal body or authority, this is piracy.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Toughtalk you know what i have always found interesting? People such as yourself talking about the inhumane treatment of animals while I will bet you have leather goods such as shoes car interior coats or other items made of leather. My question is where do you think it comes from?</div></div>

The store. No animals are harmed there.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cheering them on while they do it is the preserve of morons.</div></div>

I'm not on the side of the whalers; I'm opposed to the eco-terrorists.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

I love that show as it has me routing against the eco guys everytime. I guess that is how you tell if you are a conservative or a liberal.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

If I were that devoted to a cause I would just sink the fuckers outside their own harbor and be done with it.

I respect and enjoy a LOT about Japanese society, this is not one of them.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I respect and enjoy a LOT about Japanese society, this is not one of them. </div></div>

Very well said and I whole-heartedly agree.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

Those that 'think' (and I use that term very lightly) 'liberals' only are opposed to the whalers are blisteringly ignorant of what conservatism actually is.

You dress yourselves up in the clothes of a philosophy you've spent little to no time actually trying to understand and so end up looking like unwashed children wearing adult clothes - ridiculous.

Possibly one of the best Conservative Presidents this country has had was Theodore Roosevelt. He was also an ardent conservationist and used his Presidential status to put into place many safeguards of the American countryside against the exploitations of greedy and powerful individuals and corporations - 'Malfactors with great wealth' he called them.

Roosevelt wasn't a tree hugging liberal - as YOU would call him - but rather, because a true Conservative is not obsessed with the immediate consumption and whims of the mediocre mind, he was concerned with the need to protect and propagate the values and assets of a well maintained country. This is important because a true conservative sees as important the need for future generations to be able to benefit from and enjoy what the present generation does.

If you saw someone doing something illegal and you used force to stop them would you consider yourself a terrorist? No, and you'd be right. The Japs are doing an illegal act. They should be stopped by the authorities but the authorities are useless and so individuals are taking it upon themselves to provide redress. I am grateful to them, they are trying to protect an asset that belongs to ALL of us.

I wonder how many of you who think of these people as 'terrorists' are also people who are disgusted with this administrations inability and refusal to protect our borders and so would consider going the border yourselves to provide redress or some such other needed and common-sense action that the authorities would call vigilantism.

If you have any REAL intention to support Conservatism then please take the time to actually understand it. I would suggest to you get a copy of "The Conservative Mind - From Burke to Eliot" by Russell Kirk and read it.

Being Conservative is a lot more than just hating people with long hair who like nature. It if were really that simple and easy then the Liberals would have done it a long time ago.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

This reminds me of thet brilliant observation sent in the the "letter to the editor" (local editorial in nespaper); stateing that hunters should quit killing inocent animals and just go to the grocery and buy their meat! It matters not which animal the flesh came from, meat is meat, taste is in the beholder. Whaes are a source of food, if conservation is maintained, then tey are food! For those who think they are sentient animals I ask you have the built hospitals to care for their ill? Just what can or have whales done besides eat poop, swim, and have young! (and take) Much like the whinning sniviling users in the human race!
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I wonder how many of you who think of these people as 'terrorists' are also people who are disgusted with this administrations inability and refusal to protect our borders and so would consider going the border yourselves to provide redress or some such other needed and common-sense action that the authorities would call vigilantism.
</div></div>

Good point. I've often considered that.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those that 'think' (and I use that term very lightly) 'liberals' only are opposed to the whalers are blisteringly ignorant of what conservatism actually is.

You dress yourselves up in the clothes of a philosophy you've spent little to no time actually trying to understand and so end up looking like unwashed children wearing adult clothes - ridiculous.

Possibly one of the best Conservative Presidents this country has had was Theodore Roosevelt. He was also an ardent conservationist and used his Presidential status to put into place many safeguards of the American countryside against the exploitations of greedy and powerful individuals and corporations - 'Malfactors with great wealth' he called them.

Roosevelt wasn't a tree hugging liberal - as YOU would call him - but rather, because a true Conservative is not obsessed with the immediate consumption and whims of the mediocre mind, he was concerned with the need to protect and propagate the values and assets of a well maintained country. This is important because a true conservative sees as important the need for future generations to be able to benefit from and enjoy what the present generation does.

If you saw someone doing something illegal and you used force to stop them would you consider yourself a terrorist? No, and you'd be right. The Japs are doing an illegal act. They should be stopped by the authorities but the authorities are useless and so individuals are taking it upon themselves to provide redress. I am grateful to them, they are trying to protect an asset that belongs to ALL of us.

I wonder how many of you who think of these people as 'terrorists' are also people who are disgusted with this administrations inability and refusal to protect our borders and so would consider going the border yourselves to provide redress or some such other needed and common-sense action that the authorities would call vigilantism.

If you have any REAL intention to support Conservatism then please take the time to actually understand it. I would suggest to you get a copy of "The Conservative Mind - From Burke to Eliot" by Russell Kirk and read it.

Being Conservative is a lot more than just hating people with long hair who like nature. It if were really that simple and easy then the Liberals would have done it a long time ago. </div></div>

+1
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I respect and enjoy a LOT about Japanese society, this is not one of them.</div></div>

The Japanese feel think same of us and gun ownership.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

When watching Steve Erwin the Crocodile Hunter i find myself feeling the same.....always was cheering for the crocs or snakes on Croc Hunter....now i just cheer for the Japanese on Whale Wars
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

Conservatism means stewardship. People need to take care of our resources such as whales, trees, rivers, oceans. This doesn't mean no hunting or logging. It means making sure these resources don't disappear. I'm not sure how these guys can be compared to Somali pirates. Kidnapping a tanker for profit is a far cry from trying to stop something that is unjust and illegal. I'm sure these guys are mostly idiots but that doesn't mean what they are trying to bring to light is not valid.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

IMHO, the Whale Wars crew are eco-terrorists and pirates. Glorifying them in TV is like making ELF or Al Qaeda look like well-meaning heroes because all they want is happy, joyful 12th century Islamic rule.

Folks... we are at the top of the food chain. I don't eat whale... I don't contribute to the demand for their meat. But if there is a market for whale... someone will harvest it. If there is a market for seal skin... someone will be happy to bash in seal skulls. Life's rough. That's why it's best to be at the top of the food chain.

Do I support whale harvesting? Frankly, I don't care!!! It's been going on for thousands of years and if it's ok for Eskimos, it should be ok for the Japanese.

But when you start using violence and terror tactics to stop something you don't like... the way the eco-terrorists who burn down hotels/lodges, trash car dealerships, kill loggers... etc. behave... Then you are a terrorist. There is no hyphen in terrorist.... eco-terrorist Islamic-terrorist Irish-terrorist.

Once you are a terrorist (eco or otherwise,) you belong in the wrong end of a precision rifle scope just like a Taliban or an Al Qaeda or a Weathermen bomber or a Red Brigade kidnapper.

The Japanese, who are operating legally under International Law, should take out these eco-terrorists with no more remorse than we would take out UBL. They are cut from the same cloth.

Kill them. Then there will be no Season 2.

Cheers,

Sirhr

PS: Someone should have taken up a collection to Neuter Bob Barker! It would have cost CBS less in sexual harrassment charges.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rthur</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Toughtalk you know what i have always found interesting? People such as yourself talking about the inhumane treatment of animals while I will bet you have leather goods such as shoes car interior coats or other items made of leather. My question is where do you think it comes from? I have been a bowhunter for 24 years and have contributed more for the wellfare of whitetail, elk, ect. than you ever will. regards Rthur</div></div>
I agree fullheartedly, well said.
Toughtalk is nothing more than a Troll, don't pay him any attention.
A person that makes a statement like that lacks wisdom.
Trying to talk sense into someone like that is wasting your time.
They are a fool attached to certain ideology, unfortunately the wrong one.
..........................SmokeRolls
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

EventHorizon
I totally agree with what you have said. There is a big difference between a political conservative and a conservationist.
Some people can't see the difference.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

How many of the damn things do the japs kill? I hardly see it hurting the population. I know they were almost gone abunch of years ago, but a very small % of the total population will not drive them over the edge. Look how many whitetail we schwack, and now there are more then ever.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

It all Bush's Fault!



HAHA, Sorry could not help myself. I had to get the hippie out of me kinda like a big nasty turd, just smells worst.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

Some people around here are unable to see things the way they are. Even if you take the time to explain conservation to them and provide real life examples like Kaibab mesa or African elephants or polar bears or wild turkey populations they will still choose to not get it.


nuke-the-whales.jpg


For Jesus, of course.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr Kaye</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder what the original tea partyers were? Terrorist? Patriots?

</div></div>

What a pitiful comparison.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

They were not Terrorist as the DoD definition of terrorist defines the use of violence against a victime to coerce a government or other target to comply with the wishes of the terrorist. In other words as the playgroung bully I beat up littel Johnny so the other kids will give me their lunch money. Palastinian terrorists highjacks a plane to get the Isreali govt to bend to their demands.

The Colonists attacke a British companyThe Tea Trading Co.) to protest the British tax. Criminal under British law yes but terrorism not really.

 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

How many whales are in the ocean? Do you know? I don't. These guys may be wrong but they may be right. Or they may just be stoners with a boat. Either way it's a bit hard to tell.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

My own views are mixed. I was raised with Scouting as a key part of my family structure and of my entire subsequent life.

Back in the 1950's the definition of conservation (small 'c') that I was taught could be reduced to a pair of single syllable words, "wise use". Today we use the term "management of renewable resources", but the original meaning's unchanged

Now we could argue the philosophical concepts but the reality is simple. A species makes what use of its environment as it can, and mankind, as a species, can use it to a remarkable degree. This is the natural order of things and when folks argue that man is somehow 'different' and outside that natural order; well, that's when I start looking for the stool and the pointy hat, because something vital was left out of their education. A man is every bit as much a part of nature as a whale.

The Japanese 'scientific activity' is a farce. It's a poorly camouflaged economic operation and it's based on a poor economy which intends to push the limits of extinction of the single species it derives it very being from. They are, in analogy, burning the boat to feed the boiler. Even if for no other reason, it's existence stands on weak ground.

I think that God looks after his own, from the leaders on the religious pinnacles, the the poorest among us, to the very simplest little krill deep down in the depths of the ocean. This includes the whales.

I'm thinking that the folks who self appoint themselves the protectors and defenders of various select species have very little faith in their own Creator's ability to perform that role, and consider their own judgement superior to His. I think that when they go about choosing species to help/save/defend, they seem to have missed a pretty important one, namely their fellow man. I think that charity is a word interchangeable with love, and that a person who chooses to love an animal over their fellow man is screwed in the head. Their behavior belies a hatred of their own species, either in whole or in part, and I firmly believe this is but an extension of their own self loathing.

Hey, I like the whales, and I root for their side, but these people are not on the whales' side any more than the Japanese are. They are on a different side, their own side, and it's nobody and nothing else's side, not even the whales. They are seeking notoriety, power, and not to mention, money. Most of these folks couldn't get a job sloppin' the hogs on a pig farm, and wouldn't deign to try, despite their professed love of animals.

I don't favor whaling, but that's not to say I call it either right or wrong. That's not for me or any other individual to say. There is a Higher Power, and if that court's still out, I'm willing to invest the patience to see the actual, legitimate verdict.

I think that taking such actions into one's own hands is not just an offense against the rights and laws of man, but of something higher yet.

Greg
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

I have problems with both sides myself. If it came to one or the other, I'd split the difference and sink both. They both are right, as well as wrong.

Threads like this provide untold insight into the membership here, when a troll stops by.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These guys are logistic idiots flying by the seat of their pants. The bat boat was damn near out of gas and they decided to harrass the main japanese boat. I bet it got run over because it ran out of gas and couldnt get out of the way....
</div></div>

Check out this video at 1:35. It looks to me as if the bat boat is powering forward into the Japanese ship. <object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xLdUISE3e8c"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xLdUISE3e8c" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

Greg, very well put.

The Sea Shepherds showed loud and clear that they are just a lot of talk on the show Friday. For how many seasons have they been saying that the whales are the only priority and they are all willing to die to save one whale but when the Abigail Marie got cut in half the Bob Barker ceased its pursuit of the Nisshin Maru and went back to help them. If it's all about the whales and your lives are expendable to that end then why not let the crew of the Abigail Marie fend for themselves? Because they're a bunch of hypocrites with nothing but rhetoric and ideology (and probably a big bag of weed, 55 gallon drums of patchouli oil and women that smell like hamsters).

I thought they may have driven in front of the Shonan Maru also from looking at some of the footage from the Bob Barker.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

After watching the show and the video, I think what one guy said might be true. He thinks the japanese boat wanted to just bump the ady gil enough to make is go in for repairs. This makes sence since its the only boat that could keep up with the japanese. If you look at the video, the Japanese clearly aimed for them. Instead of a bump, they ran it over.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

Imho I believe the real problem with the whale issue is money. If there wasnt money to be made they wouldn't have a huge fleet of ships trolling around the antartic looking for whales. The last time i checked Japan's standard of living is alot higher than most of their neighbors. So the question stands do they need this resource to survive. Does this justify the actions of the Sea Shepard crews?
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: macgulley</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These guys are logistic idiots flying by the seat of their pants. The bat boat was damn near out of gas and they decided to harrass the main japanese boat. I bet it got run over because it ran out of gas and couldnt get out of the way....
</div></div>

Check out this video at 1:35. It looks to me as if the bat boat is powering forward into the Japanese ship. </div></div>

I'm of the same opinion. I think it was intentional on the part of the moron controlling the bat boat (can't bring myself to use the title captain). Nothing would garner more attention/sympathy than a martyr (sound familiar?).
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

Well I wonder what sympathy the eco freek operator of the "Bat Boat" will get in the Japanese court system? I think for his own safety and the safety of any fruit that might follow him again he needs to be locked up for at leasr 5 years in a sushi and rice Motel 6. Oh by the way the shashimi needs to be whale!!
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M25BeastShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I wonder what sympathy the eco freek operator of the "Bat Boat" will get in the Japanese court system? I think for his own safety and the safety of any fruit that might follow him again he needs to be locked up for at leasr 5 years in a sushi and rice Motel 6. Oh by the way the shashimi needs to be whale!!</div></div>
Ohhh you have a good torture idea!!! Leave the captain in prison for five years and his only food source would be stewd whale, barbeque whale, whale on a stick, breaded whale, whaleburger, steamed whale. It's all from a store, it can't be bad.......Hahahahaha.......Or go hungry.
.........................SmokeRolls
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M25BeastShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since the Japanese have a limit and a season it seems to me it's under some sort of regulation. </div></div>

Actually no there is no season, they "Claim" to be doiung it for re search but they take 5 times what is allowed and ALL - EVERY whale has shown up in restaurants.

They are in fact illegal, and the treaties are trying to open a season with reduced harvest so they'll slow down.


The probelm with the eco terrorists is that they are just patsying around - while the japanese admitted they take 25% fewer whales now, it's still more than they need to take.


There are some whales that reproduce fast enough but some that do not.

If I were that dedicated to the cause I would be putting limpet mines on teh hulls of those ships with timers - so about the time they got over the marianna trench it would detonate.

I would not screw around with stink bombs, blow them out of the water.

Japan has a cove where they slaughter ALL of the dolphins - I'm sure you've seen the movie.

Dolphins are as smart as humans and a pretty cool animal, but to slaughter for the rich to havea delicacy is wrong in my book...

Any other "FIsh" maybe so, but dolphins and whales are intelligent mammals..

Some things are out of my control but if mo ney were not an object those whaling boats would sink as fast as they could build them. </div></div>

I completely agree. While it's hard to cheer for the patuoli bathed hippies, the whales should be protected.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

I find it interesting how easily people justify the inhumane killing of things with the capability of intelligence rivalling that of elementary school children.

From an ethical standpoint it just shows a person's inability to feel compassion, which realistically is one of the only reasons your life should have any value to another human being.

I'm guessing most that feel this way are well beyond understanding the moral argument and will simply write it off as "communist hippy bullshit though".

Three cheers to you brave free thinkers.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=are-whales-smarter-than-we-are

It should be worth noting that although whales and dolphins both have larger brains than humans, and neurobiologists highly debate the difference in how they work comparitively to human brains that neither species has hands to write or build with.

It is surprising that in all of our intelligence, and all of our supposed mastery of our domain we still haven't managed to decode the language of the whales and have a conversation with them. We do however know that they communicate on a level that far surpasses any other animal.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8886--whale-song-reveals-sophisticated-language-skills.html

Just another perspective.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it interesting how easily people justify the inhumane killing of things with the capability of intelligence rivalling that of elementary school children.
</div></div>

You do realize they are EATING them right?

While I get the fact that they are intelligent, majestic, etc. - we get back to that basic problem: Japan's population is greater than what the land mass of Japan can support. Thus they take a disproportionate share of the ocean's bounty.

It is easy to throw stones and say 'no', but harder to solve a problem. Sure say no whaling, great - what is the trickle down impact on other aquatic life to make up for the short fall?

At the end of the day, the IWC treaties are voluntary and Japan could give the world the finger on this.


Good luck
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it interesting how easily people justify the inhumane killing of things with the capability of intelligence rivalling that of elementary school children.
</div></div>

You do realize they are EATING them right?

While I get the fact that they are intelligent, majestic, etc. - we get back to that basic problem: Japan's population is greater than what the land mass of Japan can support. Thus they take a disproportionate share of the ocean's bounty.

It is easy to throw stones and say 'no', but harder to solve a problem. Sure say no whaling, great - what is the trickle down impact on other aquatic life to make up for the short fall?

At the end of the day, the IWC treaties are voluntary and Japan could give the world the finger on this.


Good luck
</div></div>

You do realize that the amount they are currently catching and killing doubles the consumption of the country, and has only managed to do that through a multimillion dollar campaign to sell the product to wary consumers according to any media I can find regarding the subject?

Mostly school children in school lunches.

One of the most basic tenets of biology is that toxins in an ecosystem concentrate in the higher tiers of the food pyramid, and as you would imagine toothed whales and sharks are at the top. Feeding schoolchildren the most mercury concentrated meats with any regularity obviously isn't the greatest idea(http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=packaged-whale-meat-in-ja).

The reality is that Japanese consumers don't really have a developed taste or desire for the meat, and a ton of money is being spent to market it for mostly political reasons of national identity.

I understand your argument, but I don't think that it's indicitave of the situation.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

I agree with gunfighter on this both side are idiots in my humble opinion. An Mo nailed it. If it was illegal for Japan to do it. The video they have could be given over to the UN body in charge of whaling. Obviously it isn't or the UN could use sanctions against Japan, ergo these knuckleheads are just that knuckledheads with ships harrassing Japanese fishing vessels. They should concider themselves lucky they do not meet the JDS shimakase whilest they are harrassing the fleet.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

Actually I think that to be fair the political battle they are fighting now, is the future battle they will face when they can no longer survive on the food stocks they're currently consuming from the ocean and require the whales to make it.

At what point do we call it quits though? Do we just fish the oceans until there's nothing left?

This balancing game we're playing right now with the ocean's bounty is a very dangerous one in my opinion.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

CW - regardless of marketing or desire to eat it it is being consumed and therefore if it were to disappear it would need to be replaced.

I agree about the level of fishing in general however what is the alternative?

The fish in the sea are a resource that while in international waters are largely unregulated and are available for the harvest of those willing to go and get it. To push for anything other requires an enforcement arm - who is going to do that? What are the larger consequences of giving more power to that entity?


Good luck
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

I would Agree with you, I would also like to make that argument as we fish for Steelhead, Chinook, or Sturgeon on the Sandy or the Columbia. You see my point?
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it interesting how easily people justify the inhumane killing of things with the capability of intelligence rivalling that of elementary school children.

<span style="color: #FF6666">I'll put my 2 year old up against any whale in any test for intelligence you can devise, and I'm pretty sure she'll kick some whale booty. Bring it!</span>

From an ethical standpoint it just shows a person's inability to feel compassion, which realistically is one of the only reasons your life should have any value to another human being.

I'm guessing most that feel this way are well beyond understanding the moral argument and will simply write it off as "communist hippy bullshit though".

Three cheers to you brave free thinkers.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=are-whales-smarter-than-we-are

<span style="color: #FF6666">Did you actually read the article you linked? The authors opening example of how smart whales are is from a work of fiction! If you read the rest of that article closely, you'll find exactly no conclusions about which species is smartest. What you will find is lots of data, much of it seemingly contradictory. I'm open to the idea that whales are really intelligent, but I could neither confirm nor deny that from the article. </span>

It should be worth noting that although whales and dolphins both have larger brains than humans, and neurobiologists highly debate the difference in how they work comparitively to human brains that neither species has hands to write or build with.

It is surprising that in all of our intelligence, and all of our supposed mastery of our domain we still haven't managed to decode the language of the whales and have a conversation with them. We do however know that they communicate on a level that far surpasses any other animal.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8886--whale-song-reveals-sophisticated-language-skills.html

Just another perspective.

</div></div>
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CW - regardless of marketing or desire to eat it it is being consumed and therefore if it were to disappear it would need to be replaced.

I agree about the level of fishing in general however what is the alternative?

The fish in the sea are a resource that while in international waters are largely unregulated and are available for the harvest of those willing to go and get it. To push for anything other requires an enforcement arm - who is going to do that? What are the larger consequences of giving more power to that entity?


Good luck </div></div>

These questions I haven't the shadiest of answers for. However they're the questions that strike to the root of the issue.

Unfortunately I'm alot better at identifying a problem than I am at providing solutions.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Robot Doc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would Agree with you, I would also like to make that argument as we fish for Steelhead, Chinook, or Sturgeon on the Sandy or the Columbia. You see my point? </div></div>

Aye I fish steelhead in these rivers. Realistically we are making a very strong effort to revitalize the stocks of these wild fish in each of those rivers everytime we buy a pass though. The same can't be said of the whales. I believe that if such a focused effort to revitalize ocean stocks were in place as currently exists per fish on our rivers thanks to ODFW or WDFW or Alaskan game we wouldn't need to be concerned about this in the least.

Unfortunately when you have a crowd witness a crime people generally tend to absolve the responsibility onto the other folks witnessing the event. I think the same thing occurs where multiple countries are responsible for a resource they are all subject to splitting up. Everyone wants to get as much of their cut of the pie while the pie is still hot as they can.

When the pie plate is empty who is to blame?
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tim K</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it interesting how easily people justify the inhumane killing of things with the capability of intelligence rivalling that of elementary school children.

<span style="color: #FF6666">I'll put my 2 year old up against any whale in any test for intelligence you can devise, and I'm pretty sure she'll kick some whale booty. Bring it!</span>

From an ethical standpoint it just shows a person's inability to feel compassion, which realistically is one of the only reasons your life should have any value to another human being.

I'm guessing most that feel this way are well beyond understanding the moral argument and will simply write it off as "communist hippy bullshit though".

Three cheers to you brave free thinkers.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=are-whales-smarter-than-we-are

<span style="color: #FF6666">Did you actually read the article you linked? The authors opening example of how smart whales are is from a work of fiction! If you read the rest of that article closely, you'll find exactly no conclusions about which species is smartest. What you will find is lots of data, much of it seemingly contradictory. I'm open to the idea that whales are really intelligent, but I could neither confirm nor deny that from the article. </span>

It should be worth noting that although whales and dolphins both have larger brains than humans, and neurobiologists highly debate the difference in how they work comparitively to human brains that neither species has hands to write or build with.

It is surprising that in all of our intelligence, and all of our supposed mastery of our domain we still haven't managed to decode the language of the whales and have a conversation with them. We do however know that they communicate on a level that far surpasses any other animal.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8886--whale-song-reveals-sophisticated-language-skills.html

Just another perspective.

</div></div> </div></div>

Yes, I read both articles in their entirety. The fictional novel the author quotes has nothing to do with the research he's just trying to write an interesting article by posing a question with Moby Dick. I'm guessing you're intelligent enough to recognize that this opening sequence of the article has nothing to do with the dependability of the research contained.


You go ahead and send your 2 year old on a 6000 mile sea journey and let me know when it shows back up on your doorstep wise ass.

I didn't say "conclusively whales are smarter than humans" did I? I said that their brains are larger, and they posess a complexity of language and grammar that WE as humans despite our intelligence have not yet decoded.

There is no question that in nearly any complex task a whale or dolphin would outperform your 2 year old, outside of rapidly learning a language. Obviously there are significant differences in the types of brains we have in our skulls, as according to the articles posted.

This draws down to the definition of "intelligence". Perhaps there are tasks the whale brain can perform which humans cannot. I don't think anyone knows that currently.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

I know there is one task that whales brain cant process. Stay away from the harpoon boat.

They need to be managed like any other food source does and be used as a renewable resource with proper management. I think that the japanese are wrong but the way the hippie idiots go about what they are doing they remind me of peta and i fucking hate peta people. So best case senario is the wackos all die in a boat fire and the whales are managed in a responsible way.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know there is one task that whales brain cant process. Stay away from the harpoon boat.

They need to be managed like any other food source does and be used as a renewable resource with proper management. I think that the japanese are wrong but the way the hippie idiots go about what they are doing they remind me of peta and i fucking hate peta people. So best case senario is the wackos all die in a boat fire and the whales are managed in a responsible way. </div></div>

If your opinion of an ethical standard is based on the shareholders of that ideal from the lowest common denominator you're going to have trouble finding anything worth believing in.

There are all kinds of idiots that believe just about any opinion, including many you yourself probably hold dear. However, that does not make you an idiot, or a fanatic.
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

It is a little thing called common sense and it seems to run short these days. I plant a shit ton of trees and crp to help the wildlife survive and i respect the animals. But the wackos that i speak of hold the animals lives in higher regard than humans and that is what i call a wacko. Animals are here for me to eat be it cow, pig or deer. If all some one wants to eat is veggies have at it but when you try to tell me that i am going to burn in hell for eating meat that is a wacko. The great part about living in South Dakota we are pretty short on wackos. What is next attacking the crab boats in the berring sea. Now that would be a show i would watch only one show though. they would just shoot the wackos
 
Re: Whale wars?? Eco Pirates!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know there is one task that whales brain cant process. Stay away from the harpoon boat.

They need to be managed like any other food source does and be used as a renewable resource with proper management. I think that the japanese are wrong but the way the hippie idiots go about what they are doing they remind me of peta and i fucking hate peta people. So best case senario is the wackos all die in a boat fire and the whales are managed in a responsible way. </div></div>

Like standardized testing:
This is the <span style="font-style: italic">most correct</span> answer to this problem.

But seriously, can we still nuke one or two?
 
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