Why do we love the MK12 so much?

CrabsandFootball

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totally disagree with mk12 being iconic and respectfully so. Most AR guys can't pick one out.
It represents and important time in the development of the AR.

It was the Late 90's and the market was way smaller than it is now. There wasn't 1/1000th the companies out there making products. You basically had A.R.M.S for rails/optic mounts and no real competition until Laure came out. RRA and KAC were the only real triggers on the market until Bill G came out with what is still today the finest AR trigger on the market in the early 00's, the NM Hi speed.

It was also during the Assualt Weapons Ban which greatly hindered development since you couldn't buy new ARs., atleast ones that weren't severely cucked.

It was also a time when people started to think of the AR as more than just a blaster/short range gun. Up until then the M14/M1A dominated NRA high power. It was a changing of the guard as people were moving towards the AR15 platform due to its ability to accurize and reduce recoil/cost.

The MK12 really was some of the best tech at the time, and compared to a M16 or M4, was significantly more accurate as well as being able to see what your shooting at.

When the AWB ended in 04 there was a flood of new products, makers and innovation on the market. It spurred a revolution of the AR and the Mk12 was proof you could make very accurate AR's.

There are certain AR's that just scream iconic.

M16A1
XM177
M16A2
Colt 723
M4
Mk12
SR25
SR15
ect
 

RUTGERS95

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It represents and important time in the development of the AR.

It was the Late 90's and the market was way smaller than it is now. There wasn't 1/1000th the companies out there making products. You basically had A.R.M.S for rails/optic mounts and no real competition until Laure came out. RRA and KAC were the only real triggers on the market until Bill G came out with what is still today the finest AR trigger on the market in the early 00's, the NM Hi speed.

It was also during the Assualt Weapons Ban which greatly hindered development since you couldn't buy new ARs., atleast ones that weren't severely cucked.

It was also a time when people started to think of the AR as more than just a blaster/short range gun. Up until then the M14/M1A dominated NRA high power. It was a changing of the guard as people were moving towards the AR15 platform due to its ability to accurize and reduce recoil/cost.

The MK12 really was some of the best tech at the time, and compared to a M16 or M4, was significantly more accurate as well as being able to see what your shooting at.

When the AWB ended in 04 there was a flood of new products, makers and innovation on the market. It spurred a revolution of the AR and the Mk12 was proof you could make very accurate AR's.

There are certain AR's that just scream iconic.

M16A1
XM177
M16A2
Colt 723
M4
Mk12
SR25
SR15
ect
no doubt but that does not mean it's iconic.

Just about every kid who is 14 can pick out a Garand, Tommy Gun, m16 but not the mk12. 95% of AR owners could pick out an A2 or an M4 but not a m12.

it's not iconic by any stretch of the imagination and nor is most of your list. hell, half of AR15.com would call an sr25 and AR10. You guys need to remember that this bubble here is not the gun community

1 : of, relating to, or having the characteristics of an icon. 2a : widely recognized
 
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hellishot

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MK12 is the jack-of-all trades rifle. Do I want to ammo dump in the 100 yard range? No problem. Do I want to take it out past 200 yards. Not an issue. Do I want to put hella accessories on my rail. Sure go for it. Do I want push it to the limit and try for 600-700 yards. This rifle can handle it.

Also, it’s relatively light when you are carrying it.
 

1moaoff

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    Because one day these kids will get to shoot one if you do your part today!!!

     

    darkfader

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    I guess I picked a bad time to absolutely NEED one of these. Any tips on where to look for the Knight’s rifle length RAS for the Mod1?
     

    shlouf

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    I guess I picked a bad time to absolutely NEED one of these. Any tips on where to look for the Knight’s rifle length RAS for the Mod1?
    Keep a close eye on the PX here and the EE on arf. If you want a new one, I'd contact operation parts and or brownells about when they'll be back in stock.
     
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    RUTGERS95

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    I guess I picked a bad time to absolutely NEED one of these. Any tips on where to look for the Knight’s rifle length RAS for the Mod1?
    just put a wtb here, m4carbine, arfcom and you'll be fine. I think I saw one on m4carbine to be honest
     
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    greg1147

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    I have sold custom bolt guns, an AI, a couple ARs, and the only one of them all the regret selling was a clone correct MK12MOD1.

    Thing was stupid accurate. 3/3 at 650yards
    View attachment 7556916

    Yes it was a pig, bud man was she accurate for a 223 gasser. The 2.5-10x24 was less than ideal in my opinion for it, so I upgraded to a MK6 3-18 and I felt the 3-18 served it a lot better than

    I have sold custom bolt guns, an AI, a couple ARs, and the only one of them all the regret selling was a clone correct MK12MOD1.

    Thing was stupid accurate. 3/3 at 650yards


    Yes it was a pig, bud man was she accurate for a 223 gasser. The 2.5-10x24 was less than ideal in my opinion for it, so I upgraded to a MK6 3-18 and I felt the 3-18 served it a lot better than the 2.5-10.
    Did you use the correct but stock or a B5 which looks to be almost exactly as the LMT sopmod?
     

    Nostradumbass

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    I can answer this. Clone builders don't actually use their guns, so it doesn't matter that a red dot is obscured and mounted 4" over the gun ;)
    C’mon Mang! 😙
    ECD9C44E-A009-4490-8E33-6F326F652DE9.jpeg
    F5B67488-0CF8-4637-A58B-9D0D0E8CFE9E.jpeg
     
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    clcustom1911

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    I have sold custom bolt guns, an AI, a couple ARs, and the only one of them all the regret selling was a clone correct MK12MOD1.

    Thing was stupid accurate. 3/3 at 650yards
    View attachment 7556916

    Yes it was a pig, bud man was she accurate for a 223 gasser. The 2.5-10x24 was less than ideal in my opinion for it, so I upgraded to a MK6 3-18 and I felt the 3-18 served it a lot better than the 2.5-10.
    View attachment 7556919
    View attachment 7556917
    Your clone Mod 1 shoots about 1000% better than the actual Mod 1's we have at work. Every DDM hates theirs LOL. Nice build.
     

    clcustom1911

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    I can answer this. Clone builders don't actually use their guns, so it doesn't matter that a red dot is obscured and mounted 4" over the gun ;)
    I may be building a Mk12 Mod 0, but I'mma use the shit out of it. There's no damn way I'm spending all this fiat currency on one and not shooting the snot out of it with 69 and 77 SMK's.
     

    greg1147

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    I may be building a Mk12 Mod 0, but I'mma use the shit out of it. There's no damn way I'm spending all this fiat currency on one and not shooting the snot out of it with 69 and 77 SMK's.
    My exact thoughts along with the MK18, no safe queens here. And the boat anchor gets used, MK25 along with them.
     
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    Kyle_dixon_hismouth

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    I guess I picked a bad time to absolutely NEED one of these. Any tips on where to look for the Knight’s rifle length RAS for the Mod1?
    What you should be looking for is the suppressor since Ron announced his retirement, he's working through an increasing backlog since the announcement and plans to do as much as he can before he ramps down this year (at some time).
     

    darkfader

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    I’ve scoured the net. Looks like there are none available, but I set up many notifications for when one does “hit the shelf” from various vendors. I managed to find a KAC RAS and it arrives this week. SPR contoured barrel, muzzle device and collar will all be arriving this week as well. Mine will be built on aftermarket receivers so it won’t be clone correct, more of a “Mock12 Mod1” but I’m still excited about it. Maybe I’ll do an 80% lower with correct roll marks sometime down the road, but I’m not too worried about that really. I hope I can get in line for the AEM5 though. That’ll be a bummer if that becomes never available.
     

    FatBoy

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    I hadn’t heard Ron was retiring. Guess it’s about that time though, and wish him long and happy days.

    Hopefully he has a successor lined up. Demand for these cans appears high enough that someone should pick up the torch and run with it. As much as I know the purests will scoff, I’d be OK with an outfit like TBAC turning them out if the can was licensed and I’d go so far as being OK if the material and internals changed as long as it looks the same and performs as well. That said, the mk12 is a relatively heavy rifle and the -5 fits it. For an older design it’s a wonderful sounding, accurate suppressor and I think will stand with any 223 can out there today on an AR platform . I love mine.
     
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    j-dubya

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    Your clone Mod 1 shoots about 1000% better than the actual Mod 1's we have at work. Every DDM hates theirs LOL. Nice build.
    They need to strip the barrels clean and try to start over. Even if guys think they are cleaning, they don’t know how to actually ‘clean’ a bore...and the barrels are just fouled beyond belief. That, and if they are still mod 1’s from the build timeframe, they’re likely burned out. Ten years ago I kept an extra mod 1 in my team gear for parts. It’s round count book had over 16k documented rounds through it. Knowing what I know now, I would have loved to have put a borescope through it for data. Particularly the gas port erosion.
     
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    NukeMMC

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    I hadn’t heard Ron was retiring. Guess it’s about that time though, and wish him long and happy days.

    Hopefully he has a successor lined up. Demand for these cans appears high enough that someone should pick up the torch and run with it. As much as I know the purests will scoff, I’d be OK with an outfit like TBAC turning them out if the can was licensed and I’d go so far as being OK if the material and internals changed as long as it looks the same and performs as well. That said, the mk12 is a relatively heavy rifle and the -5 fits it. For an older design it’s a wonderful sounding, accurate suppressor and I think will stand with any 223 can out there today on an AR platform . I love mine.
    I would definitely trade my OpsInc 12th model for a titanium lookalike as long as it functioned the same.
     

    Huskydriver

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    I’ve scoured the net. Looks like there are none available, but I set up many notifications for when one does “hit the shelf” from various vendors. I managed to find a KAC RAS and it arrives this week. SPR contoured barrel, muzzle device and collar will all be arriving this week as well. Mine will be built on aftermarket receivers so it won’t be clone correct, more of a “Mock12 Mod1” but I’m still excited about it. Maybe I’ll do an 80% lower with correct roll marks sometime down the road, but I’m not too worried about that really. I hope I can get in line for the AEM5 though. That’ll be a bummer if that becomes never available.

    If your not doing a clone build forget the aem5 much better performing cans out there now anyway.
     

    Sniperwannabee

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    I have sold custom bolt guns, an AI, a couple ARs, and the only one of them all the regret selling was a clone correct MK12MOD1.


    Yes it was a pig, bud man was she accurate for a 223 gasser. The 2.5-10x24 was less than ideal in my opinion for it, so I upgraded to a MK6 3-18 and I felt the 3-18 served it a lot better than the 2.5-10.
    View attachment 7556919
    you framed a AL pennant?
     

    clcustom1911

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    They need to strip the barrels clean and try to start over. Even if guys think they are cleaning, they don’t know how to actually ‘clean’ a bore...and the barrels are just fouled beyond belief. That, and if they are still mod 1’s from the build timeframe, they’re likely burned out. Ten years ago I kept an extra mod 1 in my team gear for parts. It’s round count book had over 16k documented rounds through it. Knowing what I know now, I would have loved to have put a borescope through it for data. Particularly the gas port erosion.
    Sounds about right. All the Mk12's we have were scheduled to be de-mill'd/destroyed, then they changed their minds and decided to let us lowly contractors to use them. They all had unknown round counts so they started them off at 3000 rounds LOL.
     

    j-dubya

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    Then their actual round counts can be all over the place. Regardless, they need to do a thorough strip to bare metal and then let them resettle in with 10-20 rounds. At least a few will come back to life.
     

    antecedent

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    Hard to say why, exactly, but the Mk12 Mod 0 just stuck in my head the first time I ran across a picture of one. Something about the multipurpose, hard-use, “this is a tool for getting things done,” solution-to-a-particular-problem nature of the thing is definitely a part of it.

    The other part, I think, definitely aesthetic. The contrast between the aggressive, heavy profile of the PRI/ARMS riser/reinforcement rail, low, separate mounts, squat scope, and fixed stock, versus the slender visible barrel, short, narrow, forearm tube, thin, open brake, and spindly bipod is amazing. Top it off with some gratuitous exposed operating mechanisms from the rail integrated rear, and gas block integrated front folding sights, bipod joints...

    Also helps that, intentional or not, the dark grey/black highlights (lowlights?) of riser rail, barrel, sights, scope mounts, trigger, pins, and exposed buffer tube (on adj variants) against the fde or painted scope, rxr set, handguard, and grip couldn’t have come out any better if they had planned the colorways from the start...

    So I guess... “because it’s accidentally functionally gorgeous,” is probably what I’d have to say...
     

    gunsnjeeps

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    I read this thread a while ago and saw it again today. The MK 12 was an idea based on the National Match AR's Crane and AMU had at the time. They were the first flat top AR I had seen.

    I understand the clone idea, but only from John C. Garand Matches. Rifles are M1 Garands "As Issued" no NM parts. Pre optics NRA/CMP Service Rifles were externally similar to issued rifles but had 2 stage triggers, free floated barrels, and improved sights (wider front post, smaller, hooded rear aperature).

    The MK 12 used that concept with a railed hand guard. We used to joke about it being perfect for Service Rifle. A few years ago, CMP went to a 1-4.5x 34mm optic mimicking the fixed 4x ACOG.

    With the Navy deemphasizing marksmanship and cutting funds at Crane we don't see new stuff like the Mk12 or Mk14. The Navy's Marksmanship Team has been on the brink for years because of these cuts.
     
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    Chief_Rick

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    With the Navy deemphasizing marksmanship and cutting funds at Crane we don't see new stuff like the Mk12 or Mk14. The Navy's Marksmanship Team has been on the brink for years because of these cuts.
    What's sad is that I spent 24 years in the Navy and only became aware of a Navy shooting team after I retired (2013). At least on the ships I was on, there was nothing ever said or posted that I can recall.
     
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    gunsnjeeps

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    What's sad is that I spent 24 years in the Navy and only became aware of a Navy shooting team after I retired (2013). At least on the ships I was on, there was nothing ever said or posted that I can recall.
    It used to be one of the Navy's best kept secrets, until the mid 90's it was mostly word of mouth. We still have a problem in that ship's and commands don't support it even as a no cost TAD, marksmanship isn't seen as vital to the ship's mission, and even falls victim to an anti firearm bias in some chains of command.
     

    Precision Underground

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  • Ive always loved the look of the Mod0. We just put this together and it may make the clone bois lose sleep. It’s a Mod0(ish) Valkyrie built on a Mega lower. We’ll probably build a reflex mounted form 1 can for it which may make some heads explode! The mismatch anodizing makes my OCD nuts but it looks worse in the pic than in person. In this market you can’t be picky with receivers lol.
    8F4C29F1-20F1-4BA8-973D-FEA5AAC8C1DD.jpeg
     

    darkfader

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    Thanks. I’m wondering if I’ll be able to get my hands on the AEM5. They’re out of stock everywhere and I read that Mr. Allen may be retiring. I may end up with something more available for my mock12. Should have my rifle finished Tuesday, other than the suppressor.
     
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    Aaros143

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    It represents and important time in the development of the AR.

    It was the Late 90's and the market was way smaller than it is now. There wasn't 1/1000th the companies out there making products. You basically had A.R.M.S for rails/optic mounts and no real competition until Laure came out. RRA and KAC were the only real triggers on the market until Bill G came out with what is still today the finest AR trigger on the market in the early 00's, the NM Hi speed.

    It was also during the Assualt Weapons Ban which greatly hindered development since you couldn't buy new ARs., atleast ones that weren't severely cucked.

    It was also a time when people started to think of the AR as more than just a blaster/short range gun. Up until then the M14/M1A dominated NRA high power. It was a changing of the guard as people were moving towards the AR15 platform due to its ability to accurize and reduce recoil/cost.

    The MK12 really was some of the best tech at the time, and compared to a M16 or M4, was significantly more accurate as well as being able to see what your shooting at.

    When the AWB ended in 04 there was a flood of new products, makers and innovation on the market. It spurred a revolution of the AR and the Mk12 was proof you could make very accurate AR's.

    There are certain AR's that just scream iconic.

    M16A1
    XM177
    M16A2
    Colt 723
    M4
    Mk12
    SR25
    SR15
    ect
    I'll add one more to your list. Might just be for nostalgic reasons though.

    M16A4 with ACOG