Re: Why Glock?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If they fail and you have experience throwing bricks you will always be deadly with it. If you want something better go with the M&P which does not use plastic guide rods like the brick.
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Care to point out a broken plastic Glock guide rod? One ever stop a Glock from running?
The M&P's haven't really exhibited the best track record so far, so I'm not sure why you think it's "better" than a Glock.
There is plenty to not like about Glocks, but complaining about plastic guide rods that don't break is hardly a meaningful criticism. </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Based on your own criticism I doubt you know much about them.</span> I had two break one jammed the slide so bad it was the biggest PITA to remove. It is only a $20 part but regardless. I have had more crap break on glocks than any M&Ps. The M&Ps have more rounds through them then the glocks I own. I sold all my Glocks and went to M&P but yes I still own a G22 and its been done over to replace the crappy parts. I agree with the post about how the only reason a person would buy a glock is because they can't afford the H&K well the M&P is a much better built gun. Better steel on the slide also. Plus if you shoot lead it won't blow up like the glock also. Plus if you look at the gen. 4 glock they had huge issues up front and have been trying to play catch up ever since. Buy once cry once! </div></div>
Actually, I have a fair bit of experience with both...
I supervised a rental run of M&P's and Glocks for 2 years. Pretty much a complete run minus a the 10mm glocks, and the 24/17L's.
In 1 year we broke 2 trigger return springs on 2 different 9mm Glocks. These guns had approx 30-40k rounds through them that year, all on one magazine and recoil spring, and otherwise just RAN. We also blew up one 23C. Glocks in rotation included a 17, 19, 26, 22, 23, 23c, 27, 21, 21sf, 30, 30sf, 36, 32, 33, 34, 35 and a 37.
During that same period of time we ran 4 M&P's. Full size and compact 9's, and full size and compact 40's.
We blew up the full size .40, twice, breaking in exactly the same spot each time (frame cracked down past the take down lever, trigger guard stayed in one piece).
All of them except the .40 compact dropped magazines and needed to go back for the magazine catch upgrade.
The 9mm slide rail cracked (same spot at Todd Green's test gun broke - known manufacturing error).
One of the full-size guns, I think the 9mm, had it's extractor pin crack in half, so the broken half of the pin walked out of the bottom of the slide over and over again, we drove it back up into the slide each time we cleaned it and the gun continued to work.
The 9mm barrel blew up. It cracked just forward of the chamber, right in front of the barrel hood. It vented gas into the slide, and would only gun with a rock solid grip.
So, the .40 compact was the only gun of the 4 that didn't need to go back to the factory for repairs.
Compare that to 1 failure and 2 small parts breakages in (19) different Glocks (which were shot MUCH more than the M&Ps were).
This is just the rental performance... we saw lots of additional problems with customer guns.
In addition to that experience, I'm also a Glock Armorer, work for a Glock distibutor, and have 10k's of rounds through my own Glocks. I do know a thing or two about them.
I had about 3k through my M&P9 before I dumped it when it exhibited a number of magazine related feeding problems.
They have had numerous revisions to the strikers as they keep breaking on people, the magazine dropping problem affected pretty much every M&P made in the first two years of production, and the current crop has significant accuracy problems because the guns unlock far too quickly.
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=98784#Post98784
If you have pics of your broken guide rod, please do post them. I have never once seen or heard of this... and I've seen hundreds of thousands of rounds go through dozens of Glocks.
Glock is screwing up their reputation with the Gen 4 guns, no doubt about it. But S&W literally threw away whatever chance they had at taking over the market with the M&P with these endless problems they've had with them. To quote LAV they "snatched defeat from the jaws of victory" on the M&P by constantly trying to cut corners on it.
Glock <span style="font-style: italic">seems</span> to about have the Gen 4 problems figured out, but I still don't really recommend them in 9mm. An older production 2nd/ 3rd gen 9mm... they are some of the most reliable guns on the planet.