Would it not be possible to size the spring appropriately? Surely a constant force spring that has less force at minimum stack (one round) than a wound spring at full stack could still have enough force to feed reliably. Especially with lightweight rounds such as 22.
DeLane Development Group Rimfire Ventures
- Thread starter RAVAGE88
- Start date
Sorry, late to the party, but I will bite.
Innovation is being creative AND methodical to make accuracy and precision converge to meet the targeted goal (pun intended).
Incremental change is working from a base design and making small improvements/refinements to achieve a goal (maybe cost, maybe precision or accuracy or both) to differentiate from the competition and claim "its better". Sometimes, it addresses a deficiency in the current design or flaw found in actual use, but is usually mislabeled as innovation (sometimes haters call it "a solution looking for a problem").
Revolution is an approach that some would consider "radical" that changes or elevates a design to a whole new platform or way of thinking or operating that doesn't care to address minor flaws or issues, but is tired of working a problem the same ol conventional way of thinking and addresses it without accepting constraints that would limit how one would approach making a system manage precision and accuracy in a very predictable way to achieving a new level of performance.
Yes, provided it's not all about the spring and other key features are addressed appropriately. The operating dynamics throw a whole new set of problems into the mix along with the characteristics of what's being fed, as in design of the case (protruding or rebated rim, taper, and so on).
MB
The High End .22lr World is becoming about as exciting as the race to MARS by SpaceX. It keeps building up, new stuff everywhere, the old, good stuff falling by the wayside.
And I can’t wait, to see it all work out.
(In my case, time is of the essence, its not critical, but I like to think in months, as years are passing so darn fast).
And I can’t wait, to see it all work out.
(In my case, time is of the essence, its not critical, but I like to think in months, as years are passing so darn fast).
Gotcha. I can offer the DBM, but it will be branded differently, if there's enough interest. Yes, I'll be doing the action wrenches and will keep everyone updated on their availability.
MB
MB ,
Mags and mag springs , I have seen discussions in the past about people looking into clock type springs , why won’t these work ?
It would seem to work great in theory , with all the extra space in your mag design behind the actual 22 mag column you could put the wound clock spring back there , I don’t know
Mags and mag springs , I have seen discussions in the past about people looking into clock type springs , why won’t these work ?
It would seem to work great in theory , with all the extra space in your mag design behind the actual 22 mag column you could put the wound clock spring back there , I don’t know
Looks Like you were right....It looks like you can start a business manufacturing parts kits for Vudoo owners
DW
MB
Hopefully, I'm not going way out in left field on this idea but here goes. Is there any chance @RAVAGE88 can produce a super accurate rimfire with a Fortner / straight-pull action that would fit in a R700 stock or chassis?
Yes, I know that Anschutz and Volquartsen already produce rifles with those actions but I'm confident that @RAVAGE88 has the skill to design one that can top those other manufacturers.
I realize that sounds like a crazy, outside of the box request. Yet, @RAVAGE88 was thinking outside the box when he started making super accurate rifles that had a 700 footprint years ago and look how it took off!
Pardon me while I slip into something flame-retardant.
Yes, I know that Anschutz and Volquartsen already produce rifles with those actions but I'm confident that @RAVAGE88 has the skill to design one that can top those other manufacturers.
I realize that sounds like a crazy, outside of the box request. Yet, @RAVAGE88 was thinking outside the box when he started making super accurate rifles that had a 700 footprint years ago and look how it took off!
Pardon me while I slip into something flame-retardant.
Ok, things are moving. I've been entering everyone into the bookkeeping software, which I have enough info based on the emails to make a sizable dent, but I'll email a number of you to gather some remaining info.
The spring supplier is set up, we're finalizing a few remaining details and production cranks up again. No big deal. The available springs will be:
I'll have updates on small parts and rails maybe later today, but overall, getting everything cranked up is going very well. Stay tuned.
MB
The spring supplier is set up, we're finalizing a few remaining details and production cranks up again. No big deal. The available springs will be:
- Repeater Firing Pin: Standard 22 lbf
- Single Shot Firing Pin: Assortment Pack for V-22S
- Extractor (X2 per kit)
- Side Bolt Release (All Gens)
- Magazine (Polymer and Aluminum Versions)
I'll have updates on small parts and rails maybe later today, but overall, getting everything cranked up is going very well. Stay tuned.
MB
For readers in general, Anschutz produces rifles with Fortner actions. Volquartsen doesn't.
Very true and glad to see you pop back in. I know the track he's on, for which, I'll generalize by action type and not the Fortner specifically.
I have carnal knowledge of what happens when someone copies the Fortner....
MB
No, I didn’t that I saw, let me check spam.
Edit: replied to my own email to get it to the top on your inbox.
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Understood and PII deleted.
My fault, I "green flagged" you and either didn't hit "send" for the reply or missed the reply altogether, but you were good to go on the first email.
MB
I mentioned the Fortner / straight pull action because I think that the sidelever is superior to any other design.
The only straight pull actions that I've had experience with were a 1960s Browning T-Bolt, Savage Impulse and an FX Air Rifle.
So between those three, I like the sidelever because moving the hand from the trigger to the sidelever is faster, smoother and takes less movement that the other actions.
Just my two cents worth and thanks for thinking about it. BTW, I'm not getting any younger.
So the sooner a super accurate sidelever rimfire comes out from the DeLane Development Group the better. You would make an old man like me very happy
The APR version fixes problems with the existing 1727-F, see demo of the modified version at the 2min mark.
Yep, I knew the track you were on and why and I appreciate the input because it continues to feed direction.I mentioned the Fortner / straight pull action because I think that the sidelever is superior to any other design.
The only straight pull actions that I've had experience with were a 1960s Browning T-Bolt, Savage Impulse and an FX Air Rifle.
So between those three, I like the sidelever because moving the hand from the trigger to the sidelever is faster, smoother and takes less movement that the other actions.
Just my two cents worth and thanks for thinking about it. BTW, I'm not getting any younger.
So the sooner a super accurate sidelever rimfire comes out from the DeLane Development Group the better. You would make an old man like me very happy
I started the Impulse project at Savage and wrote the ORD. To get it into the mix was a knife fight in the front office for reasons I won't get into, but there's something to be said for a straight pull when executed correctly. When the Impulse intro'd, Savage sold more than a years worth of business in less than a week (I don't remember the exact period of time, so I'm being conservative, but it was surprisingly fast).
MB
Never in their wildest dreams….
I fought the Accu-Trigger battle a few times. The CEO said, “it’s the best trigger we’ve ever made!” My response was, “no, the best trigger you’ve ever made hasn’t been made yet.” He was speechless….
MB
Absolutely, I’m left handed. But I shoot RH because of the right eye dominance, but still….
MB
Looks like MPA is filling the gap with spare parts as well. Id imagine a lot going on behind the scenes with that relationship. Wonder what is to come!
Edit: Would always prefer to give Mike my business here. I'll wait for his parts to roll out.
Edit: Would always prefer to give Mike my business here. I'll wait for his parts to roll out.
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Dude, I'm all sorts of messed up. Write left, bat left, throw a baseball right but a football left. When I tried golf, I drove right but putted left. Handgun, rifle, and shotgun have been right from a young age.
MB
You can’t imagine how much our left handed son feels about this. He gets downright militant.
But there is a rather sad ending to all this. Brenda was left eye dominant but taught herself to shoot with her right eye and has become quite a very good shot. Right Handed. I am Right Handed. That’s not a statement, that’s a lament. We own many firearms that he likes and wants to inherit, but they are all specific right handed firearms.
Dang those are a little pricy aren’t they? Surgeon Rifles pricing right there, lol.
I was fortunate enough to be born semi-amphibious.
I too swim left handed but walk on land right handed.
Ambidextrous*
Dude, I KNEW you were gonna say that.
I was gonna ask, “can you imagine what it would be with three more Sigmas?”
MB
I'm right there with you on this. I shoot long gun right hand with my right eye and a handgun left handed with my left eye. I shoot with both eyes open and an right eye dominant. I don't know why but I have been doing it that way for as long as I can remember.
Transitions from long gun to handgun are smooth this way though...
I'm trying to decide if you're more messed up than I am....like, did we get dropped on our heads or something?
MB
Ok, it's been a good week. As I mentioned earlier today, all the springs are set to start running, just waiting on me to finish organizing a few things (part numbers, pricing, etc.) in the bookkeeping software and I'll punch out some POs. Delivery for springs (to me) is two to six weeks ARO.
I made a bit of an investment and all the small parts (see list below) are now set to run again after I do what I mentioned above. The only small parts needing a production solution are the extractors and plungers, but no big deal. They're not highly called upon as spares unless one fiddles around and shoots one into the heater duct. I also need to see if the side bolt release for the later Three60's had a rev push, but I'll validate that by early next week.
Small Parts:
As I've worked through this, I've noted that it's better across the board to offer a complete parts kit. To manage individual parts on a per Gen basis is cumbersome and confusing. And, it's not like these parts get replaced a lot.
Lastly, two of the four actions are pretty well through the design phase, one of which is basically ready for some industrial engineering. I've been thinking I may do a V-22 replacement, but, I don't see that approach as relevant any longer. From the perspective of history, it's pretty awesome to see where we came from, but, based on the pretty incredible outreach I've received, the community is moving on. There's still a lot to do on these, but that's why I'm doing V-22 parts first. Keep them running (parts will always be available) and then step up if you so choose.
Onward and upward, Fellas....
MB
I made a bit of an investment and all the small parts (see list below) are now set to run again after I do what I mentioned above. The only small parts needing a production solution are the extractors and plungers, but no big deal. They're not highly called upon as spares unless one fiddles around and shoots one into the heater duct. I also need to see if the side bolt release for the later Three60's had a rev push, but I'll validate that by early next week.
Small Parts:
- Firing Pins (repeater and single shot, 22LR only for now)
- Cocking Pieces (early Gen 1 that used the Rem700 CP still needs a solution)
- Rails (open source dowels and screws OTS)
- Side Bolt Release (all Gens)
- Ejector (all Gens)
- Extractors (working on production solution)
- Extractor Plunger (working on production solution)
- Threaded Pins (all Gens)
- Bolt Knobs
- Action Wrenches (all Gens, completing plans)
As I've worked through this, I've noted that it's better across the board to offer a complete parts kit. To manage individual parts on a per Gen basis is cumbersome and confusing. And, it's not like these parts get replaced a lot.
Lastly, two of the four actions are pretty well through the design phase, one of which is basically ready for some industrial engineering. I've been thinking I may do a V-22 replacement, but, I don't see that approach as relevant any longer. From the perspective of history, it's pretty awesome to see where we came from, but, based on the pretty incredible outreach I've received, the community is moving on. There's still a lot to do on these, but that's why I'm doing V-22 parts first. Keep them running (parts will always be available) and then step up if you so choose.
Onward and upward, Fellas....
MB
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