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7mm Sherman Short Mag

5RWill

5RWill

Optics Fiend
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Minuteman
    • Oct 15, 2009
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    So i started reading into the 7SS and am pretty astonished as it seems to remedy the OAL restriction issues that plague the 7 SAUM. The SS is .075" shorter oal. It is .095" shorter at the neck shoulder junction which determines where proper bullet seating depth starts. It has a .020" longer neck than the saum. It has a 40 degree shoulder and less body taper keeping case stretching to a minimum. Allows 180gr hybrids to be seated right at the shoulder/body junction and still fit in Alpha and Accurate mags. Speeds reported from a 26" tube are impressive as well. 3200fps for 168s, 3100fps for 175s, 3070fps for 180s, and 2955fps for 195s. These are all on RL26. I had plans to get a 7 SAUM spun up this summer for my TL3 but i think i've just made the switch. Rich is now selling prepped brass and has reamers ready to go. Has anyone else been using this cartridge or have any experience with it?
    Here are some pics from Vestals custom rifles on facebook, i was just trying to find pics of the round. 180gr Hybrid at 2.960 which is the OAL we're running 140gr hybrids in our 6.5 SAUM at.
    7087616

    7087617

    7087618

    13325519_900318076744091_7953527234583157325_n.jpg

    13325686_901936729915559_4885103960216148104_n.jpg

    13413718_901937483248817_3242252036040779256_n.jpg
     
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    Lots of guys on longrangehunting using this. Seems like a lot of work to form but if brass becomes (is) available could be a nice option.
     
    Was he going to sell you a reamer or rent it? I’m getting ready to build a 6.5ss and acted like he wasn’t going to sell reamers till this summer, which is fine, I just want to guarantee it had a future with me if I made the commitment to brass and dies. I seen a post where the hand stamp brass will still need fireformed, any idea what the headstamped stuff starts life as. For good Norma brass, I don’t feel he’s out of line for his made brass, as long as it lasts.
     
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    FatBoy said:
    Lots of guys on longrangehunting using this. Seems like a lot of work to form but if brass becomes (is) available could be a nice option.
    Click to expand...

    Yeah i just started posting over there and didn't realize i was talking to Rich, he recommend it, i started looking into it and realized it was him i was talking to. He has prepped brass ready to be sold just needs to be fireformed and stamped brass coming from ADG that will also need fireforming. I'm probably going to jump on getting some components together after this test block. Main thing is seeing if i can find a proof certificate or a deal on a 24" sendero lite. I thought i may go with a bartlein #4 but it's likely to be heavier than the gun already is. I'm looking to shed maybe a lb or so.
     
    Tjfarmer said:
    Was he going to sell you a reamer or rent it? I’m getting ready to build a 6.5ss and acted like he wasn’t going to sell reamers till this summer, which is fine, I just want to guarantee it had a future with me if I made the commitment to brass and dies. I seen a post where the hand stamp brass will still need fireformed, any idea what the headstamped stuff starts life as. For good Norma brass, I don’t feel he’s out of line for his made brass, as long as it lasts.
    Click to expand...

    I believe rent. He told me contact him when the time comes and they would send a reamer to which ever smith. I know one of the guys on the thread had used Chad at LRI so maybe Chad has a reamer in his inventory? Might be worth asking him. I haven't decided who i'm going to use yet if Chad has a reamer it will almost 100% be him especially considering his turnaround time.
     
    I didn’t realize LRI would mess with rented reamers, not sure what made me think that.
     
    Yeah so I'm about 2 years away I think but had thought 7 saum as well. Thanks for the heads up on this cartridge as I'll be watching it's progress closely.
     
    Tjfarmer said:
    I didn’t realize LRI would mess with rented reamers, not sure what made me think that.
    Click to expand...

    Like i said might be worth talking to Chad about.

    TimeWillTell said:
    Yeah so I'm about 2 years away I think but had thought 7 saum as well. Thanks for the heads up on this cartridge as I'll be watching it's progress closely.
    Click to expand...

    I'm sold on principle alone honestly. It might be a little more pricey to get into loading wise but all i have to do is fireform, no neck turning. The fact that i can run a 175/180 at 3000fps without dipping into the column of powder at mag length and still in a short action is awesome. I'll probably go for 175gr at 3050 or so considering that i'm wanting to stick with a 24" tube.

    Here are the guys making the brass. I remember reading about them a short time ago. Seems to be good. They're expected Q3 for 7 SAUM brass so i'm not sure when 7SS would actually get done. Rich says their 338 edge brass has been phenomenal. I asked them when they would expect headstamped SS brass.
    https://www.facebook.com/ADG-Cartridge-Brass-536487436700987/
    26952191_566330393716691_6124525566309551770_o.jpg
     
    Why fuck around? Get him to send you a fired formed and sized case with the bullet seated to the OAL you want, send it to JGS to make you a reamer (if they don't have one on the shelf). $175 and 8 weeks later and you're set. Then fire form a few and send them to Whidden for a FL sizing die. Done.
     
    FatBoy said:
    Why fuck around? Get him to send you a fired formed and sized case with the bullet seated to the OAL you want, send it to JGS to make you a reamer (if they don't have one on the shelf). $175 and 8 weeks later and you're set. Then fire form a few and send them to Whidden for a FL sizing die. Done.
    Click to expand...

    I'm going to try and get the barrel first. Try to assemble the loading components this summer, probably within may. I also have plans for a new optic this summer. I'm currently not generating income because of graduate school and i start Dental School in August, so other than this summer that's not likely to change. I don't think we get summers off anymore once we start i'm pretty sure UMMC went to going year around for the Dental School.
    I didn't want to have to wait on a reamer for one nor pay the additional cost. Rich has dies and brass ready to go. 275$ for a whidden bushing FL and sizing die. So similar to what i paid for redding. Norma prepped brass is 2.70$, dunno when ADG will get theirs out. I am going to contact LRI and see if they have one though.
     
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    5RWill said:
    I'm going to try and get the barrel first. Try to assemble the loading components this summer, probably within may. I also have plans for a new optic this summer. I'm currently not generating income because of graduate school and i start Dental School in August, so other than this summer that's not likely to change. I don't think we get summers off anymore once we start i'm pretty sure UMMC went to going year around for the Dental School.
    I didn't want to have to wait on a reamer for one nor pay the additional cost. Rich has dies and brass ready to go. 275$ for a whidden bushing FL and sizing die. So similar to what i paid for redding. Norma prepped brass is 2.70$, dunno when ADG will get theirs out. I am going to contact LRI and see if they have one though.
    Click to expand...

    Ha yeah I know that feeling. MD here, trying to get a bunch of loans gone ASAP. Good luck man!
     
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    spife7980 said:
    Then get off of here! Nothing you see here will make that happen faster! I was once going to buy a new car... now, instead, I’m rebarreling stuff that isn’t even shot out yet
    Click to expand...

    Haha no joke but ther is a balance of fun/hobbies vs work. Pretty much the sole reason I haven't done any PRS or other match stuff to this point.
     
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    TimeWillTell said:
    Ha yeah I know that feeling. MD here, trying to get a bunch of loans gone ASAP. Good luck man!



    Haha no joke but ther is a balance of fun/hobbies vs work. Pretty much the sole reason I haven't done any PRS or other match stuff to this point.
    Click to expand...

    Thanks man. There's definitely a balance. We're taking classes with the current D1s right now, so already getting a small taste of some of what's to come next year. Trying to get some things done before i actually start. I.E. this barrel for the TL3 and a high end optic for my comp rifle.

    Been searching for deals on PROOF barrels. One guy had a certificate on LRH for 600$ or so wish i would've caught that. There are two on here for retail that i made an offer on. I'm thinking 1 in 8 24" and trying to run 180gr ELD-Ms at 3000fps. I think it's going to be harder than anticipated though, that 180gr ELD-M is looong as hell. Definitely going to be pushing higher pressure than the 180gr Hybrid at the same node.
     
    Pretty sure Chad and company have built several of the Sherman Shorts for the O'neil OPS guys. So they may already have the reamer for the 7.

     
    Wyfox said:
    Pretty sure Chad and company have built several of the Sherman Shorts for the O'neil OPS guys. So they may already have the reamer for the 7.
    Click to expand...
    I was thinking the same. I saw that video a couple of times. Then the SS built my Chad so i assume they do.
     
    Tjfarmer said:
    I sent a contact to him off LRI website about it, not sure how soon I’ll hear back.thanks guys
    Click to expand...
    Any news on LRI? I'm thinking of going local also with David Gray at Deep South Tactical.

    I've got a bit of a dilemma. I want to run the 180gr ELD-M at 3000fps give or take, that's the goal. I'm going to order the proof soon. Settled on Sendero Lite according to calculators 1in8 or 1in8.44 will stabilize it. I've been leaning toward 24" because i know all too well i'm going to run it suppressed almost exclusively. That said given the nature of this bullet (long bearing surface) i think it's going to be inherently harder to get it to 3000 than say a 180gr Hybrid. So do i go 26 or 24? On one hand i'm a huge fan of shorter rifles and if i could get away with it i'd love to with the 24" + the omega gives me roughly 31" or 30" OAL of the barrel. Add those two inches and it's the same length as my comp gun with my 9" TBAC. Maybe i should just do 26" with a 1in8?

    Scratch that, BC is king not velocity going to stick with 24" as a member on LRH told me 50-70fps isn't going to be all that much difference.
     
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    5RWill said:
    Speeds reported from a 26" tube are impressive as well. 3200fps for 168s, 3100fps for 175s, 3070fps for 180s, and 2955fps for 195s. These are all on RL26.
    Click to expand...

    Where was this info posted? Curious what load they ran for the 195's.
     
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    ADG also replied and said they have only talked to Rich about 6.5 SS and the 6.5 SST. Said it would be the summer before they have anything ready. That said with brass available from Rich i'm not too concerned. I suppose I could take an expanding mandrel and open up the 6.5 SS to 7mm. I'll ask rich about it.
     
    Thats funny, rich just told me they are making it as 7ss. Either way, sounds like he gets a test batch this spring, I just hope it’s good.
     
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    Tjfarmer said:
    Thats funny, rich just told me they are making it as 7ss. Either way, sounds like he gets a test batch this spring, I just hope it’s good.
    Click to expand...

    From what i hear they do. I think they've been doing 338 edge for a while and it's been phenomenal. IIRC Rich said there a bunch of guys who left remington. They also said they're monitoring 6.5 SAUM closely.
     
    Sheldon N said:
    I'm at 59.6gr of RL26 behind a Berger 195 in a 7 SAUM at 2.95 COAL, 2870fps from a 30" barrel. If you can get that speed from a smaller capacity case and a shorter barrel, that's very impressive.
    Click to expand...

    Yeah his results are pretty impressive. That was at 2.930 IIRC also. Dunno where he is as far as DA and all that is concerned. Charge for charge it seems to outpace the original case. Seems an inherently stronger case design delivers more efficient burn rates. What he did i thought was pretty ingenious. Shortening the OAL of the case, lengthening the neck, and then Ackley Improving the shoulder to make up for the lost case capacity.

    You should read that thread, Wilkup pushes wildly past what i would consider safe i think he went to 65gr of RL26 with a 180gr hybrid out of a 23" barrel and managed 3133fps. I have very little experience with SAUMs but i can't hardly push at all on dad's 6.5 SAUM with hornady brass. So either the effect of quality brass is really skewing my view on how impressive it is or the case design is just more efficient. It's to note Rich is getting 12 reloads on his converted Norma.

    https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/7-mm-sherman-shortmag-vs-7-saum.155921/page-12#post-1247314
     
    I suspect there is some efficiency gain due to case shape and 40 degree shoulder. Quickload has my 59.6gr charge at 60k PSI, so he's pushing up there so agree that he's pushing the limits to get those kinds of speeds.
     
    At a dozen reloads and still going strong, I’d guess he’s not pushing too hard, with the history of the 7saum casehead design. But I am listen and will be careful when mine gets done
     
    Rich will have headstamped brass available some time this summer for the 6.5ss. I don't know if he's planning on having any 7ss or 6.5sst made given the amount of brass he'll have to buy. I believe it's made by ADG and will be run along side their 6.5 SAUM run. It will need fireforming. The point of the brass is headstamp and not having to modify 7 or 300 SAUM brass and deal with neck turning and the doughnut.

    I made myself a 6.5ss a couple weeks ago and am now narrowing down the load. 59.2 grains of R26 with a 140 ELD is gave me SD's in the 3's and around 3260 'ish velocity with a 26" Proof steel barrel this past weekend. This outshoots my 6.5 WSMs by nearly 100 fps. I need to verify the load and repeatability.

    Rich gets his reamers made by JGS and they will only sell them to him. A few gunsmiths have reamers but he'll rent them to anybody.
     
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    Yeah he told me over PM that he was getting 7 SS brass on the way but maybe he meant 6SS. ADG is indeed the supplier as both him and ADG have confirmed.

    Parshal those are some serious speeds. Damn makes me want to grab a 6.5 blank too.
     
    The first time I had it out I was getting a bit over 3200. I ran it side by side with my WSM and it was 50 'ish FPS faster. When I had it out last weekend it was a different reload process and it was 15 degrees warmer. R26 has been temp sensitive in all the rifles I use it in (every rifle I own) so I don't know yet if it was the loads or the powder.

    The ADG brass is going to be expensive but it's supposed to have "Lapua-like" life so it might pay for itself in the end. I don't need headstamped brass so I don't see myself buying any.
     
    I've heard good things about ADG from Rich and one other source that i can't remember. I think it might have been Sam Millard sharing something about them. 2.70$ish is what we're looking at so yes expensive. Though it wouldn't bother me too much for headstamped brass, not prepping, and it's going in a hunting rifle. The question is, is how long is Rich going to sell prepped brass? I'm looking to avoid the prep work.

    Are you prepping all of them from 6.5 SAUM?
     
    Yes, I'm prepping mine. If you go that route, prep small batches at a time, like 25. Each time you do it you'll figure out a better way for the next time.

    It's really not difficult at all. I size mine down from 7 SAUM in a shortened 6.5 SAUM die. I neck and size at the same time. Then, trim to length (leave long) and trim the necks. Trim length after firing and you're ready to go. I've added a couple more steps checking for an inside doughnut and leaving the necks thicker for the first firing and trimming again after fireforming. It's still pretty darned easy but, yes, it does take time away from other tasks.
     
    Till the ADG is running, then he’s planning on not making it anymore is what he told me, I asked what happens if adg doesn’t pan out to be good, wouldn’t be the first time... Facebook page by next week, website in month or so.
     
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    As I was making some brass today I pondered the idea of making brass for people. I even thought about a dedicated fireforming barrel and stainless steel pin cleaning so the person gets what looks to be brand new brass ready to go. Then, after thinking about it a bit more, I realized it would cost the person close to the price of ADG brass if you factor in my powder, primer, bullets, barrel wear and time.
     
    Following this as I too am working on a 7SS to add to me TL3. Rock Creek 1:8 medium palma should be here soon
     
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    Proof came in today, sent it to friends, will pick it up tomorrow. Probably wont get it to DST until may when this graduate program ends. Will be trying to collect supplies until then though.
     
    Talked to Rich Sherman today (elkaholic on LRH) to get it straight form the horse's mouth so to speak. ADG brass is scheduled to come headstamped in both 6.5SS and 7SS ans 6.5SST. At this time the brass will come as SAUM profile and will need to be fire formed. As demand increases then he will see about the extra expense of having the brass formed as well as the headstamp. The SST will take full loads to fireform, the SS brass should be done with reduced loads. Neck turning it not needed.

    The other Sherman Short Magnum cartridges will need to be necked up or down from there.
    The current list of cartridges/calibers are 6mm, 6.5mm, 270, 7mm, 300, 338 in the Sherman Magnum and Sherman Short Magnum.
    6mm and 6.5mm are currently available in the Sherman Short Tactical configuration for a little more bomb proof feeding in pushfeed PRS style rifles.

    Rich is happy to ship his carbide reamers to your preferred gunsmith. Currently Eric Gross at AxisWorks has reamers on hand but Rich will be expanding his list of partnered gunsmiths once the ADG brass comes online.

    He has also been working with Shawn Thomason at Diamond T Rifles in Craigmont, ID to offer Savage/Remage style prefit barrels.
     
    5RWill said:
    That i'm unsure of Rich will rent them to whoever you need. I know LRI did a 7 SS at some point in the last year IIRC.
    Click to expand...
    You might want to call Chad on this. I got a email back from him, maybe I misunderstood his email, saying he does not do rented reamers, yet he has done a few 6.5ss in the past.
    I got a guy doing a 7ss, guess I’ll wait for reamers to become avail or find a place to do a prefit for my target savage action. Maybe I’ll try diamond t rifles from the post above and get a gauge to install it from rich for the 6.5ss
     
    You've got to push the shoulders back on SAUM cases to fit in the SS chamber.
     
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