6.5C 140 eld loaded 2.82 coal Peterson brass charge 42.5 to 44.5 in .5 increments case fill at 44.5 was near 100 percent with the bullet seated I will shoot them hopefully tomorrow and report back
6.5C 140 eld loaded 2.82 coal Peterson brass charge 42.5 to 44.5 in .5 increments case fill at 44.5 was near 100 percent with the bullet seated I will shoot them hopefully tomorrow and report back
6.5C 140 eld loaded 2.82 coal Peterson brass charge 42.5 to 44.5 in .5 increments case fill at 44.5 was near 100 percent with the bullet seated I will shoot them hopefully tomorrow and report back
I agree very dirty like black powderA shooter on Long Range Only forum posted the powder is very dirty ?
That’s an interesting observation. Is there any data to show that there is a real advantage to using the de-coppering agents? I ask due to not knowing if there is or isn’t. I have used the first two powders sparingly since I already get enough carbon in my brakes and can.There seems to be a pattern with powders that have de-coppering agents and being dirty. RL16, CFE223 are examples, and now Staball.
Sure is nice crankin our 6.5 Creedmoore on the 650 . I hate spending all that time weighing each charge individually. I don’t have the time with kids etc... This powder is like the holy grail for someone like me. More time shooting less time in the reloading room.
This was my thoughts with Staball. While maybe dirty, cranking out 6.5cm loads on my XL650 throwing charges for my 6.5cm gasser sounds amazing! I already process 6.5cm brass on a dedicated 650 toolhead. De-prime, push shoulder back 0.0015" with Forster FL Sizing die, push shoulder back remaining .0015" with FL Trim die and squeeze neck down and trim with RT1500, run through 21st century TiN mandrel to set final neck tension. All with the pull of a handle.
Now if I can crank out loaded rounds with staball, awesome. If only the new bullet feeder I had coming would do 6.5 bullets. It only does 9mm, 45 and 223 right now. Now that would be FAST!
I gave staball a run in my wife’s 6 creed today. I’m a bit disappointmented. Now a little bit about this rifle, it’s a trued remmy with bart 22” m24 1-7.5 done by alamo in hurst texas and in my opinion has always been on the slow side compared to every velocity/charge weight I’ve ever read. I typically load 105 hybrids with 41.9 h4350 at 3050. (Keep in mind it’s my wife’s gun, it’s 15lbs and she is a new shooter so recoil in an issue) I did a ladder load from 41 to 43.7 all charges were dropped on an autotrickler fx120 (the autothrow was a nightmare, had to use a lee dipper) on lapua brass that’s 3x fired neck turned (cleaned up/evened out) that’s annealed every firing, sized with a redding non bushing die bumped .002 and mandrel expanded with a K&m -.002 mandrel and seated with a redding comp seater. The best es I had was 40!! although I only got to 2990fps and I had no pressure signs, this gun has never not shot a ragged hole with just about any load at 100y. I am a bit defeated. I bought an 8lb jug and was super stoked to be able to load on my progressive just like the rest of y’all are talking about. I Was really hoping to have at least a .3-.5gr node to be comfortable dropping and not trickling. I could use some advice from y’all, it doesn’t matter if it is/isn’t temp stable if I can’t get it to shoot. Also a disclaimer I cleaned cleaned the barrel last week but before the test today I shot 15 factory hornady 105’s through it, never cleaned a gun before with kroil/jb but the fellas at Alamo told/showed me how and said it would take a bit to shoot back in, I did my 6.5creed the same way and it hammered today from the cold bore until the last shot I fired I think I shot 70 through it so I don’t think that’s the issue.
This was my thoughts with Staball. While maybe dirty, cranking out 6.5cm loads on my XL650 throwing charges for my 6.5cm gasser sounds amazing! I already process 6.5cm brass on a dedicated 650 toolhead. De-prime, push shoulder back 0.0015" with Forster FL Sizing die, push shoulder back remaining .0015" with FL Trim die and squeeze neck down and trim with RT1500, run through 21st century TiN mandrel to set final neck tension. All with the pull of a handle.
Now if I can crank out loaded rounds with staball, awesome. If only the new bullet feeder I had coming would do 6.5 bullets. It only does 9mm, 45 and 223 right now. Now that would be FAST!
If you are on insta look up kcshooter he had great results from a harrelSomebody stuff this behind a 6?? and see what happens. I'm wanting to shoot a 6mm tis next year that's less needy when it comes to reloading steps. And F mag kits.
I think I was a full grain above book value there. (Could be wrong)I will run it up a bit higherI had 40 grains in my dasher so I know you’re most likely not where you need to be with your powder charge with a 6CM. Any particular reason why you decided to stop at 43.7? Sounds like you still have room to go up.
IMR4451 as well.There seems to be a pattern with powders that have de-coppering agents and being dirty. RL16, CFE223 are examples, and now Staball.
I think you’re in the same boat as I am, heavier charges and more case fill is what I’m going to try to even out my loadsShot a ladder in a 20" 6.5 creed gas gun today. 130 Berger hybrids, hornady brass, fed 210's. 55 degrees outside.
5 shots of each of the following charges, measured by magneetospeed v3.
43.5 gr: 2646 fps, 23.1 SD
44.0 gr: 2637 fps, 28.5 SD (strange this went down in velocity)
44.5 gr: 2694 fps, 18.8 SD
45.0 gr: 2720 fps, 39.4 SD!!
(edit to address the SD's, these were charged with an RCBS 1500. so charges are accurate to the tenth of a grain.)
Not impressed so far, very high SD's. I had no pressure signs from any charge, so I can keep going up on the charge. Maybe I will hit a node with better SD and get the velocity up as I increase the charge. For reference, this same gun/bullet/brass/primer combo with 43.5 gr H4350 shoots 2790fps with a 7.3 SD.
Accuracy at 100 yards was fine, nothing great nothing awful. Worst group was probably 1.5", best was prob .8" (I didn't measure I am just estimating here).
But as others have said it is dirty as hell. By far the dirtiest powder I have ever used. I was shooting suppressed so that makes it worse, but it's in a league of it's own of any other powder I have shot. The difference between the cases shot with it and 4350 is a massive difference.
I'm no expert, those charges were safe in my gun, they may not be in yours, start low and work up. These are just my results from shooting my first ladder with staball.
I think you’re in the same boat as I am, heavier charges and more case fill is what I’m going to try to even out my loads
I think you’re right, usually hornady book is below the Hodgdon website and they are listing 42.8. Which seems more accurate. I load 42.4 in my 140 loads for my creed and 41.6 for my 147s. Why would they do that? Are they trying to push the staball? Or? It doesn’t make sense, they stand to make money no matter what powder they sell am I right?Yea, after my very premature and short testing, it's looking like the only benefit is metering. And if I can get the speed up and SD down, that's a pretty big deal. But I'm not holding my breath right now. I had high expectations due to the claims from Winchester, but my first ladder severely tempered those.
On a side note, did Hodgdon lower the H4350 numbers in their online reloading database when staball was released? I don't remember what their numbers were before but I really think they lowered them to make Staball look better. After Staball was released, the current max charge listed on their online load data for a 130 gr bullet in 6.5 Creedmoor with H4350 is 39.2 gr which is laughably low.
Hodgdon Official Reloading Database
View attachment 7184071
Also they list the FPS at 2687? Why the fuck would you want to run a 130 that slow. Isn’t that Grendel numbers with a 130?Yea, after my very premature and short testing, it's looking like the only benefit is metering. And if I can get the speed up and SD down, that's a pretty big deal. But I'm not holding my breath right now. I had high expectations due to the claims from Winchester, but my first ladder severely tempered those.
On a side note, did Hodgdon lower the H4350 numbers in their online reloading database when staball was released? I don't remember what their numbers were before but I really think they lowered them to make Staball look better. After Staball was released, the current max charge listed on their online load data for a 130 gr bullet in 6.5 Creedmoor with H4350 is 39.2 gr which is laughably low.
Hodgdon Official Reloading Database
View attachment 7184071
Jamming in the lands will result in a different max than when using an OAL 50 thou off the lands. Jamming in the lands may result in premature blown primers.
Some times yes. But the 147 load is right on the money for me velocity wiseNo, a Grendel with a 130 out of a 22" barrel is like 2450
I don't even know why you guys are concerning your selves with those numbers. They're always extremely conservative, to the point they don't reflect what people are actually shooting
I’ve never felt the need to jam into the lands during load development. I’ve read about it and get why some may choose to do so, but don’t feel that there’s any advantage in doing so.
Book (grains) is more like a guideline. If you had a way to measure pressure you would see that it takes a different amount of grains to achieve the same pressure as book with your rifle and loads. That's why it's a good idea to load up to find "your" MAX. And make sure you're jamming the lands in doing so.
I would advise a new reloader to start at jam so they know their overarching max but I also suggest they don’t actually load hot enough charges to get into the real pressure issues. However it provides confidence that powder level won’t blow it up.
Myself, I start at .010 off for the initial round and then seat deeper later. It’s just the process I’ve adopted and I’m comfortable with it.
I agree but I’m not giving up on it yet. At the very least I bet I can make some excellent 223 gas gun loads from itagree the staball isnt looking like the miracle everyone was hoping for.
At the very least I bet I can make some excellent 223 gas gun loads from it
I was under the impression it was faster than 4350. Like in between that and vargetDoubtful you will be able to use it for 223 gas guns. It has a burn speed near 4350 / Win. 760. Way too slow for 223.
7mm-08 Ackley
FC 12 brass
162gr ELD-M
2.9 COAL
Staball
45°
107yards to target
49.6
2889
2886
2875
2881
2887
Average 2882
SD 5
49.8
2871
2885
2896
2887
2909
Average 2889
SD 13
50.0
2882
2905
2904
2906
2907
Average 2901
SD 9.45
Accuracy was ok. See pictures below. The middle load was weird. Had hard bolt lifts, worse groups and higher SD. On that last group, I pulled that one to the left. I was getting nervous. I feel like it would've been under or a round 1 MOA
That's crazy velocity. I wonder if this is worth a swing with the 7mm SAW. I run my current load using a 160TMK with 46.0gr of RL16 and see 2840fps. I saw a peak of 2865fps with 46.4gr of RL16 and a 162 ELD-M right before hitting pressure, and ran some 2000MR with the 175gr Berger and saw up to 2882fps but it was more inconsistent than my ex-fiance's mental state.
This matches my experience as well, but with that said you can cram more staball into your brass than 4350 or Rl16 and exceed both in overall velocities.So just got back from the range and as I pour through the data into a spreadsheet I'll throw this out there.
6.5 CM, 22"bbl
140gr ELD
43gr Staball = 2605fps
43gr H4350 = 2711fps
43gr RL16= 2760fps
Same everything but powder