Vudoo V-22S Single Shot BR/F-Class Action

[RAVAGE88]

Ivan, I realize you designed the game and you can certainly state what your intention was and is. I will state what many of us see of it and hopefully you can clarify. We can agree to disagree, that's ok. At first it was named factory class, but the rules make it pretty clear that it is anything but factory to most. Goes back to my statement above about intent. I don't doubt you had a vision for that class as you outline, but to the normal person trying to make sense of it it's hard to see any factory left in it. I don't think most of us look at keeping just an action and replacing the rest of a gun as factory.

The name was changed to Factory Hot Rod. Definitely more appropriate, but still a bit loose with the factory term in my view (I realize my opinion doesn't matter in this and that's ok, just giving an opinion).

Like was said above, the intention of ARA factory was for new shooters. I can also fully understand that you are in a partnership with Vudoo and it would only make sense to try and take full advantage of that. I personally think both factory classes fall a bit short for those guys in the middle with true Factory 40x's, 52's, etc. Take a V22S action and do most of what you would to a custom rifle, but shoot it off of a two piece rest and it is now a factory hod rod? I don't see the real difference. It's still a custom shooting against a factory gun for me. If that is the case, why simply not have a 1 piece rest and two piece rest division? It's an honest question. I know you think I am trying to bust your balls on it, but that is not the case. I have spoken out against the ARA factory class as well as I think it fell short, but again it's not up to me.

Based on your last statement does that mean that all Factory Hot Rods would have to produce 1000 rifles per year, or just 1000 total. A Suhl hasn't been produced in 30 years, so I guess it falls under a category of 1000 actions produced? Is that the real standard? I don't have any idea if Jerry has produced a 1000 actions total, but if that is the standard, then it would seem that should be ok if he has. Or are you saying that any Factory Hot Rod must use the original barrel provided by the manufacturer? It appears from the rules it can use essentially any other parts, so why would one be able to use a V22S and not a 2500X. I think that is a fair question. If you are going to limit it to only barrels put on by the manufacturer, then ok that may make more sense, but Jerry has done that as well. Based on the rules posted, that doesn't appear to be the case though.

Edit: I reread and you say 1000 rifles produced each year of production. I guess that is for any year in which they did produce them. Seems an easy way to exclude some at the benefit of others when they are essentially the exact same thing if all that matters is the action anyway. Again, just an opinion.

As you can see we could take this down to many details and clarification. Again I know you think I am trying to bust your balls about this, but I am simply wanting to clarify exact details. I may have a gun I can shoot in Factory Hot Rod if I want (well I do have a V22 Repeater so I could, but that is not the one I was thinking of), but I may also not depending on details. I suspect I am not the only one wanting to know more. The perception, whether true or not, is that the Factory Hot Rod class is there in some form to push the Vudoo's. Again, not an issue for me, but I feel it is only fair to explain exactly why the others wouldn't be included. I know Mike mentioned that RimX would be allowed in it. They don't produce complete rifles that I am aware of and I am not sure they will produce 1000 this year.

There is simply a lot of unclear details for me and I think many others. Just trying to get some clarification.

I would hope you know me well enough to realize I don't have an agenda against you or anyone else or for anyone else. You may not believe that but it's the truth.

Jamie

Actually, what I said about the RimX as it relates to this particular subject on another forum is that it can't be single fed. I don't believe I said it was or wasn't allowed.

MB

 

[Hozzie]

Actually, what I said about the RimX as it relates to this particular subject on another forum is that it can't be single fed. I don't believe I said it was or wasn't allowed.

MB

Ok, thanks Mike. I realize it can't be single fed due to the extractor design, but thought someone had asked if it would be allowed and it was said yes. I may be wrong.

 

[Candoo]

What's funny is the Bullet PRO 150 shooters that are shooting this are having no problem what so ever understanding what we are trying to do here. Their opinion has value to me, so does their ideas. Your thoughts or opinion have NO VALUE to me. I saw you in St Louis this weekend, it's also funny you had no questions for me there about anything to do with Bullet Pro 150 or even the new Vudoo action that you could have seen. But you get behind a keyboard and all of a sudden you are an expert on all things rimfire. Are you trying to take Wally's place, if so I think you are doing a great job at that. I'm also not going to waste my time with your negative, meaningless rhetoric back and forth. I have no intentions of trying to teach a water bug how to wash dishes. Jamie Congrats on your 39th place finish out of 71 in the PSL and 47th place in the ARA out of a 100 at St. Louis.

Ivanhoe

 

[Hozzie]

Ivan, it must be a lonely world thinking everyone is always out to get you. I hope you eventually find what you are looking for.

I finished exactly where I would expect based on the effort I have put in this year. I go mainly for the people and if I have a bad week, so be it. I am no expert and don't claim to be. I am comfortable in my standing in the shooting community as a person.

 

[Sgeorge]

Ivan, if this guy is anything like Smallwood and Calfee, I completely understand

 

[Cmkaco]

Wow, lots of great information on this thread. As a Vudoo repeater owner, I reached out to Vudoo for advice on getting started in rimfire benchrest, and they told me about their new action, and this thread. What I am having trouble getting detailed information on is getting started in rimfire benchrest. I have looked at the websites of various benchrest organizations, and aside from copies of their rules, there is not a lot of detailed information that would educate a total newbie, like me, on how to get started on learning the sport, how to improve, what type of equipment you need, and why one type of action or rifle is better than another. I would greatly appreciate it if those of you involved in the sport could direct me to some sources to get me started. Many thanks!

 

[marks_a18138]

Wow, lots of great information on this thread. As a Vudoo repeater owner, I reached out to Vudoo for advice on getting started in rimfire benchrest, and they told me about their new action, and this thread. What I am having trouble getting detailed information on is getting started in rimfire benchrest. I have looked at the websites of various benchrest organizations, and aside from copies of their rules, there is not a lot of detailed information that would educate a total newbie, like me, on how to get started on learning the sport, how to improve, what type of equipment you need, and why one type of action or rifle is better than another. I would greatly appreciate it if those of you involved in the sport could direct me to some sources to get me started. Many thanks!

What area of the country are you in. I am new to all of it also. I have shot some ARA, BP150 and ABRA.

 

[Cmkaco]

Hi Mark, I am in Northern Virginia, near Washington, DC. Looks like, from my research that there may actually be some rimfire benchrest clubs in this area, so I might reach out to some of them, but I would love to have some resources to look at before that, so I know what questions I would like to ask. This is not a great area for shooting, but it is what it is.

 

[tonykharper]

Hi Mark, I am in Northern Virginia, near Washington, DC. Looks like, from my research that there may actually be some rimfire benchrest clubs in this area, so I might reach out to some of them, but I would love to have some resources to look at before that, so I know what questions I would like to ask. This is not a great area for shooting, but it is what it is.

Cmkaco,

If you have read the the forums on http://www.rimfireaccuracy.com/Forums/ and http://benchrest.com/forumdisplay.php?3-Rimfire-Benchrest central http://www.wwaccuracy.com/forum.php and still didn't find the info you need may I recommend you drive south on I 81 to Luray, Va. 19 Sept. The Piney Hill indoor range is located on Piney Hill road. There is a match scheduled at 0900hrs. There will be many people there that will be happy to answer any questions you may have plus you will be able to see first hand equipment being used. If you get there a little early I'm sure someone will even let you have a go with their equipment.

TKH

 

[RAVAGE88]

Wow, lots of great information on this thread. As a Vudoo repeater owner, I reached out to Vudoo for advice on getting started in rimfire benchrest, and they told me about their new action, and this thread. What I am having trouble getting detailed information on is getting started in rimfire benchrest. I have looked at the websites of various benchrest organizations, and aside from copies of their rules, there is not a lot of detailed information that would educate a total newbie, like me, on how to get started on learning the sport, how to improve, what type of equipment you need, and why one type of action or rifle is better than another. I would greatly appreciate it if those of you involved in the sport could direct me to some sources to get me started. Many thanks!

CMKACO, thanks for joining us here, your question illustrates the many reasons I/we (Vudoo) were asked to do an action for not just Benchrest (BR), but for numerous disciplines requiring such an action. If you hang here with us, there's an incredible resource in Ivan Wells ( @Candoo ), whom has accomplished quite a lot in the BR, not just competitively, but building rifles under Ivanhoe Rifles and designing and making his own one-piece rest, wind flags, etc. I'd dare say, he's at the top of the game in every respect of what it takes to succeed in BR.

In addition, I can/will answer whatever questions you may have about the V-22S action and as @tonykharper stated, you have a range nearby where you can absorb more detail. Welcome and let us know what you need....

MB

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Wow, lots of great information on this thread. As a Vudoo repeater owner, I reached out to Vudoo for advice on getting started in rimfire benchrest, and they told me about their new action, and this thread. What I am having trouble getting detailed information on is getting started in rimfire benchrest. I have looked at the websites of various benchrest organizations, and aside from copies of their rules, there is not a lot of detailed information that would educate a total newbie, like me, on how to get started on learning the sport, how to improve, what type of equipment you need, and why one type of action or rifle is better than another. I would greatly appreciate it if those of you involved in the sport could direct me to some sources to get me started. Many thanks!

Find a local match and go. Walk around, watch and ask questions. You'll figure out who's willing to talk who wants to be left alone. Most will be more than happy to educate you on their set up and what's going on. From there you can get an idea of what type of gear is needed. How do you eat an elephant?

 

[jstiller]

......It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that you and you're group on RA is trying to do everything they can to try to suppress Bullet PRO 150. The rule will state that there has to be at least 1000 Factory production rifles made each production year. Guess what if Jerry Stiller wants to produce a 1000 or more rifles a year his brand will be legal.

Ivanhoe

First of all, Jerry Stiller will never be building 1000 or more rifles a year. Holeshot will build a couple hundred receivers and a few guns for select individuals every year at the most. I have NO desire to work that hard anymore, I'm trying to cut back, not add more.

As for your comment about "you're group on RA" trying to suppress BulletPro 150, that is so far from the truth you are clueless. I am RA, Hozzie is my admin and I will state neither one of us want to suppress BP150. Actually, I have been supportive of both you and Mike on RA, and have always allowed you to post and say anything you guys want over there. It is for all rimfire shooters to use and get information from and out to shooters. Another shooting sanction is just more places to shoot and more shooters for our suppliers to sell stuff to. Joe Chacon and the ABRA fit in the same deal.

Ivan, you really need to get over thinking everyone's goal in life is to screw you over and stop you from doing whatever it is you want to do. I hope BP150 is successful. You have a big task at hand though. If you are going after a new audience like ABRA did, it will take a lot of work and marketing, but should be relatively doable. IF you are going after ARA, PSL and IR50 shooters, you have a long row to hoe. Especially ARA. It is very well run, has all the logistics in place, is truly run like a business by a business and is established. Either way, I wish you the best of luck as I have always told you.

In the end, DON'T COME ON HERE ACCUSING ME OF TRYING TO SUPPRESS YOU IN A PUBLIC FORUM. IT UNFAIRLY LABELS ME TO SHOOTERS THAT MAY NOT KNOW ME OR KNOW ANY BETTER. Enough said.

 

[Candoo]

First of all, Jerry Stiller will never be building 1000 or more rifles a year. Holeshot will build a couple hundred receivers and a few guns for select individuals every year at the most. I have NO desire to work that hard anymore, I'm trying to cut back, not add more.

As for your comment about "you're group on RA" trying to suppress BulletPro 150, that is so far from the truth you are clueless. I am RA, Hozzie is my admin and I will state neither one of us want to suppress BP150. Actually, I have been supportive of both you and Mike on RA, and have always allowed you to post and say anything you guys want over there. It is for all rimfire shooters to use and get information from and out to shooters. Another shooting sanction is just more places to shoot and more shooters for our suppliers to sell stuff to. Joe Chacon and the ABRA fit in the same deal.

Ivan, you really need to get over thinking everyone's goal in life is to screw you over and stop you from doing whatever it is you want to do. I hope BP150 is successful. You have a big task at hand though. If you are going after a new audience like ABRA did, it will take a lot of work and marketing, but should be relatively doable. IF you are going after ARA, PSL and IR50 shooters, you have a long row to hoe. Especially ARA. It is very well run, has all the logistics in place, is truly run like a business by a business and is established. Either way, I wish you the best of luck as I have always told you.

In the end, DON'T COME ON HERE ACCUSING ME OF TRYING TO SUPPRESS YOU IN A PUBLIC FORUM. IT UNFAIRLY LABELS ME TO SHOOTERS THAT MAY NOT KNOW ME OR KNOW ANY BETTER. Enough said.

# 1 First of all Jerry Stiller then retire I do not think anyone cares.

# 2 As far as the comment about RA, once again why are you even on snipers hide? Like you said you are RA, you have your own channel. You come over here saying my rest won't work on someone else's stock and a few posts back there it is with one of your stocks in it being tested in my tunnel. You DID NOT have a clue what you were talking about. The minute Bullet PRO 150 was posted on RA you started in your own little way of trying to belittle and scare shooters away from it. If you call that support PLEASE stay out, I don't and never did need your help ever to be successful. Also don't worry about me ever posting anything on RA ever, so talk all the garbage you want.

#3 Jerry, Jamie or RA is not going to keep me from being successful, If I wanted your thoughts or opinion I would ask for it. I am not starting anything with anybody. You don't see me trash talking anything you are doing, I could honestly careless what you or your boy are doing. Do me a favor and show the same respect. I am also not going after any sanctioned body, I have started holding ARA matches with Bullet PRO 150 matches. Joe (ABRA)has already offered to have Bullet PRO 150 matches. There is plenty of room for our sport to grow. Once again you have never been to an Bullet PRO 150 match, so you don't know how they are ran. As far as the wish me luck thing , YOU and I both know how you really feel.

#4 In the end, STOP RUNNING YOUR MOUTH ON A PUBLIC FORUM, YOUR FORUM OR ANYBODY ELSE'S ABOUT ME, THE EQUIPMENT I BUILD or BULLET PRO 150 and we'll be just fine. Say to yourself it's not real this isn't happening, Tell yourself YOU ARE THE MAN, like you told me in ST. Louis last year at the nationals. I'll see you at a match sooner or later BRING IT!!!

Ivanhoe

 

[marks_a18138]

You know Jerry I actually only see you bringing attention to yourself. I read all the post and no one said anything about you except needing to make 1000 rifles..RFA was mentioned and 99% of the Sniper Hide users have zero clue who RFA forum is since most are not BR shooters. I respect the rfa guys and have used the site for info in the BR world in the past.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

You guys should take this to RimfireCentral.com. Just sayin'.

Then we can stay on topic.

 

[Tim7139]

Wow, lots of great information on this thread. As a Vudoo repeater owner, I reached out to Vudoo for advice on getting started in rimfire benchrest, and they told me about their new action, and this thread. What I am having trouble getting detailed information on is getting started in rimfire benchrest. I have looked at the websites of various benchrest organizations, and aside from copies of their rules, there is not a lot of detailed information that would educate a total newbie, like me, on how to get started on learning the sport, how to improve, what type of equipment you need, and why one type of action or rifle is better than another. I would greatly appreciate it if those of you involved in the sport could direct me to some sources to get me started. Many thanks!

guys give internet forums far too much credit.....or blame, Their benefit has limitations.
the SINGLE best thing you can do is go to a match or two, watch, ask questions, you will be light years ahead.

 

[Rimfireshooter99]

Ivan, I realize you designed the game and you can certainly state what your intention was and is. I will state what many of us see of it and hopefully you can clarify. We can agree to disagree, that's ok. At first it was named factory class, but the rules make it pretty clear that it is anything but factory to most. Goes back to my statement above about intent. I don't doubt you had a vision for that class as you outline, but to the normal person trying to make sense of it it's hard to see any factory left in it. I don't think most of us look at keeping just an action and replacing the rest of a gun as factory.

The name was changed to Factory Hot Rod. Definitely more appropriate, but still a bit loose with the factory term in my view (I realize my opinion doesn't matter in this and that's ok, just giving an opinion).

Like was said above, the intention of ARA factory was for new shooters. I can also fully understand that you are in a partnership with Vudoo and it would only make sense to try and take full advantage of that. I personally think both factory classes fall a bit short for those guys in the middle with true Factory 40x's, 52's, etc. Take a V22S action and do most of what you would to a custom rifle, but shoot it off of a two piece rest and it is now a factory hod rod? I don't see the real difference. It's still a custom shooting against a factory gun for me. If that is the case, why simply not have a 1 piece rest and two piece rest division? It's an honest question. I know you think I am trying to bust your balls on it, but that is not the case. I have spoken out against the ARA factory class as well as I think it fell short, but again it's not up to me.

Based on your last statement does that mean that all Factory Hot Rods would have to produce 1000 rifles per year, or just 1000 total. A Suhl hasn't been produced in 30 years, so I guess it falls under a category of 1000 actions produced? Is that the real standard? I don't have any idea if Jerry has produced a 1000 actions total, but if that is the standard, then it would seem that should be ok if he has. Or are you saying that any Factory Hot Rod must use the original barrel provided by the manufacturer? It appears from the rules it can use essentially any other parts, so why would one be able to use a V22S and not a 2500X. I think that is a fair question. If you are going to limit it to only barrels put on by the manufacturer, then ok that may make more sense, but Jerry has done that as well. Based on the rules posted, that doesn't appear to be the case though.

As you can see we could take this down to many details and clarification. Again I know you think I am trying to bust your balls about this, but I am simply wanting to clarify exact details. I may have a gun I can shoot in Factory Hot Rod if I want (well I do have a V22 Repeater so I could, but that is not the one I was thinking of), but I may also not depending on details. I suspect I am not the only one wanting to know more. The perception, whether true or not, is that the Factory Hot Rod class is there in some form to push the Vudoo's. Again, not an issue for me, but I feel it is only fair to explain exactly why the others wouldn't be included. I know Mike mentioned that RimX would be allowed in it. They don't produce complete rifles that I am aware of and I am not sure they will produce 1000 this year.

At the end of the day, whether one picks a V22S, 2500X, or RimX, I don't see the difference if they can essentially build it completely custom and shoot off of a 2 piece rest and only 1 or 2 of them are legal.

There is simply a lot of unclear details for me and I think many others. Just trying to get some clarification.

I would hope you know me well enough to realize I don't have an agenda against you or anyone else or for anyone else. You may not believe that but it's the truth.

Jamie

Hozzie, I participated in the first BP 150 match, and had a great time. I shot my Anschutz 1903 stock rifle, on a two piece rest and finished tied for first place, before a tie breaker. I shot against others in the class who had a Suhl, a Win52, a few Vudoo's and such. I think that Ivan has created a space for these kind of rifles to be shot in a match, where they can't be shot in other match formats. If I shoot my Anschutz in ARA, then I have to shoot in Unlimited class. Not in Ivan's match format, I can shoot against other rifles which are not entry level, but also not Unlimited rifles. Many of us like to tweak our rifles, maybe a new trigger, or different barrel, and we can still shoot them competitively in Ivan's BP 150 in a class with similar type rifles. So, my perspective is this is a great new opportunity to recognize that folks make some tweaks on their rifles, and this allows them to see how competitive they are in a formal match setting. That's perfect, in my opinion, for folks who have moved past entry level rifles.

Also, it takes time to work out details (I Co-Direct a monthly Postal Match and we have worked on our rules and targets several times since we took over the match admin from a gentleman who passed away. My point is, it takes time to get details down on paper and have them work well in the real world. Let's look a the ARA nationals. The FR class had a Remington SS rifle win the class. Normally, that's not an entry level rifle, but the rules allowed it. That rule will likely get tightened up a bit to make sure the class has real entry level rifles across the approved brands.

Let's give Ivan and his team time to develop the match format and work out those rules. When he's ready, we will learn about the rules for the match and you'll have the info you're looking for. Let's embrace this new opportunity and stop being so critical of others, especially when you have not even got a copy of the rules for the match in front of you yet.

A different perspective for your consideration...

Take care!

 

[Kisssofdeath]

It makes me happy that I see other grown men talking smack to each other. Kinda feel good about myself when I was on RFC. Sounds to me like it's time to put them 5 oz gloves on and step in the Octagon.

 

[AMTGMC]

It makes me happy that I see other grown men talking smack to each other. Kinda feel good about myself when I was on RFC. Sounds to me like it's time to put them 5 oz gloves on and step in the Octagon.

Shhh,
We little rimfires have to keep it down in here or the 6.5 Creeds will hear and give us a beatdown.

 

[JessLynnPappas]

My daughter Rileigh and myself were lucky enough to attend the first BP150 put on in Kentucky. I, myself have attended and participated in several matches within a couple of other BR organizations in the past. The Bp150 was run as well as ANY of the other matches I've attended to date. The people were great, and willing to help with any and every question asked! The BP150 along with the ABRA are both great BR organizations with great venues and are run by people who truly have the shooters best interest at heart! I'm very excited for the future of this sport and potential for growth within the BR community.

 

[Woodoo]

Rimfiershooter99, absolutely well said. Thank you for your insight and contribution!!!!

 

[10ring1]

You guys should take this to RimfireCentral.com. Just sayin'.

Then we can stay on topic.

Anyone have a delivery date yet?

 

[RAVAGE88]

First of all, Jerry Stiller will never be building 1000 or more rifles a year. Holeshot will build a couple hundred receivers and a few guns for select individuals every year at the most. I have NO desire to work that hard anymore, I'm trying to cut back, not add more.

Not to stir the pot in any way, but this statement is one of the biggest reasons I had so many asking me to design and make an action. DiOrio doesn’t and won’t make many either, and collectively, what has been available works pretty well in a limited scope, but for many, doesn’t provide what other shooters are looking for. Aside from that, DiOrio won’t step outside what they’re, questionably, led to do. Not taking anything away from anyone, just factually stating what others, like Jerry, have publicly proclaimed.

The part that’s baffling to me is, as I pour over what’s been stated publicly over a long period of time and considering the info that makes it’s way to me that was verbally spoken, why all the rhetorical chest pounding? Why all the backhanded compliments and pedantic, condescending questioning about rules, etc? It’s all BS, especially when wishes of “luck” aren’t truly sincere. At any rate, through all this, it hasn’t been difficult to see where the disingenuous element resides. So, if you’re going to be genuine in approach and truly support something other than your own self-centered interests, feel welcome at all times to post in this thread or any other related threads. If you can’t find it within yourself to naturally represent what you say, don’t bother posting, as I’ll have it deleted and posting privileges in the thread revoked.

@Dthomas3523

MB

 

[Dthomas3523]

Not going to take the time to read every post.

This thread is about the vudoo rifle itself. If you have issues with a league or organization, send it in a PM, make a thread about it, or post in the appropriate thread.

 

[JG26_Irish]

"The Factory Class was created to draw new shooters into BR"

I am testimony to the ARA Factory class working. But, it is still not drawing loads of shooters. Other than attempting to shoot a couple of unlimited matches with my old Pre-A Win 52 a few years ago, I had never shot BR until this year. We shoot a fun shoot at our club where we play with sporter rifles at night each week and I like holding and firing my rifle as opposed to the one piece rest used in ARA unlimited. I am not an unexperienced competitor having shot IPSC, 3-gun and NRL-22, NRA Hi-Power, college rifle team, etc, in the past. My earlier question to VuDoo was only if their was interest in also making a entry level product someday to compliment the already stunning V22 rifles?

I too shot Ivan's inaugural BP150 match in Somerset and had a great time hanging out with the Pappas Ladies, Glen Spencer, Todd Wooten and Norm and Larry to name a few. I shot a newly acquired, untested, bone stock Win 52 with a antique Fecker 10x scope, It was like bringing a knife to a gun fight and I was not at the top of the score sheet, lol. But I loved the target and the people. I did not know what a big deal the match was going to be or I might have brought a different rifle, lol. Since that time, we have shot the BP150 tgt in an unsanctioned fun shoot at our local club and our club is interested in hosting a sanctioned match sometime in the future. I also shot the ARA Factory Nationals in St Louis since I was making a full season of that class this year, had a great time and shot pretty good I think all considered. I really don't want to move into unlimited for personal reasons. It feels too much like artillery practice to me with dialing up 2 deg elevation and right 1 degree of windage and then sitting back to fire. It just don't do anything for me. But that is not a criticism, to each his own. What Ivan is doing is good, and it is different. I am not totally in love with the hot rod class but I think I understand it. It also gives guys who still own the tricked out John Langley or other fine custom ARA Sporter class rifles from previous years a place to compete with them as well as other elite rifles. I have some nice Annies and 52's that while bone stock can also compete there. I wish there was a class for bone stock elite rifles like the Super Match or the VuDoo, etc without the distraction of custom rifles to muddy the water but that is OK. We all shoot the same card in the same conditions.

Everything that I do for fun involves some form of competition. Shooting is just one of them. I have been here on the hide for many years. I like being different and my 1st post on this thread was only to ask if there might someday be a new competitive American rifle option available compete in the ARA factory class to replace my little Remington? Carry on lads.

Irish

 

[RAVAGE88]

"The Factory Class was created to draw new shooters into BR"

I am testimony to the ARA Factory class working. But, it is still not drawing loads of shooters. Other than attempting to shoot a couple of unlimited matches with my old Pre-A Win 52 a few years ago, I had never shot BR until this year. We shoot a fun shoot at our club where we play with sporter rifles at night each week and I like holding and firing my rifle as opposed to the one piece rest used in ARA unlimited. I am not an unexperienced competitor having shot IPSC, 3-gun and NRL-22, NRA Hi-Power, college rifle team, etc, in the past. My earlier question to VuDoo was only if their was interest in also making a entry level product someday to compliment the already stunning V22 rifles?

I too shot Ivan's inaugural BP150 match in Somerset and had a great time hanging out with the Pappas Ladies, Glen Spencer, Todd Wooten and Norm and Larry to name a few. I shot a newly acquired, untested, bone stock Win 52 with a antique Fecker 10x scope, It was like bringing a knife to a gun fight and I was not at the top of the score sheet, lol. But I loved the target and the people. I did not know what a big deal the match was going to be or I might have brought a different rifle, lol. Since that time, we have shot the BP150 tgt in an unsanctioned fun shoot at our local club and our club is interested in hosting a sanctioned match sometime in the future. I also shot the ARA Factory Nationals in St Louis since I was making a full season of that class this year, had a great time and shot pretty good I think all considered. I really don't want to move into unlimited for personal reasons. It feels too much like artillery practice to me with dialing up 2 deg elevation and right 1 degree of windage and then sitting back to fire. It just don't do anything for me. But that is not a criticism, to each his own. What Ivan is doing is good, and it is different. I am not totally in love with the hot rod class but I think I understand it. It also gives guys who still own the tricked out John Langley or other fine custom ARA Sporter class rifles from previous years a place to compete with them as well as other elite rifles. I have some nice Annies and 52's that while bone stock can also compete there. I wish there was a class for bone stock elite rifles like the Super Match or the VuDoo, etc without the distraction of custom rifles to muddy the water but that is OK. We all shoot the same card in the same conditions.

Everything that I do for fun involves some form of competition. Shooting is just one of them. I have been here on the hide for many years. I like being different and my 1st post on this thread was only to ask if there might someday be a new competitive American rifle option available compete in the ARA factory class to replace my little Remington? Carry on lads.

Irish

Thanks Irish, it was great to meet you there and glad you enjoyed the match.

MB

 

[RAVAGE88]

From here, I'd like to re-iterate the point that @Dthomas3523 made in the post above. Every thread on every forum that has anything to do with the V-22S has been driven off topic and kept that way and now it has happened here, which is unusual. So, let's keep posts relative to the actual topic and keep in mind that PM's and the ability to start a new thread about something different is the best alternative as we go forward.

Thanks,
MB

 

[JG26_Irish]

Thanks Irish, it was great to meet you there and glad you enjoyed the match.

MB

Copy that. It was fun talking to you and all of the shooters and it was fun watching Colton making many of us look bad with his V22 )
As a fellow engineer, I wish we had more time to talk about technical stuff like barrel harmonics and chamber sizing but we were all busy with a match and I try to remain focused when I am shooting and too many distractions can be an issue. It pleases me to no end to see an American gun maker who is making a truly outstanding product like the V22. I will have one at some point. Just still trying to figure out what it will look like. Keep up the great work!

P.S. Challenge to all of the Unlimited shooters out here on the hide. Take some time and set up a 50y tgt with six bulls on it and shoot a 6x5 with your unlimited match rifle and post it to the 6x5 challenge thread. I want to see what a true custom match rifle can do shooting groups on a calm morning. I suspect it will be in the 1's but still want to know. Shooting is a game of many variables and the ammo is still a big part of that. It is hard to shoot 30 perfect shots.

 

[Tim7139]

Not to stir the pot in any way, but this statement is one of the biggest reasons I had so many asking me to design and make an action. DiOrio doesn’t and won’t make many either, and collectively, what has been available works pretty well in a limited scope, but for many, doesn’t provide what other shooters are looking for. Aside from that, DiOrio won’t step outside what they’re, questionably, led to do. Not taking anything away from anyone, just factually stating what others, like Jerry, have publicly proclaimed.

The part that’s baffling to me is, as I pour over what’s been stated publicly over a long period of time and considering the info that makes it’s way to me that was verbally spoken, why all the rhetorical chest pounding? Why all the backhanded compliments and pedantic, condescending questioning about rules, etc? It’s all BS, especially when wishes of “luck” aren’t truly sincere. At any rate, through all this, it hasn’t been difficult to see where the disingenuous element resides. So, if you’re going to be genuine in approach and truly support something other than your own self-centered interests, feel welcome at all times to post in this thread or any other related threads. If you can’t find it within yourself to naturally represent what you say, don’t bother posting, as I’ll have it deleted and posting privileges in the thread revoked.

@Dthomas3523

MB

Well, to be honest, this is a bit confusing.
Your comment seems to suggest that either mfr mentioned has somehow left the BR specific market somehow less than served. I know of no long term lack of availability of either nor interested buyer not served, even with a bit of a time factor.....just saying.
Although, as you well know Mike, I have always stated more entries always a plus but this is a bit apples/oranges. Without knowing your exact potential customer, from what is out there it does seem a big demographic seems to be the guy that does not, will not wish to go completely traditional BR route by, principally , sourcing his own barrel with required fitment, which, unless mistaken is still going to be the major potential challange......only time will tell of course

 

[T_Hammer]

From here, I'd like to re-iterate the point that @Dthomas3523 made in the post above. Every thread on every forum that has anything to do with the V-22S has been driven off topic and kept that way and now it has happened here, which is unusual. So, let's keep posts relative to the actual topic and keep in mind that PM's and the ability to start a new thread about something different is the best alternative as we go forward.

Thanks,
MB

Mike this isn’t completely off topic for the Vs rifle forum, but there has been some talk about part being on back ordered and for Vs ? And we don’t have a shipping date yet .
Is there any truth to this that you can shared , just wanting to keep updated.

 

[RAVAGE88]

Mike this isn’t completely off topic for the Vs rifle forum, but there has been some talk about part being on back ordered and for Vs ? And we don’t have a shipping date yet . Is there any truth to this that you can shared , just wanting to keep updated.

Not off topic at all. There are two components that took longer to get through supply chain than anticipated but they're very much on track now and everything is moving forward.

MB

 

[T_Hammer]

Not off topic at all. There are two components that took longer to get through supply chain than anticipated but they're very much on track now and everything is moving forward.

MB

Thanks

 

[Rimfireshooter99]

Mike, can you give us an idea when you plan to ship the first V22s? We must be getting close?

Thx!

 

[ccollier]

Mike, can you give us an idea when you plan to ship the first V22s? We must be getting close?

Thx!

Would like to know this also.

Thanks

 

[rick137]

Copy that. It was fun talking to you and all of the shooters and it was fun watching Colton making many of us look bad with his V22 )
As a fellow engineer, I wish we had more time to talk about technical stuff like barrel harmonics and chamber sizing but we were all busy with a match and I try to remain focused when I am shooting and too many distractions can be an issue. It pleases me to no end to see an American gun maker who is making a truly outstanding product like the V22. I will have one at some point. Just still trying to figure out what it will look like. Keep up the great work!

P.S. Challenge to all of the Unlimited shooters out here on the hide. Take some time and set up a 50y tgt with six bulls on it and shoot a 6x5 with your unlimited match rifle and post it to the 6x5 challenge thread. I want to see what a true custom match rifle can do shooting groups on a calm morning. I suspect it will be in the 1's but still want to know. Shooting is a game of many variables and the ammo is still a big part of that. It is hard to shoot 30 perfect shots.

@JG26_Irish:

I presume said UBR shooters would use a tuner and one-piece mechanical rest. Would be interesting. Coming from the other side what about SH shooters also using a tuner and a one-piece mechanical rest with their rigs. Would also be interesting. For example, @orkan shot a 50 yd 6 x 5 average of 0.128"/0.294MOA running a tuner and bipod/bag for support.

 

[Rimfireshooter99]

rick137, good suggestion. I would like to see a good bipod shooter shoot an ARA target @50 using the UBR bulls, score per the rules of the match, to compare with UBR shooter scores. This crossover concept works both ways and the data would be interesting to review. I bet the new Vudoo V22s would do well at both!

Irish scored higher than the UBR rifles in the National ARA tournament, but the FR class uses a larger bullseye than the UBR, so it would be cool to see a 6x5 vs a UBR ARA target scoring on multiple rifles and shooters for comparison.

 

[RAVAGE88]

@JG26_Irish:

I presume said UBR shooters would use a tuner and one-piece mechanical rest. Would be interesting. Coming from the other side what about SH shooters also using a tuner and a one-piece mechanical rest with their rigs. Would also be interesting. For example, @orkan shot a 50 yd 6 x 5 average of 0.128"/0.294MOA running a tuner and bipod/bag for support.

This would be cool and I'll give it a go as I recently got my hands on a SEB front rest, but it's still in the crate. @orkan shoots far better than many, so it would be good to see others put their gear/shooting to the test in the same way.

MB

 

[RAVAGE88]

Copy that. It was fun talking to you and all of the shooters and it was fun watching Colton making many of us look bad with his V22 )
As a fellow engineer, I wish we had more time to talk about technical stuff like barrel harmonics and chamber sizing but we were all busy with a match and I try to remain focused when I am shooting and too many distractions can be an issue. It pleases me to no end to see an American gun maker who is making a truly outstanding product like the V22. I will have one at some point. Just still trying to figure out what it will look like. Keep up the great work!

P.S. Challenge to all of the Unlimited shooters out here on the hide. Take some time and set up a 50y tgt with six bulls on it and shoot a 6x5 with your unlimited match rifle and post it to the 6x5 challenge thread. I want to see what a true custom match rifle can do shooting groups on a calm morning. I suspect it will be in the 1's but still want to know. Shooting is a game of many variables and the ammo is still a big part of that. It is hard to shoot 30 perfect shots.

I enjoyed scoping out that Win52....you, by far, had the coolest rifle at the match. I appreciate the words and maybe we can catch up soon on the other stuff....

MB

 

[AMTGMC]

@JG26_Irish:

I presume said UBR shooters would use a tuner and one-piece mechanical rest. Would be interesting. Coming from the other side what about SH shooters also using a tuner and a one-piece mechanical rest with their rigs. Would also be interesting. For example, @orkan shot a 50 yd 6 x 5 average of 0.128"/0.294MOA running a tuner and bipod/bag for support.

I would also like to see some examples of one piece / two piece rests vs bipod rear bag accuracy. I have been shooting my V22 in local unlimited BR class for about a year now just learning and playing. 3 different clubs shooting different targets.


These are all 50yd targets shot with bipod and rear bag, would be nice to know how many points are lost on average without a rest. A couple clubs do 100 and 200yd shoots which I like better.
Just waiting on the V22s and some data on the fast twist barrel and may step up.

 

[rick137]

Forgot to mention there are some serious braggin' rights on the line.

 

[Tim7139]

I would also like to see some examples of one piece / two piece rests vs bipod rear bag accuracy. I have been shooting my V22 in local unlimited BR class for about a year now just learning and playing. 3 different clubs shooting different targets.

View attachment 7422253View attachment 7422254View attachment 7422255
These are all 50yd targets shot with bipod and rear bag, would be nice to know how many points are lost on average without a rest. A couple clubs do 100 and 200yd shoots which I like better.
Just waiting on the V22s and some data on the fast twist barrel and may step up.

With your targets , hard to tell, usually you are going to get elevation like the IR target, but hell, could be easily condition.
That said, there are very few that shoot any kind of dedicated BR with other than a quality 2 pc/1 pc rest . The biggest liability with your deal is you, basically have to become a “bag squeezer” and that is extremely tough to do without error. The point difference using a 1 pc is negligible among better shooters that shoot, know how to set up a quality 2 pc rig, biggest benefit, reducing potential gun handling error which very good shooters rarely make anyway.

Bottom line, you spent $ on a quality gun....you should invest in a decent rest, bag setup unless you plan on a lot of UNL/ARA shooting.

 

[shutr2]

I would also like to see some examples of one piece / two piece rests vs bipod rear bag accuracy. I have been shooting my V22 in local unlimited BR class for about a year now just learning and playing. 3 different clubs shooting different targets.

View attachment 7422253View attachment 7422254View attachment 7422255
These are all 50yd targets shot with bipod and rear bag, would be nice to know how many points are lost on average without a rest. A couple clubs do 100 and 200yd shoots which I like better.
Just waiting on the V22s and some data on the fast twist barrel and may step up.

You mention that some clubs are going to 100yd shoots. What target are they using for those matches? What scores are winning?

 

[AMTGMC]

You mention that some clubs are going to 100yd shoots. What target are they using for those matches? What scores are winning?

I just started shooting at this club and this was the first time shooting this target last month. 2 cards were shot 5 shots at each of the bulls. 489 was first, 478 second. I finished in fourth with a 471 and last was a 449. 474 won the precision target class and a 461 won the ARA factory class. Get another crack at it in 2 weeks.

 

[4Certain]

You mention that some clubs are going to 100yd shoots. What target are they using for those matches? What scores are winning?

Shutr2, we shoot the "Mini Palma" at 100 yards. Three Targets. 15 shots per target. 30 minutes max. The last two matches were won by, 449/34x. and 450/31x.
Targets we use are pasted below. https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/mini-palma-targets.7020160/

 

[Tim7139]

This would be cool and I'll give it a go as I recently got my hands on a SEB front rest, but it's still in the crate. @orkan shoots far better than many, so it would be good to see others put their gear/shooting to the test in the same way.

MB

Great rest, after years shooting on a Farley went to a SEB last year, now @my club I’m surrounded by guys that sprung for Lenzi’s.

If it still has the SEB , hard/3 piece bag setup, ditch it.....it is too damn hard IMHO. Get the Edgewood that fits and don’t overfill it......far more forgiving.
Rear bag is very important, Edgewood is good, Lenzi is the best. Get’em from PMA tool.

 

[RAVAGE88]

Great rest, after years shooting on a Farley went to a SEB last year, now @my club I’m surrounded by guys that sprung for Lenzi’s.

If it still has the SEB , hard/3 piece bag setup, ditch it.....it is too damn hard IMHO. Get the Edgewood that fits and don’t overfill it......far more forgiving.
Rear bag is very important, Edgewood is good, Lenzi is the best. Get’em from PMA tool.

Thanks Tim, I finally took it out of the crate today....it's INCREDIBLY well made. I'll take a look around for those bags, not even sure I know which box my old one is in, I bought it through Sinclair about 12 years ago.

MB

 

[AUMan]

Would like to know this also.

Thanks

Mike, Add me to those that want to know this.

 

[Hoser]

Thanks Tim, I finally took it out of the crate today....it's INCREDIBLY well made.

I have an old Farley Co-Ax rest that I use now and again. But the SEB rests are leaps and bounds better.

So many toys, so little time.

 

[Tim7139]

Thanks Tim, I finally took it out of the crate today....it's INCREDIBLY well made. I'll take a look around for those bags, not even sure I know which box my old one is in, I bought it through Sinclair about 12 years ago.

MB

Be aware, traditional front bags will not work.
The ones required slide into the top grooves once you remove a side plate & engage the bottom recess’ . Pull off the side plate and all will be clear.

 

[Travelor]

Great information on rests, BUT this thread is supposed to be about the rifle, NOT the rests.