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Homemade Induction Annealer

I buzzed right by that the board is 36v max. My bad.

The supply is going to output whatever the draw of the system is. It won't autmatically just output 27A and fry the board. You will have some amount of idle current (no brass in the coil) and the load will increase based on the size, material, and location of whatever is put inside of the coil. If you have an ammeter inline in your setup you can probably mitigate issues by inserting brass less and creeping up to more depth and stopping shy of 20A. I don't know how much heat this will generate when approaching the limits of the board, but it should be possible.

My setup is done how hdmunger described, with a 100A relay between my supply and ZVS board. It is controlled by a timed relay on a completely separate 12v supply. It doesn't have to be done this way as you have seen several versions working with other control types.
 
Its hard to tell from the pics you show, but something else that jumped out at me as a possibility is the timer unit you are using...it looks like it is switching the full output of the power supply into the ZVS board. I don't know what the specs are on the timer, but it may be limiting the throughput to the ZVS is some way and if you upgrade to a larger supply the problem may increase. Using the timer to trigger a beefier relay with a 12 volt circuit may help if that is the case (I assume some of your circuits, fan pump etc., are 12 volt...)

A basic circuit diagram (hand drawn or in Paint) would help diagnosing problem (include specs for each component you used). (here is an example from my build - https://drive.google.com/open?id=16gGj4jPtPGdh--QO44VOZwWJYbIx4TM6)

Fair point... its only rated at 15a 400w

 
My board is only rated to 36v. I didn't notice that when I ordered or I would have gone with a 48v board.

So I'm thinking about staying with a 24v supply since the 36v supplies seem to be limited to either a 360w, 500w, or a 1kw unit. The 1kw is 27a so I think thats going to be a problem? I honestly don't know what I need to watch for. I have a .6 inch ID coil of 1/8, 9 wraps.

So with a 36v 20a 1kw board, I'm thinking I'll go with a 36v 13.8a 500w supply. Its 140w more than my current supply at +3.8a. Or a 24v supply 20a at 500w. Not sure though. Anyone have any insight?

If you are limited to 36v and 1000w, get a power supply that maxes out all of the metrics that you can - ie 36V 20A which would be in the 720 watt range. (double check the specs on the ZVS board, I would think that they would all be in the normal relation to each other - 36V x 20A = 720W...)
 
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I buzzed right by that the board is 36v max. My bad.

The supply is going to output whatever the draw of the system is. It won't autmatically just output 27A and fry the board. You will have some amount of idle current (no brass in the coil) and the load will increase based on the size, material, and location of whatever is put inside of the coil. If you have an ammeter inline in your setup you can probably mitigate issues by inserting brass less and creeping up to more depth and stopping shy of 20A. I don't know how much heat this will generate when approaching the limits of the board, but it should be possible.

My setup is done how hdmunger described, with a 100A relay between my supply and ZVS board. It is controlled by a timed relay on a completely separate 12v supply. It doesn't have to be done this way as you have seen several versions working with other control types.

I'll check into that. Right now the only thing I'll gain from changing out relays and switches and stuff is a little less time in the coil for my brass... which, isn't that big a deal to me, so I may leave it as is for a while.
 
Wanted to share an updated parts list for the "GinaErick" build if anyone wants to go that route. This is a copy of my post on that thread but figured it fits here as well.

Total build price around 650, give or take. The parts list totals around 600 but you'll need misc screws and boards (if building a case) from a local shop in addition to the shipping for the items in the list. I believe the only thing not readily available through my parts list is the shelf and trap door; which were 3D printed with PETG based on the previously shared shelf/door files. For anyone going this route - I've not had any problems with heat from the brass on the printed parts.

I'm thrilled with the results and am now working to find the ideal settings for my various brass. I've attached a couple images and here is a short video link for anyone curious.

GinaErick Annealer.jpg
GinaErick Annealer_2.jpg
 

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If I was to wire in a relay to get more Watts and Amps to the board... would this be an appropriate unit?


It has the voltage and current rating needed so it should work. I purchased one that was rated for 100A with a 12v solenoid and it works well and has a nice audible click during cycle on/off.

Somewhere someone mentioned that a 2 pole relay would be a better option as it can cut both + and - to the board. I haven't had any problems this far with a single pole breaking the +. YMMV.
 
It has the voltage and current rating needed so it should work. I purchased one that was rated for 100A with a 12v solenoid and it works well and has a nice audible click during cycle on/off.

Somewhere someone mentioned that a 2 pole relay would be a better option as it can cut both + and - to the board. I haven't had any problems this far with a single pole breaking the +. YMMV.

I'm thinking... if I get a 2 pack, I was thinking i could wire one into each pole.

I'm kinda stuck on the actual electrical side of this too though. Like, if I have a 36v 20a 1000w board, if I use a 36v 22a 800w power supply, is that going to kill the ZVS board? I always hate electrical. I always had someone do wiring in my cars. I can build a beastly stroker motor, but I never got into electrical
 
It won't outright kill it. If you put something too large in the coil then the supply has enough current to overload and fry the ZVS board. That is why I mentioned an ammeter previously if you wanted to oversize the power supply. Just remember, the more metal you stick in the coil, the higher the current is going to climb, up until the point of board failure since the power supply has more possible output than the board can handle.

hdmunger mentioned earlier, 36v 20a is not 1000w, but only 720w. I think the board has a misprint in the specs somewhere.
 
It won't outright kill it. If you put something too large in the coil then the supply has enough current to overload and fry the ZVS board. That is why I mentioned an ammeter previously if you wanted to oversize the power supply. Just remember, the more metal you stick in the coil, the higher the current is going to climb, up until the point of board failure since the power supply has more possible output than the board can handle.

hdmunger mentioned earlier, 36v 20a is not 1000w, but only 720w. I think the board has a misprint in the specs somewhere.

Yea, im not sure how much I trust the specs on all this stuff anyway.

I swapped my older 24v 15a 360w power supply to see if there was a difference. So actually, the way I had it wired, the 24v supply melted a case in the same time the 36v 10a 360w supply annealed. It also didn't bog down. According to my buck converter (again not 100% trusting of this stuff) the 24v supply was running cost to 28v just issue and 24v when I hit the button to anneal. So unless, the 36v unit is faulty, the higher amps seems to be putting more energy through the coil and getting it hotter? Not sure if the 36v is faulty or whatever, as that could also be the correct explanation, but I returned it to Amazon.

I'm probably staying with my current setup using the 24v 15a 360w supply. It does what I need it to do for now.

Thanks for the input.
 
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I will post pictures once I have everything bolted down but I have the 1/8” water cooled version up and running. The pump/reservoir, heat exchanger/80 mm fan, and DC to DC board were all obtained from Amazon. I had to get the 1/8” fittings from McMaster but they arrived in a day.

The small ID of the 1/8” tube does not allow for great flow rate but it is performing very very well even without the heat exchanger fan running.

I ran a 30 second cycle (no fan) and the coil was maybe a few degrees above ambient. Had I done that with the 8 AWG version it would be way too hot to touch. I could feel the return line warming up as it ran. My board is a bit busy now but that’s ok. It’s functioning flawlessly. Once I get everything locked down I’ll change the water to distilled and toss in a dash of water wetter.

Tim
Do you still know what fittings from McMaster?
 
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I’ll begin by saying my knowledge on this stuff is pretty basic but I had an idea and figured you might be able to tell me if this is possible. I know that in tempering steel some use the loss of magnetic properties as a sign of reaching the right temperature. I also know that as metals reach a certain temp in the coil, the amperage drops (same reason?). So my question is, if this is right, is there a way to quantifiably measure this changeover point accurately enough to find ideal time for annealing cases? I was thinking maybe this is what AMP might be doing with AZTEC? Or am I way off?
 
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$100 DIY Induction annealer... Some assembly required.
Have you tried this? Seems reasonable been debating whether or not I want to build one or just buy an annie
 
Yes. I have been through a variety of iterations myself. The Component list in the Accurate Reloading link above will get the job done. You can forego the pump if you just plumb in a needle valve off a garage/kitchen sink. High current DC is probably the hardest part. IME "magnum" cases take the most current, but still less than 800w peak w/ a 5/8" ID coil (24-30v).

This one's mine, after having reverse-engineered the Chinrese boards, reduced footprint, substituted some components for "name brand" high-frequency parts and hand-winding the toroids, it's worked for a few thousand cases so far. As of yet, I haven't felt the need to automate the process. I can anneal ~400 .223 Rem cases in 30 minutes or less. I seem to have the attention span to complete that task manually. Mark-1 eyeball's pretty well calibrated. 🤷‍♂️

 
I started on an induction annealer last week. I made an automatic gas fired one about 5 years ago which has done the job brilliantly but these seem like a much more accurate way to do it, plus it's an interesting project to make. I started with an MGNZ Arduino control board which is really well thought out and simple to wire up. It took about 6 weeks for all the electronic bits and pieces to arrive and I've got a day or so in it putting it together to this point. There are some parts to machine up in the next week or so for the drop gate and case feeder to make it automatic but testing it on the bench is promising, about 4 seconds for a 223 case. The software is adjustable in .1 second increments and it has over temperature and over current protection as well. Some photos of it to this point below, still a work in progress but getting close to done.
 

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Gtar, that is very neat construction.

So your Arduino board is performing the timing control too ?

I use a microbit as a controller and added a "set timer" button, the idea being to press the button as soon as a test case reaches a dull red. The microbit records the time and uses it to cook the others, less a small constant amount to allow for my reaction time between seeing the red glow and hitting the button.

Got to be careful with these induction annealers, or we risk having so much fun with them, there will be no time left to shoot !
 
Here are the primary components...

ZVS Board ($36.62) - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01C70G7Y8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

5-36V Timer/Relay Board ($12.99) - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V24WJ4S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

24V/15A Power Supply ($21.99) - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0196PXMTU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Momentary Switch ($8.99) - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XSBYNM7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

750F Tempilaq ($30.49) - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PL7SEUU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Copper Wire ($17.87) - https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-25-ft-8-Gauge-Soft-drawn-Copper-Bare-Wire-By-the-Roll/50372842

Cord for power supply - Lowes carries a wall plug cord that is has the L/N/GND wires exposed. Just go to where they sell extension cords and you will find it.

Feel free to ask questions. The coil winding is key. My coil is 10 turns with an ID of 15-16mm. I wouldn't go more than 20mm if you adhere to the setup above. If you aren't sure your coil dimensions/turns will work message me and I can tell you if it will work acceptably. I will need to know coil wire diameter, coil turns, and ID. The opening of the case mouth is positioned to be right about mid way in the coil.

Other timer boards can be used but make sure it supports the voltage/current needs. The timer board I used is using two N-channel FETs in parallel rather than traditional relays. It is working very well. Other ZVS boards can be used as well but you will have to take note of how much capacitance the board has when deciding the coil specs. I'm an EE btw so this project was right up my alley.

Quick tip on turning the coil with that particular wire... use a wooden dowel or similar and turn the coil as tight as possible. Once it is turned take 5-6 business cards and slide them through the coil windings. This will then give you uniform spacing between the coils. Just make sure none of the coils touch and you will be fine. At the mounting ends of the coil I just soldered the 8 AWG wire into the center of a couple pieces of 1/4" copper tubing. This allowed the coil to mount as intended with this particular ZVS board.

If you opt to mimic the wooden block approach the proper drill bit size for 223 is 13/32". You want just enough clearance that the case will drop freely but not tilt excessively. I made the base board hole under that 1/2". Everyone will have their own approaches but just make sure you dimension the case support such that the case mouth opening is about mid way in the coil.

Tim
Will this parts list still work if I go to a 48v, 1000W power supply? I’m very far from being an EE, but interested in moving away from a flame annealer.
 
Gtar, that is very neat construction.

So your Arduino board is performing the timing control too ?

I use a microbit as a controller and added a "set timer" button, the idea being to press the button as soon as a test case reaches a dull red. The microbit records the time and uses it to cook the others, less a small constant amount to allow for my reaction time between seeing the red glow and hitting the button.

Got to be careful with these induction annealers, or we risk having so much fun with them, there will be no time left to shoot !
Yep, the timing is adjustable in 0.1 second increments. The bottom button adjusts it, it starts at 2 seconds and each press increases it by 0.1, a long hold resets it back to 2 seconds.

I'm just printing off the case feeder, it's got a small servo motor running it. Initially it'll use a proximity sensor and rotate the feeder drum when there's no case in the coil. The plan longer term is to have it drop a case immediately after the drop gate opens and the previous one drops out. The motor is a bit big for the power the board can supply so it's a work in progress but I'm sure it will work eventually. Currently it'll have a "V" hopper that I need to load, eventually it'll have a proper case feeder that I can just pour a bunch of cases into and it'll collate and drop them when needed. My printer only has a 150mm square bed so I've made it in a few pieces that screw together, it should hold a heap of cases though.
case_feeder v15.jpg
 
Did you make that case drum large enough for larger cases and is the gray part replaceable for different sized cases?

The version I made is not nearly as slick as your design, but it will fit belted magnums and 308 sized cases as designed with a little insert for the bottom of the case slot to allow for 223 sized cases (raises them up a little so that 2 cases don't try to share the slot). The feed cycle for it is also triggered by the signal for the drop solenoid.
 
The grey part swaps out for different sized cases. I borrowed that design from the same bloke who makes the control board. It's worth a look at his website, he has a full parts list for the annealer as well as the control board and how to wire it all up. https://www.mgnz-makes.com/
 
I got the case feeder printed up and dummied it together to see if it drops the cases properly. All seems good to this point testing with 223, 6BR, Creedmoor and SAUM cases. I'll get the servo motor mounted up this weekend and it looks like I'll be able to run it from the Arduino board so it cycles one case through each cycle so it's fully automatic. I also wound up a new coil with some proper fittings rather than soldered together so I can change it if I need to.

124861003_1258112424550749_8912395178849975073_n.jpg
 
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Over the last couple of days I put together an induction annealer setup. All components minus the coil were sourced from Amazon. I turned the coil myself from solid copper wire to ensure proper inductance and distance to the case. The power supply is 24V/15A. Switching frequency of the induction coil is ~120 kHz. The coil supplied with the ZVS unit was far too large in diameter and would not sufficiently heat the brass with the 24V/15A supply. Proper coil sizing is key. I have not found a need for any additional cooling. The PCB and components are barely getting warm.

The 1/8" rod under the coil is the release mechanism to allow the case to drop. I am contemplating adding a push/pull solenoid to automate the drop at the end of the cycle but at my processing rate it isn't necessary.

Using 750F Tempilaq as an indicator my run time for a .223 case is 3.4 seconds. A tenth of a second can make a significant difference. The picture showing both cases is only a delta of 0.2 seconds. A run time of just 7.5 seconds will have the brass glowing red hot as seen in the pic. That is far too hot for annealing but I provided the pic to illustrate that it doesn't take long to over anneal. Average power consumption during a cycle with the current setup is ~260W. With a different power supply and additional cooling the system can run to 1000W.

This is a sub $100 build and the results are consistent and repeatable.

Tim
I am considering duplicating this build as it seems fairly straight forward and inexpensive. Since you have had this setup for a year now, do you have any further learnings you can share?
 
I am thinking of getting Annie Induction Annealer, but you'all put a bug in my ear to build my own maybe.
If you're at all handy and like these types of projects I'd recommend it. I just did about 200 cases this morning and it works great. I like the lack of flame. That said I'm probably half way to the price of an AMP in my build.
 
That said I'm probably half way to the price of an AMP in my build.

Halfway to an amp puts me at or above a water cooled annie bundle... And I'm not to be trusted around wiring.

Are there any major drawbacks to the annie unit that can be over come with the home build?
 
progress so far,
i should have ordered stuff locally, not sure when i can expect stuff from china to arrive to go much further d'oh
thanks TSerrao, hope you dont mind that i have used your design principal for my project.



Did you ever take this into 'production'? I have ordered all parts to create this version but still looking for something to 'eject' the case after it's done. I have a 3d printer would be great of you could share what you have made
 
Halfway to an amp puts me at or above a water cooled annie bundle... And I'm not to be trusted around wiring.

Are there any major drawbacks to the annie unit that can be over come with the home build?
Sorry, my mistake. I was thinking of a flame based annealer. I'm not familiar with the annie induction.


Did you ever take this into 'production'? I have ordered all parts to create this version but still looking for something to 'eject' the case after it's done. I have a 3d printer would be great of you could share what you have made
Are you asking on the physical part or the Arduino (or similar controller) setup for this? I didn't do an Arduino style but I did 3d print the shelf and trip door do for mine above. It drops the brass out when the timer finishes, pretty easy setup.
 
Are you asking on the physical part or the Arduino (or similar controller) setup for this? I didn't do an Arduino style but I did 3d print the shelf and trip door do for mine above. It drops the brass out when the timer finishes, pretty easy setup.

Sorry, I'm talking about the 3d printed trapdoor. Was hoping you had some more info/details on this and maybe a STL file.
 
Sorry, I'm talking about the 3d printed trapdoor. Was hoping you had some more info/details on this and maybe a STL file.


Sure thing. I've attached a zip file containing the shelf and trap door pictured below. I cant take credit, the original author was "SGK" on Accurate Shooter.

It takes a little finagling to get it situated just right but I've had zero problems.

1605393038347.png
 

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Sure thing. I've attached a zip file containing the shelf and trap door pictured below. I cant take credit, the original author was "SGK" on Accurate Shooter.

It takes a little finagling to get it situated just right but I've had zero problems.

View attachment 7471913
Excellent!

Is this normal PLA or did you use something else?

When is the trapdoor activated? Is this handled by the timer or did you program something else to do this?
 
Excellent!

Is this normal PLA or did you use something else?

When is the trapdoor activated? Is this handled by the timer or did you program something else to do this?
Printed with PETG, I was a little concerned on temperature traveling down the case into the plastic, but it's such a quick process the plastic doesn't have contact with the brass long enough to get warm.

The sestos timer I used has something like 4 setpoints that run in a continuous loop, each with an output. So I just used the first for the actual induction heat, then a .5 second for door open, then a 5 second delay (to let me feed next case), then back to the beginning.
 
Printed with PETG, I was a little concerned on temperature traveling down the case into the plastic, but it's such a quick process the plastic doesn't have contact with the brass long enough to get warm.

The sestos timer I used has something like 4 setpoints that run in a continuous loop, each with an output. So I just used the first for the actual induction heat, then a .5 second for door open, then a 5 second delay (to let me feed next case), then back to the beginning.

Ah, now I get why some builds use this timer! Sorry for all the Q's but could you provide me link with the version of this sestor timer you are using? There are quiet a few versions of this
 
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As a side note, my full build sheet and some pics are up at post 255 of this thread.

Cool. missed that!

How about the L shaped pieces of steel (?) that you used for mounting the 3d printed shelf to the case? I guess you made it to allow for the shelf to move up and down depending on the brass. What did you use for it? Looks like 8-10mm steel but bending that 90 degrees is not easy...
 
Did anyone already made a build like this one? due to the ZVS board used it's a bit simpler (less parts needed but still water cooled).

It's using 24v vs 48v and was thinking of building it with the trapdoor concept of PKT1199. Would you expect any major drawbacks with this version?
 
Cool. missed that!

How about the L shaped pieces of steel (?) that you used for mounting the 3d printed shelf to the case? I guess you made it to allow for the shelf to move up and down depending on the brass. What did you use for it? Looks like 8-10mm steel but bending that 90 degrees is not easy...
Those are cabinet drawer handles that have had one side cut off. And you're correct, can slide the platform on them for varying brass sizes.
 
Did anyone already made a build like this one? due to the ZVS board used it's a bit simpler (less parts needed but still water cooled).

It's using 24v vs 48v and was thinking of building it with the trapdoor concept of PKT1199. Would you expect any major drawbacks with this version?

if you anneal something small (e.g. .223 Rem) with the Accurate Reloading's DIY build suggested coil ID at 48v you risk cooking the hell out of the brass. A small, tight coil will concentrate the EM field. Most other designs you see have a much larger ID coil with more turns, with a lower field density that's compensated for by using higher voltage. FWIW I anneal WSM brass at 30v in a small coil.
 
if you anneal something small (e.g. .223 Rem) with the Accurate Reloading's DIY build suggested coil ID at 48v you risk cooking the hell out of the brass. A small, tight coil will concentrate the EM field. Most other designs you see have a much larger ID coil with more turns, with a lower field density that's compensated for by using higher voltage. FWIW I anneal WSM brass at 30v in a small coil.

I have now ordered a 24v version + 720/30a 24v powersupply. based on this build. The powersupply is driving the cost and can still be cancelled if needed.

I will be annealing 6.5 creedmoor, .308 win and .300 norma magnum.

Is this still the way to go for these calibers or should I switch to a 48v (or other) setup?

p.s. I found this later on (and here). They guy has made a programmable board that makes some stuff much easier. His setup also use 42v but will also work in 24v setups according to him.
 
I have now ordered a 24v version + 720/30a 24v powersupply. based on this build. The powersupply is driving the cost and can still be cancelled if needed.

I will be annealing 6.5 creedmoor, .308 win and .300 norma magnum.

Is this still the way to go for these calibers or should I switch to a 48v (or other) setup?

p.s. I found this later on (and here). They guy has made a programmable board that makes some stuff much easier. His setup also use 42v but will also work in 24v setups according to him.
Hi, That is my website and NZHS forum post. Happy to answer any questions.

Mark