Homemade Induction Annealer

morganlamprecht

Sergeant
Belligerents
Nov 5, 2013
1,438
1,525
219
How are you satisfied with AMP? Can you post picture of case done with an AMP? I am looking into buying one too. Are you annealing after each firing?
its solid, really simple to use...no messing with flame size/position i got tired of with a giraud, just unscrew a bushing an run the analyze function for new/different brass...i do it after each firing, unless im in a hurry for some blasting ammo...it takes 15-20min at a casual pace to do 100 pcs

i can post a picture later if i remember, but the looks of the brass wont really mean much...it all looks different depending on brand, how clean it is, etc...some of it shows heavy marks and some you can barely tell its done
 

igor79

Private
Minuteman
Jun 4, 2020
3
2
6
I read somewhere that analyze function is giving different codes for same lot of the brass. Did you try to analyze few cases from the same lot? I believe if your cases from the same lot are not uniformed/have same wall thickness it will give you issue described above.

I was trying to understand how AMP Analyze function works. From the AMP YouTube Video called "how its made", you can see that they are using ferrite core (flux concentrator) wrapped with litz wire coil, which is then connected to the capacitor bank, and capacitor bank to the main PCB. There is no any measuring device on the core expect 90deg C thermocouple to protect device of overheating. I assume that they use thermocouple as a feedback signal for the fan PID controller. Another reason is specific cartridge code what you are entering before analyze function. Therefore, based of the current drawn/frequency/voltage, AMP is selecting already predefined setting from the memory and giving you an number to use.

I apologize if my English is not perfect, it is not my first language.
 
  • Like
Reactions: spife7980

morganlamprecht

Sergeant
Belligerents
Nov 5, 2013
1,438
1,525
219
all the brass of the same brand/lots looks similar...its brand vs brand that are different, like lake city shows heavy marks, while hornady barely shows anything

ive only annealed a few types so far...but what i found was...

hornady 6creed brass (all same lot)...i weighed 10-15 pcs, had a pretty big spread, i think like 5-6 grains...i took 3 of the mid range pcs and it gave me codes like 134, 135, and 136...so i used the middle...i should have done a heavy piece and light piece, but i was loading up 20 rounds to go shoot, and didnt think about it at the time

lake city 308 (same lot)...same as above, but spread was smaller, like 2-3 grains iirc, i checked 3 pcs and got 155, 155, and 156...so i used 155

starline 223 (same lot)...did similar, spread was pretty small, i think it was all less than 2 grains...i checked 2 cases and got the same number, so i used that

above codes arent the actual number codes, just for examples...i cant remember them off the top of my head, theyre written down at home

id only expect the codes to be as consistent as the brass quality itself, but its still easier/more consistent than a flame and a roller imo...especially when changing out from magnums to 223 sized cases over time

i generally dont mix brass lots anyways, ive known that was bad practice for any consistency for a long time...the only thing i have mixed lot is some 308 Federal brass, but it is currently all loaded up with a generic 175 smk load i just use for random 308 stuff

i do have a bunch of lapua 223, 6.5creed, and 308...and some neck turned 6.5prc hornady, but all of that is loaded, as well, so i wont be able to mess with it until its shot up

all said, i dont think the amp is going to improve much of anything down range...i havent had any issues with how ive always loaded...it just makes it less hassle on my end for all the various stuff i reload...less fiddling, just push a button and go
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: spife7980

TSerrao

Private
Minuteman
Apr 30, 2020
18
5
6
progress so far,
i should have ordered stuff locally, not sure when i can expect stuff from china to arrive to go much further d'oh
thanks TSerrao, hope you dont mind that i have used your design principal for my project.

Hey, thanks OK buddy! We are here to help each other! ;)
I'm glad that was good for you! (y)
 

TSerrao

Private
Minuteman
Apr 30, 2020
18
5
6
H
Hello, why did you opt for double layer coil? How did you calculate required inductance/ capacitance for that coil to achieve resonant freq. (assuming 120-125kHz )?

Can you post your electrical drawing, maybe we can see something what is pulling that idle current?

There is a very good explanation on https://www.rmcybernetics.com/science/diy-devices/diy-induction-heater
Hi buddy. I'm not doing myself the whole pcb. I'm using ZVS1000, like most of the other guys.
I did double coil to decrease the height of my coil, to improve magnetic field concentration. The KHz is being calculated by normal math, considering 6 x 0.33 uF caps and an inductor. So, I'm just matching the inductance with the LC circuit, in order to work around the KHz desired. In my case, I was expecting to work @ 105 KHz. Not that high as you are trying. I understood that if you increase too much the ressonance frequency (according to what the board was designed to work at) you loose performance. So, I'm trying to keep as close as possible of the 95KHz (the frequency that I saw that would be the manufacter default)
 

TSerrao

Private
Minuteman
Apr 30, 2020
18
5
6
Looking forward to the result.
Bad news... the reason of almost reaching a perfect anealling was the power supply was providing less than 48V. Almost burnt.
But ok. I now bought another ZVS because I'm almost sure my problem is with that board.
It'll arrive till monday. So, as soon as I get it and test, I'll post my comments.
Hope now everything work properly! 🤦‍♂️
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bradv86

dadbot5000

Private
Minuteman
Jun 29, 2020
1
0
2
Over the last couple of days I put together an induction annealer setup. All components minus the coil were sourced from Amazon. I turned the coil myself from solid copper wire to ensure proper inductance and distance to the case. The power supply is 24V/15A. Switching frequency of the induction coil is ~120 kHz. The coil supplied with the ZVS unit was far too large in diameter and would not sufficiently heat the brass with the 24V/15A supply. Proper coil sizing is key. I have not found a need for any additional cooling. The PCB and components are barely getting warm.

The 1/8" rod under the coil is the release mechanism to allow the case to drop. I am contemplating adding a push/pull solenoid to automate the drop at the end of the cycle but at my processing rate it isn't necessary.

Using 750F Tempilaq as an indicator my run time for a .223 case is 3.4 seconds. A tenth of a second can make a significant difference. The picture showing both cases is only a delta of 0.2 seconds. A run time of just 7.5 seconds will have the brass glowing red hot as seen in the pic. That is far too hot for annealing but I provided the pic to illustrate that it doesn't take long to over anneal. Average power consumption during a cycle with the current setup is ~260W. With a different power supply and additional cooling the system can run to 1000W.

This is a sub $100 build and the results are consistent and repeatable.

Tim

Hi Tim,

Thank you very much for posting this. Do you have a wiring diagram? I just ordered the parts off amazon and I think I could figure it out, but I don't want to kill something that way.

Thanks,

Clint
 

Ryridesmotox

Hood rat
Belligerents
Mar 15, 2019
755
425
69
update on mine... i am not sure the ammo can was a spectacular idea. It seems to hold in too much heat the way I had it setup. I fried my first board. Admittedly I was probably abusing it a bit, got like 150 in and realized that when I dropped the brass in on 151, it didnt sizzle when it hit water. Started to diagnose and noticed the first pic below.

Ordered a new board from Amazon that has a fan built onto it. The fan only worked when the bird was energized, so I took the wires and attached them to my power supply directly, so I could have the fan on constantly. Then I got an old fan off a stereo tower setup my DAD had 30 years ago... put that on the top of the ammo can for now. Heat is not as big of a problem.

But I noticed that I was basically heat treating the steel of the can around the copper coil leads. Cut apart some old MSD plug wires and tried to insulate a bit. Doesn't seem to have helped much. All in all, I'll likely move to something that isn't steel in the near future.

20200629_112654.jpg

20200629_112704.jpg

20200629_112710.jpg
 

davere

Double Oh Negative
Belligerents
Jan 24, 2011
664
303
69
Central Texas
drperformanceshooting.com
But I noticed that I was basically heat treating the steel of the can around the copper coil leads. Cut apart some old MSD plug wires and tried to insulate a bit. Doesn't seem to have helped much. All in all, I'll likely move to something that isn't steel in the near future.
You may be inducing eddy currents in the can - and insulation won't change that. The can is pretty close to your coil, and the magnetic field coming off the coil could be losing power to the can. Do you have a current meter in-line, and can you tell how much current you're drawing with no case in the coil? Also, does your power supply do current limiting?
 

Ryridesmotox

Hood rat
Belligerents
Mar 15, 2019
755
425
69
You may be inducing eddy currents in the can - and insulation won't change that. The can is pretty close to your coil, and the magnetic field coming off the coil could be losing power to the can. Do you have a current meter in-line, and can you tell how much current you're drawing with no case in the coil? Also, does your power supply do current limiting?
I'm sure that's it exactly. I noticed the time required to anneal is higher than normal after I put it in the box. Im going to put it back on a board soon. The box was cool, but not a fantastic idea.
 

Bradv86

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
May 18, 2019
152
77
34
TX
I'm sure that's it exactly. I noticed the time required to anneal is higher than normal after I put it in the box. Im going to put it back on a board soon. The box was cool, but not a fantastic idea.
If you look at my build this is exactly the reason I cut the metal computer case side to a 1.5" outer frame and attached a wooden side panel to it. The metal around the coil pass through was getting hot from repeated annealing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ryridesmotox

davere

Double Oh Negative
Belligerents
Jan 24, 2011
664
303
69
Central Texas
drperformanceshooting.com
I'm sure that's it exactly. I noticed the time required to anneal is higher than normal after I put it in the box. Im going to put it back on a board soon. The box was cool, but not a fantastic idea.
For what it's worth, I just built my case out of wood. But like Bradv86 mentions, wood or plastic around the general area instead of metal should alleviate most or all of that issue.

Edit to add - also, I added heat sinks to the bottom of my induction board, under the capacitors (looks like you blew one or more caps). Those are the big heat generator on the board, and adding some extra cooling the board beneath them seems to have helped keep it cool (plus a fan blowing directly down on them).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ryridesmotox

Ryridesmotox

Hood rat
Belligerents
Mar 15, 2019
755
425
69
I'm building a little frame out of MDF and plywood. Have a big fan in the back to blow a bunch of air through the apparatus.

The wiring is a bit steam punk... it sucks. But it works. And the top isn't fastened down yet. Going to do that tomorrow

I'm done with my big run of annealing, so this thing won't need to be struck up for a while. But i grabbed a few pieces and got the time set. 6.5 seconds with a 24v power supply and Jag brass. The brass seems pretty thick. MEN NATO brass takes a second less to get to thr same temps. Dunno why.

20200629_213034.jpg
20200629_213045.jpg
20200629_213056.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: davere