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Lord help me for posting this in the Pit...

LuckyDuck

Major Hide Member
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Nov 4, 2020
    1,086
    4,303
    Pennsylvania
    But yep- I'm freaking out a little bit. A quick synopsis of the past 2 weeks- we agreed to a contract with a real estate agent, a couple of days later we secured a VA loan pre-approval. The wild card (for me at least) is the approval was solely based off of my income and didn't include my wife's current earnings.

    I'm fine with this approach as we were already approved for more than I wanted to spend. The point of my question tonight though is I know that we have members here that've gone through this process and frankly it's very overwhelming.

    We've been putting every penny we could squeeze out of our budget for over a decade... ouch. That hurts to say it but it really does amount to our liquid life savings to get into a house. Anywho- I think that we're finally there (again at least after thinking we'd made it in 2020).

    My question to the Hide is what would you look for in a house? When negotiating the contract, my wife just shrugged her shoulders and left this up to me, however once we started looking at houses, strong opinions came up.

    My wife wants to talk about kitchens, closet spaces & pantries- I want to talk about school districts, taxes, land, potential appreciation, etc-I'd imagine that we're both right but like I said this is very overwhelming.

    I don't suppose that I'm alone and anyone else has gone through this process? Regardless- we're going to look at a wide variety of houses tomorrow afternoon.

    -LD
     
    Roof- that's something to negotiate with a new build at least. I'm leaning towards a steel roof, if for nothing else, longevity & insurance discounts.

    Walls- I hear you (or better put, I don't want to hear you, I'm looking at insulating interior walls just for that reason.

    Indoor plumbing- good point- I'd likely request a pump in the basement to avoid any water issues but have already ruled out quite a number of houses in our search for no reason other than they were in a flood zone and I have no interest in paying for that insurance.

    Dirt floors- interesting comment there, up here in the NE part of the country- basements are a thing although I'm noticing in certain areas- they're now being built on a slab with no basement- and not because of concerns with water tables but rather to cut expenses while still charging a premium price.

    Regardless- I appreciate your suggestions @n2ishun

    -LD
     
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    My question to the Hide is what would you look for in a house? When negotiating the contract, my wife just shrugged her shoulders and left this up to me, however once we started looking at houses, strong opinions came up.

    My wife wants to talk about kitchens, closet spaces & pantries- I want to talk about school districts, taxes, land, potential appreciation, etc-I'd imagine that we're both right but like I said this is very overwhelming.

    I don't suppose that I'm alone and anyone else has gone through this process?

    First off, congrats on the new adventure.

    As far as your priorities vs her priorities, you are both correct. Probably why God put you two together. She should understand the districts and taxes just as much as you should understand home design.

    My first place was perfect….except I didn’t know that in AZ if your garage faces west and you wrench past noon you are going to have a BAD time. Every time. Second house garage faces east. I welcome the morning sun. I’ve got shade on the driveway from 10-2p because of a well placed tree then the shadow of the house takes over.

    I didn’t plan it anymore than the west facing garage, but moving forward I won’t have anything less.

    Perhaps in your area it’s the opposite? It’s worth looking into.
     
    Also, you may be OK with the VA, but we found it was far cheaper with conventional financing. We did put a very hefty down payment on our current home though, >50% of the home’s value when we bought it, so that helped a lot.

    This was 4 years ago though, when borrowing money was ridiculously cheap. I wouldn’t be buying in this market…

    That said, our son and his wife just bought a new “starter” home that ironically cost more than any house my wife and I ever owned, except for our current residence. It made sense for them, because rent wasn’t any cheaper, and this way they’re at least gaining equity with every payment.

    We hope.

    Crazy times we’re living in right now.
     
    First off, congrats on the new adventure.

    As far as your priorities vs her priorities, you are both correct. Probably why God put you two together. She should understand the districts and taxes just as much as you should understand home design.

    My first place was perfect….except I didn’t know that in AZ if your garage faces west and you wrench past noon you are going to have a BAD time. Every time. Second house garage faces east. I welcome the morning sun. I’ve got shade on the driveway from 10-2p because of a well placed tree then the shadow of the house takes over.

    I didn’t plan it anymore than the west facing garage, but moving forward I won’t have anything less.

    Perhaps in your area it’s the opposite? It’s worth looking into.
    Thank you for sharing that-

    Truth be told I was looking for an area that didn't have the morning sun in our face driving to work but dang if it isn't hard to pick a house where the sun cooperates with our schedule & potential house choices.

    -LD
     
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    Location.
    Everything else can be fixed, replaced, renovated, endured or lived with.
    You can't change where it is.
    Completely agree with you,

    Hence why I'm talking school districts and property taxes while choosing a location but being countered with (and rightfully so) the argument about kitchen, closet space & pantry space from my wife.

    I reckon that neither one of us is 'wrong', just that this market is rather lousy is all. To be fair- I'm a fan of floorpans that offer a 'drop off' area (used to be called a mud room) & a 'foyer' with a coat closet...apparently that's a kind of weird expectation/thing to look for. Some more things I asked for that raised an eyebrow-

    I asked for a house fan- you know what I'm talking about, a big fan in the top floor of the house to suck in the cool night air and not have to run the A/C. Well that's not a thing apparently because it works against the HVAC system.

    I asked about a whole house generator being installed (again, talking a new build- already need to run the gas lines & breaker boxes) and that makes me a crazy 'prepper'. I asked about a steel roof for a new build because I heard it lasted longer and I might get an insurance break and I was met with wild eyes trying to process that request. The cherry on top- I asked "again for a new build" about options for a heated driveway here in PA-

    Whelp, you'd have assume I insulted someone's mother because that wasn't a good question- In my mind though- if we're doing a new build- they already have to pour the concrete for the driveway- we mid as well throw some resistors in to keep it clear right?


    Like I mentioned- this whole process is incredibly overwheling for me.

    -LD
     
    Heated driveways in the NE are really nice. if you will resell build at least 2k sq foot 3-4 bedroom and 2.5+ bath. People seem to want that on average. Good schools also needed for resale and if you have children yourselves. First floor laundry also a plus since that's basement territory of the country. Gennys are good but you dont use them much so a portable can get you through, unless you are really remote if so congrats. Steel roofs do last longer about double to tripple and are common in the south. I would definitely go steel roof on new build unless you can afford the engineered stone or other fancy roofs.
    attic fans are old, the new way is spray foam insulate the attic and raise the air pillow into the attic which makes the attic useable as well. If you do that I would go steel roof installed over decking.
    I like secondary heat such as a woodstove etc to supplement power outages if appropriate just something to get by.
     
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    Many good points above. I will also throw in check out the conditions of your future neighbors property. Appearances will predict how big of assholes they can be.
    We were the youngest to move into an older sub full of retirees. Nosey neighbors who actually are nice and keep up their property are a godsend.
    We had one old lady hire a furnace man to fix the furnace while we were on vacation because she worried about the stupid cats being chilly.
    Good luck, and remember good enough is good enough but perfect is always a pita.
     
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    Something to consider, depending on where you live, is the driveway and parking. How much flat area is there to park trailers, campers, etc?

    Why I say the driveway is, here in Michigan, we will see a house with a steep driveway, and say "that's gotta suck in the winter."

    Why I say parking area is, I fucked up when I bought my house, because I don't have much of any flat area to park stuff. Now that I've got multiple tow behind things, I really wish I'd bought a different place.

    Just a couple items you may not have thought of.
     
    Just ideas….
    Location -Location and Location
    Location of main water cutoffs.
    Correctly installed fuse panels boxes
    Heating and Air Conditioner locations
    Age of windows/ Doors
    Outside paint age - look into Rhino Shield
    Basement foundation cracks
    Roofs and insulation in attic


    We bought in 2019 in GA in a well know area. 5 bed/4 bath at about 4500 sq. Ft. Cost of $440K and did a roof/Doors/windows/new paint inside and out and new floors/updated kitchen and bathroom. I did the work myself EXCEPT roof. All in around $480K

    We were an all cash buyer due to saving and this location houses sell in less than 2 days for over asking. Current value is around $895K and they still sell in under 2 days.

    The KEY…. School location. Ranked one of the top locations for all elementary through highschool and 2 miles from the civil air patrol for kids to learn.

    It was a ton of money to spend but it is completely ours. Nerve rqcking to say thebleast to watch an account get zeroed out BUT no monthly mortgage which now rent would rival.
     
    Price, location and condition.

    If you live where it snows or gets icy a south facing driveway is nice. More property and fewer close neighbors. Beware of asshole neighbors, I turned down and awesome house at a great price next door to the neighborhood asshole. The asshole was hiding in bushes spying on me and the realtor when I called him out.

    Negotiate hard and if you have skills and want to fix it or update buy the worse house in the best area.
     
    I’ve bought and sold a shit ton of houses over the years and the most important thing I can pass on is don’t get caught up in what it looks like when you buy it, the single most important things are the envelope of the home the structure and the systems. Everything else can be easily fixed later if the plumbing is fucked don’t do anything if the electrical is fucked don’t do anything. Don’t rely on an inspector to tell you the problems have a certified technician of the individual systems come and look at the homes, HVAC plumbing, electrical roofing all that stuff pool if it’s gonna have a pool home inspector doesn’t know Dick about fuck is a waste of money the only thing you get out of home inspector is a report

    Oh, and the really the most important thing is don’t ever be afraid to walk away from a home that you want to buy don’t get emotionally attached to a home no deal is worth a headache and there are plenty more options out there

    Remember you marry the home and date the rate make sure it’s right
     
    Thank you for sharing that-

    Truth be told I was looking for an area that didn't have the morning sun in our face driving to work but dang if it isn't hard to pick a house where the sun cooperates with our schedule & potential house choices.

    -LD

    Sun in your eyes both ways is HUGE. Pisses you off before your day starts and again before you go home. I’m willing to bet 100% insurance companies know this and will be paid accordingly.

    Another thing I’ve learned along the way.


    Find “the right house” then hang out after work when people are home. Cruise by on a weekend day and night.



    Buddy of mine just sold his place for a premium. When I asked how he was planning to get top dollar when the crackheads are down the block….he told me the realtor has specific instructions to enter and exit from the “good side”
     
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    I just finished this same thing about a month ago. But that was after 4 1/2 years of looking, making offers, getting out bid by 20K +, and
    being overly picky about what I was looking for. As far as the VA loan process, it was pretty painless. With being able to do a wire transfer
    online and all the pre-closing docs signed with Docusign, it made it almost too easy. From contract to closing, it was about 3 1/2 weeks.
    I did have to do a little work to it. I renovated the bathroom and had the entire interior painted plus new appliances and furniture. Probably will need a new roof and windows in a couple years, but I can live with those for a bit.
     
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    everything about a house is important ;)

    To rank it though in some order that it makes sense can only be done by you.
    If you want a place to live, then get a place YOU want to live in

    If you are buying as an investment/residence then LOCATION is the #1

    Be in a hot location. I have done this twice in my life and it paid off well both times
    We will see in another year or 2 if I managed to do it 3 times (so far the magic 8 ball says yes)

    Research and find the best home inspector in your area. Pay the money to get a professional inspection
    Use that to negotiate price, but don't be a dick about it. I usually take the top 2-3 most expensive things and use in negotiations (my current house needed a new HVAC unit), then take the rest of the list, could be 20-30 things, just smaller things, and state I will pay for this long list of other things that are wrong ;)
    know your market, the above only works if the house isn't in a bidding war

    Taxes, I am all about low taxes, but there is a trade off. Sometimes a higher tax area will appreciate more because it is more desirable, do homework and figure it out. Look at the sum of all taxes and know what they include. Avoid HOAs if possible, if not possible research the HOA and cost increases over time.

    School districts will help drive the future value of a home in many areas, but not all. Greatschools.org can help there

    More important to me, look at the percentage of students in the local school district (all public schools) that are in the free lunch program. If that percentage is high, I will look elsewhere. It is very telling about the larger area you are about to move into. This info can be found in several places, it isn't a secret.

    Do your own homework on traffic patterns for your commute and/or to get to stores and doctors, what can you live with
    Advice to hang out in the neighborhood on Friday / Saturday nights is also good

    A realtor friend of mine told me to also look at the type of cars that are parked in a neighborhood, could you see yourself driving those cars? If no, move on
     
    People heat their driveways? That has to be some mild winter climate area shit. Southern facing though? Absolutely.

    And I agree with above that VA loans are always more expensive. Get the 20% down to not need PMI and run a 15 year fixed conventional for best rate available. It’s the difference of tens to hundreds of thousands, especially if not paid off early, to a VA 30 year.

    If you can’t come up with at least 5-10% down, that’s a clue you’re not financially ready to buy a home yet. Don’t fall into a trap because some lender said you “qualify”, they really hope you pay them a bunch of fees and then default so they take your whole house at a discount.
     
    People heat their driveways? That has to be some mild winter climate area shit. Southern facing though? Absolutely.

    And I agree with above that VA loans are always more expensive. Get the 20% down to not need PMI and run a 15 year fixed conventional for best rate available. It’s the difference of tens to hundreds of thousands, especially if not paid off early, to a VA 30 year.

    If you can’t come up with at least 5-10% down, that’s a clue you’re not financially ready to buy a home yet. Don’t fall into a trap because some lender said you “qualify”, they really hope you pay them a bunch of fees and then default so they take your whole house at a discount.
    PMI isn’t required on VA loans even with 0% down. The dirty secret with VA loans is the funding fee. It’s the same no matter the cost of the home up to the guarantee. So in order to truly get your moneys worth out of a va loan you need to buy more expensive homes. And also don’t forget the funding fee goes up every time you use the VA
     
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    PMI isn’t required on VA loans even with 0% down. The dirty secret with VA loans is the funding fee. It’s the same no matter the cost of the home up to the guarantee. So in order to truly get your moneys worth out of a va loan you need to buy more expensive homes. And also don’t forget the funding fee goes up every time you use the VA
    Conventional with enough down avoids those funding fees in the first place, while still not having PMI and having equity in the home to be that much closer to out of debt.
     
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    1) Do not buy in a flood zone or if the basement is damp.
    2) Sometimes a so-so school district is fine if the tax savings pay for private schools.
    3) Otherwise, lots of good advice above.
     
    A couple folks have mentioned cost vs. neighborhood average price… To me this is the second-most important consideration after location. We’ve almost always bought a house that was below the median value for a given neighborhood, and have always made out well on resale as a result.

    In other words, try to buy the cheapest house available, in the most expensive neighborhood you can afford. You’ll almost always come out ahead in the end.
     
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    Conventional with enough down avoids those funding fees in the first place, while still not having PMI and having equity in the home to be that much closer to out of debt.
    Yes. These days min 20% to avoid PMI. There are strategies where less than 20 makes sense but ultimately it’s always better to put money down. There are a lot of strategies out there besides just straight saving but the biggest thing first is to decide is this an investment or a home I plan on living in for a long time. Both are technically investments but the strategies are vastly different.

    Also, in reality, the VA finding fee is just
    PMI paid up front if you go 0% down. There is almost no reason to use VA if you have 20% or more to put down.
     
    Last edited:
    Location is key.

    Around here the school district matters. You can be 50 feet away from a town line and house prices will vary 20% because of the school system

    If you can be east of work then that’s better for battling the rising or setting sun during rush hour commutes. that makes a big difference here

    and for me, since snowy winters is a factor. I want my driveway facing south or west. Otherwise it’s an ice rink in the winter because the sun never melts and dries it
     
    Focus on the things you can’t change.
    Location, location, school dist, roads, neighbors, hoa, etc
    Making potentially the biggest purchase of your life is a good time to leave feelings and emotions out.
    You can update the kitchen and fix the porch. You can’t fix local politics, school dist, the neighbors from hell, etc.

    Probably the biggest investment of your life, think of it as such.
     
    I asked for a house fan- you know what I'm talking about, a big fan in the top floor of the house to suck in the cool night air and not have to run the A/C. Well that's not a thing apparently because it works against the HVAC system.

    Actually it is a thing, but contractors hate doing it these days and often act like they don’t know what you are talking about. I had one, dare I say forced the contractor, to install one in a new house I had built in Coeur d’Alene, ID in 2004. It was a 2950 sf two story home and the fan sucked at 7800 cfm. It was awesome. I opened the downstairs windows in the morning and ran the fan and when the outside temp rose to greater than 65-67 I shut it off and closed the windows. Rarely had to run the AC. It had some special blades that were not a loud; basically a bigger variable speed motor with large blades that ran at a lower rpm.

    Also if you are in snow country, make sure no roof lines are positioned to have snow fall off on a deck or sidewalk that is not covered. That leads to exponentially more shoveling.

    As others have said; LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION!!
     
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    Having been in the mortgage end of the business: be prepared for nothing from the old house to 'work' with the new house. Your wife is going to want new furniture, drapes, bedroom stuff, etc Nesting is a real thing and will probably cost you $$

    M
     
    The thing about the asshole neighbor is so true , if I hadn't got such a good deal on my current home I'd be so pissed I moved here , actually when I 1st moved in for the 1st 2 years I got along great with the old hippie , BBQ,ed with him drank beer with him ect ,but there were signs , then one day it was like a light switch went off and he has become the neighbor from hell , hopefully he'll croak soon from all the meth he does , so anyway ask around , try to find out if your potential new neighbors have any criminal records or known sycophantic tendencies.
     
    Get what the wife wants.. you will be happier for it.

    Just make sure are no:

    Neighbors
    Flooding problems
    Bad Windows
    Settling foundations
    lawns to maintain
    Criminals - but that's covered under neighbors
     
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    PMI isn’t required on VA loans even with 0% down. The dirty secret with VA loans is the funding fee. It’s the same no matter the cost of the home up to the guarantee. So in order to truly get your moneys worth out of a va loan you need to buy more expensive homes. And also don’t forget the funding fee goes up every time you use the VA

    Also, in reality, the VA finding fee is just
    PMI paid up front if you go 0% down. There is almost no reason to use VA if you have 20% or more to put down.
    Funding fee can be avoided with certain awards. The fee isn’t even close to PMI amounts. If I would have had to pay it on the house we bought 8 years ago, it would have been 5K for a 250k loan. On a conventional loan to avoid PMI, that would have been 50k for 20%.
     
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    When we moved, we could go anywhere in the country

    Order of priority for us:
    -conservative state
    -conservative town
    -low increase of property tax(that says the town is well run)
    -school quality
    - house

    If the first 4 didn’t pass muster, we didn’t look at the house
     
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    Always check the neighbors and crime stats of the area. And no HOA. IOW, double check then triple check the locals. You can have a great house with terrible neighbors and it will suck. You can have a OK house with good neighbors and be much better off emotionally. The price of bad neighbors can be very high.

    If you are the church going type make sure there is one you like fairly close. Those members over time become part of your lives so it’s an important consideration.
     
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    Take a deep breath, give your brain time to return to normal, your ducks are in a row...... Savor the moment.
    Don't let frustration push you towards making a snap decision.
    "Deals" will be getting better by the day.
     
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    Tips for buying a home?

    Don’t. Wait until after the election at least to see how it goes.

    I wouldn’t buy a house right now for anything. Everything is too damn expensive.
    1716769712571.gif
     
    My wife and I grew up with parents who all did real estate, either as realtors (her mom) or investment properties (all of our parents) for decades. We have watched our parents buy, rent, and sell and have rented, bought, and sold dozens of homes over our lives. I moved a lot as a DoD dependent, active duty serviceman, and ping-pong ball all over the US and the world.

    We’ve never seen a price point environment like this, where base home prices have surpassed the capacity of most families to buy a home, so you’re in a great position just being able to qualify. This is a sad commentary on the market, but just the way it is.

    First thing I look at is 2A friendliness and crime rates in the area, as a father/male protector/provider. That’s our first role. I also look at the crime rate trends. I used to do a lot of surveillance and electronic/internet pre-surveillance work-ups, so I apply those skills before looking at the MLS.

    iu


    Biggest contributor to crime is demographics, no other way around it. School districts are just who sucks the least, which is not satisfactory to us, so we have home-schooled the 3 younger kids. My 2 older ones are adults, who went to private and study-abroad programs. One is married already. Home-schooling saves you big time in gas and outside-of-home fees, while also costing you in things you have to pay twice for. It’s worth it for the sanity of your offspring and family, especially given the lack of academic rigor that has been trending in schools for the past 120 years.

    Next look at traffic. Traffic trends can go from quiet and free to congested in a matter of 2 years, which is what happened with our last move/area. For the Northeast, you probably are already well-aware of the deep freeze, icy roads, and ice storm conditions that can affect rural roads if you find a nice secluded location.

    If you’re looking at more suburban neighborhoods, traffic and access to grocery shopping, auto services/repair, dentists, hospitals, fire stations, restaurants, and recreation are huge considerations. For example, shooting ranges are a big deal for me due to how much I shoot, and I pretty much shoot outdoors exclusively.

    The House and Land
    The parcel needs to be well-graded, which is the first thing most inspectors and appraisers look at. If the driveway grades down from the road into the garage, that’s not a good start. If the parcel is near high-power wires or towers with RF antennae, you don’t want to live near there due to EMF and its effects on tissue, aberrant cellular replication, and resulting cancers. I also don’t like the power boxes on the park strip if I can help it.

    I don’t like narrow streets with no room to park for guests, and I like wide driveways with room for our vehicles to get in and out or park.

    iu


    Make sure the parcel doesn’t have easements or trails in-use through it if you don’t want a headache to deal with.

    I like the house to be far enough from the road, not right up on it like a lot of these new greedy developer cookie-cutter lots and plans that have been built over the past few years.

    Check the geological engineering in your area to see that there isn’t bad soil with lots of erosion and major foundation settling. Some lots have creeks that ran through them that aren’t disclosed to all the buyers, for example. Also check that you don’t live in a chemical run-off zone from prior industrial plants. We came across homes that were affected by all of the above reasons, none of which were even known to the realtors or inspectors.

    iu


    House
    Biggest thing about the physical house itself is the foundation, after the land and grading is squared-away. Builders nowadays only care about quick-fixes, so they want in and out ASAP due to time value of money and labor. (Money going down, labor going up)

    Foundations need to be poured on good footings and compacted earth, otherwise you get a lot of cracks and settling. There is always going to be settling, but you don’t want cracks that grow beyond 1/4”-1/2" in height for your foundation. The path to our porch has sunk about 2” so far, huge crack between it and the steps, for example. It will need to be lifted with foamcrete services.

    Next is the framework or brickwork. Brick is probably out unless you find an existing structure, which are common in PA. For your framing on existing homes, you don’t want termites or black mold. For new builds, framers are cutting corners like I’ve never seen before nowadays. Terrible work is the norm, sadly. I’ve probably walked through 150-200 new-builds over the past 4 years just looking at the construction “quality” as they go up in areas around me. A lot of craftsmanship was lost post-2008 with the crash caused by Congress, putting a lot of legacy builders and contractors out of the market who never came back.

    iu


    iu


    One thing I do like about the more modern floor plans though are large walk-in closets and kitchen pantries. For your kitchen, make sure it accommodates traffic well, otherwise you’ll be squeezing past each other between the fridge and island countertop, which can cause a lot of points of conflict and frustration in one of the most important rooms of the house.

    A top-quality inspector will go through the house thoroughly and write-up a deficiency list. The last inspector we used had thermal imaging cameras to assess insulation efficiency in the attic, took HD photos of everything and plugged it into his report, was very thorough and really nothing like I had seen before dealing with inspectors. Pay for the best, don’t skimp on your inspector.

    One of the main things you’ll have in mind as a buyer are the number of bedrooms and bathrooms you want. Don’t bite off more than you can chew, and get what fits your planned family. Another thing common with some of the newer SFR builds is 3-car garages with the main and a smaller attached side garage. Those are big selling points to consider.

    IF YOU GO WITH A BUILDER

    GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING!!!

    SOME OF THEM WILL SCREW YOU OVER FOR SPORT
     
    Don’t buy a house right now

    Your gonna overpay badly
    This is some of the worst advice that has been given over the past 4 years for someone that is qualified. There are people who waited for the election and got priced-out, namely hard-working people in excellent jobs who could have qualified before the rates and median prices went out of control, who now can’t qualify for the places they’re currently renting if they were for sale.

    We’re talking people who have done all the right things, held down high-paying jobs for 10-20 years, clear far more than median household on their individual salaries, pay their bills, but still got priced-out due to the market prices around them.

    The Pennsylvania housing market appears to be quite stable compared to 29 other States in the Nation, with median home price at $285,700 as of April 2024. That’s low compared to most of the Nation, which is $433,500 as of April 2024.

    I would be throwing-down in that market if it met my other criteria (crime, 2A-friendly).
     
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    This is some of the worst advice that has been given over the past 4 years for someone that is qualified. There are people who waited for the election and got priced-out, namely hard-working people in excellent jobs who could have qualified before the rates and median prices went out of control, who now can’t qualify for the places they’re currently renting if they were for sale.

    We’re talking people who have done all the right things, held down high-paying jobs for 10-20 years, clear far more than median household on their individual salaries, pay their bills, but still got priced-out due to the market prices around them.

    The Pennsylvania housing market appears to be quite stable compared to 29 other States in the Nation, with median home price at $285,700 as of April 2024. That’s low compared to most of the Nation, which is $433,500 as of April 2024.

    I would be throwing-down in that market if it met my other criteria (crime, 2A-friendly).
    Come down here to FL and try to find a home.

    House on my street just sold for $450K and idk how. Word is there was a bidding war. 3/2 1800SF with a yard barely big enough to piss in.

    3 years ago the same house was $250K, max

    It ain’t worth it to buy right now. Maybe after the election, but the way it’s going it’s only gonna get way worse.
     
    Get out of the city. If this is your forever home, move to the sticks. An hour to hour and a half commute is worth it.
    Sacrifice square footage for acreage.
    Buy the biggest lot or tract you can afford. Try to get something with a creek. Don’t build in the flood plane. Look at hundred year flood lines.
    You want a private well and septic system.
    Keep trees as far away from the structure and septic system as possible.
    Water should run away from the structure.
    The finish on metal roofs doesn’t last any longer than a good shingle.
    Avoid complicated roofs (hips, vallys, and dormers are notorious for leaks) and unnecessarily steep pitches. You’ll either have to pay or replace the roof yourself eventually.
    Brick or concrete lap siding.
    Buy good windows.
    Keep it single story.
    Unless you have severe back trouble, build on a slab.
    Buy a print that makes sense. You’ll want big closets and master bath. No hallways. Standard height ceilings. Trays and vaults are pretty but add to framing costs and it sucks getting cobwebs out of a high peak vaulted ceiling.
    Lots of lights, both interior and exterior.
    Make it as cheap and easy to maintain as possible. Roofs eventually leak, siding has to be painted, and the list goes on.

    Stick to the budget.

    Find a good builder. Avoid cost plus percentage contracts. Get everything in writing. Stay out of the way and let him do his job.
     
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    however once we started looking at houses, strong opinions came up.

    My wife wants to talk about kitchens, closet spaces & pantries- I want to talk about school districts, taxes, land, potential appreciation, etc-I'd imagine that we're both right but like I said this is very overwhelming.



    -LD
    No you're not both right, you're right. You can't change the things you're concerned about. You can remodel for the things she wants.

    Thus endeth the lesson.
     
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    Where are you fellas with markets that allow for things like hanging around a house on a weekend to see what the neighbors are like? I’ve bought 4 homes in three different states and never had more than 20 minutes to make up my mind and make an offer. Full price offers, or over, often in cash, have been the standard in every market I’ve been in for the last 20 years.

    Location is everything. Find the right location and then let her shop for whatever. No HOAs, good schools, good positioning regarding work and community, INSURABLE (more and more places with high risk of natural disaster are being told there is no insurance available), tax situation you can live with, south facing driveway/garage in snow zones, whatever sets you free. Location is the only thing that matters.
     
    The VA is pretty strict to what they will allow to be wrong or needing to be fixed before you purchase a house.

    We negotiated what the seller paid for that needed to be fixed or he had to pay us for when we went to the table.

    Nothing major needed fixing, but the few things that did, he paid us the money to get fixed. I think the total was less than 1500, but I fixed them all myself.

    2 GFI outlets that's needed to be replaced, pressure bleed off valve on hot water heater(covered by existing warranty) and the sensitivity of the garage door before it would stop and go back up when it would hit something(adjusting the sensitivity screw on motor).

    Our roof was only a year old when we bought the house.

    Heater is only 3 years old no issues.

    AC was brand spanking new.

    Appliances were all brand new

    Foundation was in perfect condition also.

    Radon test was normal.

    Only thing I had to do right off the bat was buy a sliding screen door along with new screen material for all the windows. Did it all myself.

    The VA doesn't want you buying a lemon of a house and puts in extra checks to make sure you don't.

    Doc
     
    This is good info. I've been half ass looking online with a plan to get a agent sometime in August. Biggest issue here in NE Ohio is everything sells day one over asking price. I can't see how this is sustainable. The last time I bought a house was 02 and after 08 I was over my head while all my friends were buying at half price. I don't see how this can continue on the current path.
     
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    Come down here to FL and try to find a home.

    House on my street just sold for $450K and idk how. Word is there was a bidding war. 3/2 1800SF with a yard barely big enough to piss in.

    3 years ago the same house was $250K, max

    It ain’t worth it to buy right now. Maybe after the election, but the way it’s going it’s only gonna get way worse.
    OP is in PA and those are all rookie numbers today. I looked up the median home sale price in PA and it was $285,700.

    You can’t find a townhome built in the 1970s for that price around here (Utah).

    We saw banners for new town homes in Sandy, UT starting at $720k.

    My neighborhood consists of homes that were built mostly in 2018-2023. The 2018 prices were $318-$323. Now everything is $585-$740k here. It just depends on the market.

    PA is below the National Median home sale prices, so very affordable.

    Another thing a home-owner/mortgage-holder can do is refinance if rates go down.

    I think inflation and rates are here to stay for a long time, but I don’t have a crystal ball.

    As of December, the total US market is 3.2 million unit short, so prices are set to stay high.
     
    This is good info. I've been half ass looking online with a plan to get a agent sometime in August. Biggest issue here in NE Ohio is everything sells day one over asking price. I can't see how this is sustainable. The last time I bought a house was 02 and after 08 I was over my head while all my friends were buying at half price. I don't see how this can continue on the current path.
    You are correct... It can't continue. Your "gut instinct" is going to be your best guide. Be the captain of your ship in the upcoming time.