- Thread starter Forgetful Coyote
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The police department stated the officer had no knowledge of the events at the store. The officer told Brown and his cousin to get off the street and onto the sidewalk and it escalated from that point. All of this is because of the jay walking.
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WOW!
MLC
What's important is the suspects state of mind, he thought the police were onto him, that's why he fought.
What's important is the suspects state of mind, he thought the police were onto him, that's why he fought.
I moved from Atlanta for several reasons. I too am not as far as I'd like, yet. One of the most important factors in assessing how much you might suffer is an accounting of your neighbors. Are they with you, against you, or indifferent? Same goes for LE. As has been widely discussed on the Hide there can be huge differences between one LE department and the next. While in Atlanta I had a situation with some thugs and they couldn't leave well enough alone. There was lots of awful fallout, including two physical encounters one of which was absolutely brutal. Much to my dismay I found neither my neighbors (with a single exception) nor the APD willing fight the good fight, and both were worried about what I may do to clean things up. If anyone finds themselves surrounded by such people my advice to you is get the hell out of Dodge before you are on the receiving end of a lesson in loss. Something to keep in mind is that these are the folks that will make up any future jury pool. You can win the battles but lose the war. I would not want to be a resident of Ferguson (or Newark or Baltimore or Oakland or New Haven or...)
I think Mr. Langelius is well grounded in his assessment and I wish I could buy him a beer for putting things as pointedly as he did.
Here is a pic from a game cam in my former house. I am not posting this to draw attention to my story, but rather to what he is holding in his right hand. Twice I have been a resident of a city where such people enjoy a certain celebrity. Even in mainstream media such behavior is given a stature that future thugs aspire to. Somewhere in here [MENTION=25047]KYpatriot[/MENTION] wrote about an enslaving circle of behavior that I think should be placed as a preface in every Sociology 101 text book. In my estimation this kid is in about the 3rd or 4th generation of that circle. When the APD detective saw the picture his immediate and only reaction was "Oh crap, what is MTT going to do next?" Unfortunately it did not end well for anyone, just a matter of who got things worse.
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Interesting, everything I have seen indicated that he was unaware. I read multiple articles stating that the store owner never called or filed a report with the police over the incident.
It seems that journalists aren't concerned with the accuracy of their articles.
Being from Mississippi I can somewhat understand what is going on Ferguson Missouri right now. First of all the left-wing media is using this as a platform to get high ratings and some of the more radical left-wing media are using this to Pretty much start a revolution of sorts. I've been following this very closely from what I can tell members of the left don't care one way or the other if the officer fired in self-defense. Simply put , they want the officers head on a platter and rules and law of government do not matter in order to get that result. Case in point they want the DA to be removed as prosecuting attorney because his father was killed by an African-American and that therefore makes him biased. Point number two.. since when has the President and attorney general for the United States of America deemed it necessary to send 40 to 50 FBI agents to a town after a police shooting to investigate a civil rights case? If I had to guess it would probably be in 1960s Mississippi. But the differences between 1960s and the 21st-century civil rights investigations are that it in Mississippi there was for a fact, organized groups trying to keep the African-Americans in a low socioeconomic state. In Ferguson, a police officer ,while doing his job ,was physically assaulted by a guy who had just committed a strong armed robbery and had to make the ultimate choice in order to save his own life. That's what I BELIEVE. That is yet to be seen however but that is not the point. The point is that there is no one in Ferguson trying to keep African-Americans down. I keep hearing on CNN how the voting ratio is so out of whack. That's because the African-Americans choose not to vote. I'm so sick of it being taboo to say anything about race in America. Facts are facts. They are looting, they are shooting ,and they're destroying innocent people's businesses. I'm sick of all media twisting and turning the story because no ABSOLUTE facts have come out yet.
Either way this is a lose lose for America. If the officers not indicted, looting and protests will probably break out all over the country.... If he is indicted, it will send the message that all cops are bad and therefore you should never trust the police
My overall discussed is again , with the media. They are playing in this like a fiddle and it makes me sick
Some people may say I'm from Mississippi therefore a racist. That's simply not true. No matter what color , I always try to give the person a fair shake. though on some levels, African-Americans in the south are just as racist as some of the white southerners. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you racism doesn't exist in Mississippi and South because it does. There always has been and always will be an element of racism ,But it's a two-way street. The only differences is that is taboo for the white people in this country to say anything negative about a person of color. And probably always will be
Either way this is a lose lose for America. If the officers not indicted, looting and protests will probably break out all over the country.... If he is indicted, it will send the message that all cops are bad and therefore you should never trust the police
My overall discussed is again , with the media. They are playing in this like a fiddle and it makes me sick
Some people may say I'm from Mississippi therefore a racist. That's simply not true. No matter what color , I always try to give the person a fair shake. though on some levels, African-Americans in the south are just as racist as some of the white southerners. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you racism doesn't exist in Mississippi and South because it does. There always has been and always will be an element of racism ,But it's a two-way street. The only differences is that is taboo for the white people in this country to say anything negative about a person of color. And probably always will be
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FS1,
Are you a proponent of the Socratic method?
Your previous posts were the most crazy crap I had been reading and now you come 180 degrees and start making sense.
My God man you must be one independent thinker. It takes a big fish to swim without a school.
I salute you until the next time you go off the reservation with some crazy shit.
At every interaction with a PO, unless in Britain, there is a firearm involved.
I'm not making judgement one way or the other until the facts come out.
Assuming there was a struggle for the weapon Mr Brown's being unarmed was only based on the ability of his 300 pounds to overcome whatever pounds the officer weighs.
A fight is never required to be "fair" only lawful.
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The cigar incident is relevant to the mindset of the involved parties.
One party knows he has just committed a crime, an arrest able offense, and is minutes later in a meeting with a LEO. What if the LEO is not aware of the incident at the contact. which party is condition red while the other is perhaps condition yellow?
It matters in concerns how a situation can develop.
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This is EXACTLY EXACTLY CORRECT!!!
Use of force continuum does not require a progression of applying force from minimum to most lethal. You can go directly from A to F. You don't have to go from A to B to C.....Nor do you have to apply just the force that you are facing. The least amount of force necessary to protect life and restore the safety of the community is authorized.
I agree this issue is as more economic than racial.
If you want to discover the roots of that issue both parties can share the blame.
Since 2008 though this situation had been exacerbated and right now with our border policies will be fatal for the black community.
How have they benefitted from manufacturing all our crap in China? The loss of low skilled manufacturing jobs us a color blind opportunity killer.
How has the lower class benefitted from low interest rates. Traditionally a savings account at least paid 3 to 7 percent depending on how long you wanted to tie that savings up. Our seniors and low income families shouldn't be in the stock market and safe interest on savings used to be worth their while. Not anymore.
Quantitative Easing has not resulted in expanding production to create low skill jobs. All it's done is allow the rich to take advantage if low rates to borrow money and bubble up the stock market. Again the low income class has been left out.
So while all these people inFerguson are signing up at the voter registration booths a certain party has been establishing amongst the looters they should realize that the people reported to be helping them are doing the most to harm them.
What? ... and all this time I thought we were equal. I wonder what would happen if I started talking about the WHITE community?
Of course you wouldn't know it by listening to anyone talk, and with BET (BLACK entertainment television) and BLACK news networks, black this black that. Boy, sure seems like equality took a back seat to entitlement.
Before we can be equal, one race can't be constantly considered to be different than the other... by any side.
I've been in poverty. I didn't go burn down my neighborhood and steal shit.
Its much more about economics/poverty than race. Our cities are filled with poorly educated black kids with no where to go and no way to get there if they had a place to go. You can talk all you want about pulling yourself up by the bootstraps, but in an over populated society, thats not as easy to do as to say.
Remember that, next time you see someone preaching the tolerance agenda bullshit. If people were held accountable for their actions, and all social welfare programs were eliminated... people would either learn to "pull themselves up by the boot straps" or DIE. All this current mindset and system is doing is perpetuating the impossible situation you describe. Those kids were shown from infancy that they can be a worthless piece of shit and still get by. Until that stops... everything will continue.
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They are also raised to expect things to be provided to them, as their parents have taught them. Fill out the paperwork and go wait for the check.
Then, at some point later in life, they become aware that others have nicer things and live in better places.
Can't fill out that form. Gotta either work for it, which they have no skills or education to accomplish, or plan B, go try to take it.
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Same page.
Bits will trickle out as time goes by. I had heard this morning that he had a broken orbital... There is much to hear before even a fuzzy picture takes shape. However, the rioting is a different matter altogether and, I think, is apart from the facts of the altercation.
Ferguson Cop Had 'Serious Facial Injury,' Source Tells ABC News - ABC News
Ferguson Cop Had 'Serious Facial Injury,' Source Tells ABC News - ABC News
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They'll say he went back to the PD and had one of his buddies do that to make the story fly.
People believe whatever the fuck suits their own agenda.
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It isn't about poverty, but it is about having a stable support system at home, and being taught morals and ethics.
Few people grew up more poor than we did, but our parents and grandparents worked their asses off for what little they did have, and they never thought anyone owed them a damned thing.
They made sure that we knew right from wrong, and they made sure we knew that wrong had consequences.
We didn't have $200 Jordans and i-phones. Hell, we didn't have AC until I was about 16.
I have shat in an outhouse and I have pissed in a white rabbit kept under the bed.
But I have never once thought that my life was inferior to anyone else's. We had food, shelter, education, and loving parents.
We were too happy to know that we were poor.
Few people grew up more poor than we did, but our parents and grandparents worked their asses off for what little they did have, and they never thought anyone owed them a damned thing.
They made sure that we knew right from wrong, and they made sure we knew that wrong had consequences.
We didn't have $200 Jordans and i-phones. Hell, we didn't have AC until I was about 16.
I have shat in an outhouse and I have pissed in a white rabbit kept under the bed.
But I have never once thought that my life was inferior to anyone else's. We had food, shelter, education, and loving parents.
We were too happy to know that we were poor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXYa0X_jeUQ
I listened to an interview with a woman who is a friend of Officer Wilson. She explained what Wilson told her:
1. When the officer found Brown walking in the middle of the street, he told Brown to get on the sidewalk.
2. After driving down the street a short distance, he heard on the police radio a description of the suspect who stole the box of cigars.
3. Realizing the person in the middle of the street was probably the same who stole the cigars, he came back to confront Brown.
4. Brown then body slammed Wilson twice, and struggled to get Wilson's gun, which went off in the car.
5. Brown then ran away, then turned and came back at the officer.
The big question, is was Brown running at the officer, hands up or not, or was Brown complying with the officer's commands. I suspect that Brown was high on something, and was rushing the officer, trying to attack again.
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We are all one community and low skill white, yellow and green will suffer as much.
It was the MO DA as well as the protestors that refer to themselves as a community. Sadly the guy going down there to represent the administration makes a further distinction by referring to thus "group" specifically as "his people" indicating to me all the other humanity is nit his concern.
Got that right..., I figure if I don't go to hell/jail/whatever, those places don't exist.
Agee 100 percent, well said Tucker and a good story.
Whether you define 'success' from the anthropological perspective, the moral perspective or the religious perspective 'moral equivalency' never works and history is replete with examples of these failures. The probability of mapping to 'success' rapidly approaches 0 if you are not taught, from an early age, right from wrong.
It my be suggested that, if one chooses to have a root cause conversation, that this will never net out at jobs, racism, or any of the other excuse of the day. Frankly its a matter of re establishing the family structure. Most core values are learned by seeing what parents/leaders DO rather than what they SAY. Certainly activities outside the home influence a child however its moral compass or right vs wrong comes from the home. And that is strongly reinforced by a larger multi generational family.
From an ongoing societal perspective it will always only ever be about a stable family structure.
And I am deeply concerned that I just publically agreed with Tucker. :^)
It my be suggested that, if one chooses to have a root cause conversation, that this will never net out at jobs, racism, or any of the other excuse of the day. Frankly its a matter of re establishing the family structure. Most core values are learned by seeing what parents/leaders DO rather than what they SAY. Certainly activities outside the home influence a child however its moral compass or right vs wrong comes from the home. And that is strongly reinforced by a larger multi generational family.
From an ongoing societal perspective it will always only ever be about a stable family structure.
And I am deeply concerned that I just publically agreed with Tucker. :^)
Bet your local media hasn't brought this up, white victim and "non-white" police officer-
Family of man fatally shot by Salt Lake City police want justice | KUTV.com
Family of man fatally shot by Salt Lake City police want justice | KUTV.com
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Your wrong, it is about povert/economics, for the most part. They were brought here aqainst their will. NO other group here can say that. Then, the black people left the south because they were, while freed, still second, if not third class citizens, because of their color, and lack of money and education. Even free there were no jobs. They didnt come looking for handouts, they came looking for work. So they get to the northern cities and all the whites see is a bunch of poor negroes, and move out which creates a vacum, to be filled by more of the same. Then in the 1960's the Johnson admin. created social welfare programs designed to help them. Some took advantage and used them to climb out of their hole, while some took advantage and created a deeper hole they will likely never get out of. Thats what we are seeing now. Some more good role models and family values certainly wouldnt hurt as well.
Yes, we must "pull ourselves up by the bootstraps" but there are only so many positions at the top.
Im really surprised by all the "closet racisim" I see on here. When you dont study history you are doomed to repeat it. Study the history. Im not being soft on anyone, just looking at the truth. And the truth is, that the black people in America today, ARE at a disadvantage. Not what it used to be but its still there. Hell, white people are at a disavantage if your not one of the 1% We are all getting fucked, and tis is just another part of it.
Im not the first one in this thread to say it. "We created the problem." but what the fuck, you couldnt hear them, you wont hear me.
Popcorn.
Gunny bears.
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Ongoing is the operative word.
Once the chain is broken, it's very difficult to re-establish morality in less than two generations.
I didn't appreciate the way I was raised as much when I was 12 as I do now.
If I didn't have two parents, teachers, grandparents, aunts, and uncles all working on keeping me pointed in the right direction, I certainly would have bent the wrong direction. I tried anyway, but leather and hickory have a way of straightening out a bend before it becomes a full-blown buckle.
Today's challenge question is how do you re-instill values once the chain has been broken, and the lessons don't even exist to be passed down to the next generation.
My wife used to work in social services, and there are people who need what they provide to survive, for real health reasons, etc. But there is definitely a percentage of children who grow up with no other role models than people who go ask the government for everything, and willingly accept their miserable existence as a way of life.
True story. She had a "client" who brought in a new baby to get more monthly assistance. When asked what the child had been named, the woman uttered phonetically "fuh-mah-lay"
When asked for the proper spelling, the woman handed my wife the birth certificate, which read "Female".
She questioned thew woman about the name, and the response was that the hospital had already named the child "Fuh-mah-lay", and the family liked it, so they stayed with it.
As others have pointed out, the first thing is to remove the crutches from those who can clearly walk, but have yet to recognize that they can.
TRUE poverty and hunger calls upon human instincts to survive and to overcome adversity through effort and perseverance, not through coddling and the trappings of accepting minimums as standards.
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Goldie,
History is fine and all, but at some point you have to say that all things are now equal, and the scoreboard has been reset.
EVERY ethnic or religious group has at least one point in their history where they faced extinction from those who feared, hated or exploited them. Yet most, while remembering the lessons of the past with solemn reverence, have long-since decided that playing the victims only gets them the victims' roles in the play.
Life will type-cast you if you don't keep going to auditions.
History is fine and all, but at some point you have to say that all things are now equal, and the scoreboard has been reset.
EVERY ethnic or religious group has at least one point in their history where they faced extinction from those who feared, hated or exploited them. Yet most, while remembering the lessons of the past with solemn reverence, have long-since decided that playing the victims only gets them the victims' roles in the play.
Life will type-cast you if you don't keep going to auditions.
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Here is what I told some people who seemed to want an honest opinion from the other side today.
" Slavery does exist in America today, but instead of it being the old draft-based system, it's an all volunteer process these days.
Your willingness to play the roles you're expected to play, and your willingness to settle for meaningless lives of poverty, violence, and sub-standard living are your slavery. Do you think the powerful people are not aware that by throwing you some crumbs every now and then that you are easily appeased and kept in your chains?
Do you think your rioting and looting are going to change something?
Change to what? Anarchy? More rioting and looting?
Is that a sustainable model for a society?
Let's say we went with that. How long do you think it would be before we reverted to being nothing but savages, killing each other and taking what we wanted from each other?
Do you have any clue how vulnerable that makes this nation to being taken over by an organized and persistent enemy?
The rules have been written, and no one's going to change them for you. Especially you!
Keep killing each other. Keep behaving exactly as you're expected to behave. We'll keep working and building this nation, and we'll keep throwing you the scraps you so dearly covet.
Your shackles have been unlocked for decades, but you seem to like the way they feel, and who are we to argue with that?"
" Slavery does exist in America today, but instead of it being the old draft-based system, it's an all volunteer process these days.
Your willingness to play the roles you're expected to play, and your willingness to settle for meaningless lives of poverty, violence, and sub-standard living are your slavery. Do you think the powerful people are not aware that by throwing you some crumbs every now and then that you are easily appeased and kept in your chains?
Do you think your rioting and looting are going to change something?
Change to what? Anarchy? More rioting and looting?
Is that a sustainable model for a society?
Let's say we went with that. How long do you think it would be before we reverted to being nothing but savages, killing each other and taking what we wanted from each other?
Do you have any clue how vulnerable that makes this nation to being taken over by an organized and persistent enemy?
The rules have been written, and no one's going to change them for you. Especially you!
Keep killing each other. Keep behaving exactly as you're expected to behave. We'll keep working and building this nation, and we'll keep throwing you the scraps you so dearly covet.
Your shackles have been unlocked for decades, but you seem to like the way they feel, and who are we to argue with that?"
Fixed it for ya.
But they arent and it hasnt.
Maybe 60-70% but certainly not fully.
And if it aint equal it aint equal.
If you want to avoid all out craziness next time, the police need to first all start wearing body cams and car cameras and the whole footage needs to be available promptly to the public in questionable situations, as nothing speaks quicker or clearer than unbiased footage of the whole event start to finish, with names and details, not a game of guess who.
Then the police need to stop being asses and harassing citizens or professionals that also record them (pushing reporters heads into walls and purposely shooting riot devices in their direction is a sure way to get you labeled as the local oppressor force in a huge hurry). None of this trying to grab people's cameras and phones crap in the name of "evidence", that just screams Oppression, Intimidation and cover up. If they need, ask people nicely to record from the sidelines if they are in the way, & if they want a copy of some footage, ask and if needed get a court order requesting the person provide a copy of the footage in a reasonable timeframe. (or just go ask the NSA for a copy).
I would lay good money that had good quality complete footage with audio of this incident been made available to the public promptly, and names / initial reports been attached, the situation would not have escalated.
Sure some of the police may not like everything being recorded as they may have to behave a bit more professional and those they have interactions with may not like it either as they wouldn't be able to be as free to be raging asses and then claim it was all the police's fault, but in the end it will protect everybody.
It will only work however if all the footage is released on every event regardless of who it makes look bad.
Then the police need to stop being asses and harassing citizens or professionals that also record them (pushing reporters heads into walls and purposely shooting riot devices in their direction is a sure way to get you labeled as the local oppressor force in a huge hurry). None of this trying to grab people's cameras and phones crap in the name of "evidence", that just screams Oppression, Intimidation and cover up. If they need, ask people nicely to record from the sidelines if they are in the way, & if they want a copy of some footage, ask and if needed get a court order requesting the person provide a copy of the footage in a reasonable timeframe. (or just go ask the NSA for a copy).
I would lay good money that had good quality complete footage with audio of this incident been made available to the public promptly, and names / initial reports been attached, the situation would not have escalated.
Sure some of the police may not like everything being recorded as they may have to behave a bit more professional and those they have interactions with may not like it either as they wouldn't be able to be as free to be raging asses and then claim it was all the police's fault, but in the end it will protect everybody.
It will only work however if all the footage is released on every event regardless of who it makes look bad.
Agreed. Look at Israel. They are probably the most advanced country in the world when it comes to Intelligence. Why??? Because everyone who borders ultimately wants up annihilate them. Also, HISTORY OF INJUSTICE. They have been persecuted for centuries .... Now NOBODY wants to fuck with them ... Atleast in a fair fight. Their foreign policy is a testament to their " Fuck with Israel and you pay " attitude.
our wrong, it is about povert/economics, for the most part. They were brought here aqainst their will. NO other group here can say that. Then, the black people left the south because they were, while freed, still second, if not third class citizens, because of their color, and lack of money and education. Even free there were no jobs. They didnt come looking for handouts, they came looking for work. So they get to the northern cities and all the whites see is a bunch of poor negroes, and move out which creates a vacum, to be filled by more of the same. Then in the 1960's the Johnson admin. created social welfare programs designed to help them. Some took advantage and used them to climb out of their hole, while some took advantage and created a deeper hole they will likely never get out of. Thats what we are seeing now. Some more good role models and family values certainly wouldnt hurt as well.
Yes, we must "pull ourselves up by the bootstraps" but there are only so many positions at the top.
Im really surprised by all the "closet racisim" I see on here. When you dont study history you are doomed to repeat it. Study the history. Im not being soft on anyone, just looking at the truth. And the truth is, that the black people in America today, ARE at a disadvantage. Not what it used to be but its still there. Hell, white people are at a disavantage if your not one of the 1% We are all getting fucked, and tis is just another part of it.
Im not the first one in this thread to say it. "We created the problem." but what the fuck, you couldnt hear them, you wont hear me.
Popcorn.
Gunny bears.
Sooner or later you have to take ownership of YOUR life. Blacks have slid back in the last few decades. Their high school graduation rates have plummeted. Illiteracy rates are rising among blacks in the United states. I own a business and 50% of the applicants cannot fill out an application properly. They cannot spell properly, cannot count change to a customer, or even operate a cash register. The sacrifices their forefathers made to grant them equality are freely frittered away by the present generation. There are plenty of opportunities for blacks. SBA will make loans more easily to blacks, numerous grants and financial programs are earmarked by the Federal Government for blacks. In Georgia there is the hope grant that will pay for a college education and/or a trade school education. The access it there, but many choose the easy way out and apply for disability or government welfare. By and large the black population has failed to assimilate into American society. Is that the white man's fault? I do not know but there have been countless races that have immigrated to America that have suffered racial bias and have assimilated and thrived in the U.S.A. Asians, Indians (From India the country), Greeks, Italians, and even Hispanics. They have all migrated to this country for a better life. I understand your point that they were not brought here of their own free will, but that can be resolved easily.
Yes, we must "pull ourselves up by the bootstraps" but there are only so many positions at the top.
Im really surprised by all the "closet racisim" I see on here. When you dont study history you are doomed to repeat it. Study the history. Im not being soft on anyone, just looking at the truth. And the truth is, that the black people in America today, ARE at a disadvantage. Not what it used to be but its still there. Hell, white people are at a disavantage if your not one of the 1% We are all getting fucked, and tis is just another part of it.
Im not the first one in this thread to say it. "We created the problem." but what the fuck, you couldnt hear them, you wont hear me.
Popcorn.
Gunny bears.
Sooner or later you have to take ownership of YOUR life. Blacks have slid back in the last few decades. Their high school graduation rates have plummeted. Illiteracy rates are rising among blacks in the United states. I own a business and 50% of the applicants cannot fill out an application properly. They cannot spell properly, cannot count change to a customer, or even operate a cash register. The sacrifices their forefathers made to grant them equality are freely frittered away by the present generation. There are plenty of opportunities for blacks. SBA will make loans more easily to blacks, numerous grants and financial programs are earmarked by the Federal Government for blacks. In Georgia there is the hope grant that will pay for a college education and/or a trade school education. The access it there, but many choose the easy way out and apply for disability or government welfare. By and large the black population has failed to assimilate into American society. Is that the white man's fault? I do not know but there have been countless races that have immigrated to America that have suffered racial bias and have assimilated and thrived in the U.S.A. Asians, Indians (From India the country), Greeks, Italians, and even Hispanics. They have all migrated to this country for a better life. I understand your point that they were not brought here of their own free will, but that can be resolved easily.
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You can lead a horse to water but.....
I like this thread, plenty of arguements that at least have some credibility to their side.
Here's my take on the economic/social issue:
My father, grew up in a environment of poverty and crime. At 3 1/2, he watched his own father shoot several police deputies, walk over to the car that my dad and grandma were in, toss the gun in the car and laugh, then take off on a motorcycle. Three days later my father was taken over to the house that his dad was holed up in and surrounded by police in order to be used as a way to coax him out (Pauls Valley, Oklahoma, 1947 by the way). A shoot out ensued, my grandfather was killed by the police, who in turn each took a shot into my grandfather's body. My dad grew up with a stepfather who beat him whenever he lost his temper. In addition, nobody in the family had any money (as in my aunt's dresses were made from flour sacks kind of poor). Dad was made fun of in school for having his toes stick out of his shoes etc... The family did receive some government assistance money.
60 years later and my dad has a nice fishing boat, small airplane, '57 Chevy, and a gun collection that is pretty damn impressive just to name a few of his toys. He accomplished this by working his fucking ass off, and never settling for the life that was given to him. He taught me a few things that I have found to ring true in life. Some of these would apply to the Ferguson situation I believe:
1. People that are worth a shit will judge you by how you work, not what you say.
2. Anything that is worth doing is worth doing right.
3. Trash is trash, no matter the color.
4. You swim with shit and you are going to stink.
5. If people put as much effort into making something of themselves as they did feeling sorry about themselves, they'd have a pretty good life.
Now I have read a few things about economic injustice, and I can't argue with some of their points because I am a white male. However, as a white male, I have also been unable to be eligible to receive many of the scholoarship opportunities that have been afforded to minorities and women (3.96 GPA Associates, Accounting / 3.91 GPA Bachelors, HRM / applying to an MBA program as I type this). Officer recruiting in the Marine Corps still has to fill a racial quota (surprise!), meaning less competition and lower scores accepted.
I firmly believe that every gender/race has at least a couple of advantages specific to them, and a couple of disadvantages specific to them. What separates the "haves" from the "have nots" in these cases is the determination to push forward instead of sitting around and crying about someone else's advantage.
Here's my take on the economic/social issue:
My father, grew up in a environment of poverty and crime. At 3 1/2, he watched his own father shoot several police deputies, walk over to the car that my dad and grandma were in, toss the gun in the car and laugh, then take off on a motorcycle. Three days later my father was taken over to the house that his dad was holed up in and surrounded by police in order to be used as a way to coax him out (Pauls Valley, Oklahoma, 1947 by the way). A shoot out ensued, my grandfather was killed by the police, who in turn each took a shot into my grandfather's body. My dad grew up with a stepfather who beat him whenever he lost his temper. In addition, nobody in the family had any money (as in my aunt's dresses were made from flour sacks kind of poor). Dad was made fun of in school for having his toes stick out of his shoes etc... The family did receive some government assistance money.
60 years later and my dad has a nice fishing boat, small airplane, '57 Chevy, and a gun collection that is pretty damn impressive just to name a few of his toys. He accomplished this by working his fucking ass off, and never settling for the life that was given to him. He taught me a few things that I have found to ring true in life. Some of these would apply to the Ferguson situation I believe:
1. People that are worth a shit will judge you by how you work, not what you say.
2. Anything that is worth doing is worth doing right.
3. Trash is trash, no matter the color.
4. You swim with shit and you are going to stink.
5. If people put as much effort into making something of themselves as they did feeling sorry about themselves, they'd have a pretty good life.
Now I have read a few things about economic injustice, and I can't argue with some of their points because I am a white male. However, as a white male, I have also been unable to be eligible to receive many of the scholoarship opportunities that have been afforded to minorities and women (3.96 GPA Associates, Accounting / 3.91 GPA Bachelors, HRM / applying to an MBA program as I type this). Officer recruiting in the Marine Corps still has to fill a racial quota (surprise!), meaning less competition and lower scores accepted.
I firmly believe that every gender/race has at least a couple of advantages specific to them, and a couple of disadvantages specific to them. What separates the "haves" from the "have nots" in these cases is the determination to push forward instead of sitting around and crying about someone else's advantage.
Maggot, I respectfully disagree as that statement is woefully incomplete. The city in which I grew up, New Orleans, was put on the map in large part due to the Hatian revolution. If anyone happens to visit the Napoleon House restaurant (a former employer) I would encourage them to look directly across Chartres Street and notice the word "change" carved into the top of an archway. This word is all that remains of the original "Slave Exchange". This was a Creole owned slave market. I cannot use the term black and Creole interchangeably after having been admonished for doing so umpteen times while growing up. Hatians revolted against their slave owners, many of them being Creole (almost any American would identify as an "African American") who subsequently took refuge in New Orleans, some of whom prospered in the slave trade in New Orleans. Such mis-identification is not only wrong but it is intellectually dishonest. Since the Creoles from Haiti arrived on this continent there was a wave of Caribbeans of African descent following WWII, and many from the African continent since then. I enjoyed a brilliant chemistry professor in college from Zaire, and suffered humiliation at the hands (err, feet) by a soccer team comprised entirely of Cameroonian immigrants. I have not seen any place on earth that is so eager to lump people into nice little buckets as I have in the United States. To do so is to strip them of their history and cultural identity.
I grew up poor, from a broken home with six kids, in a violent atmosphere, only one of my parents having even a high school diploma (and they were the one who split leaving the other to work a gazilion hours to support us which of course means that we were largely unsupervised and roaming the streets of the 9th Ward/Faubourg Marigny/French Quarter), and as a racial minority. I was lucky beyond words to have been hooked up with a mentor who provided structure, discipline, predictability, and never let me off the hook for anything. Although at first I thought he was an insane bastard.
I had the experience of family social workers (at least once court ordered) who did little more than say things like "it's not your fault because of [insert phrase... screwed up family, you're poor, divorced parents, blah, blah, blah]". My situation became a sort of get-out-of-jail-free card. If there is a modern form of enslavement then that is it. I knew it was a pile of crap and at age 13 I couldn't believe there were adults who were so stupid. Thank God I had one or two good people who wouldn't let me get away with it.
There were several kids who made it out of that neighborhood. But what they had to overcome was not poverty, but a cycle of chaos and debauchery. And to top that off, overcome a system that vigorously supports the cycle. If someone wants to be a hero in Ferguson then help pull some kids out of that culture we see shooting the locks out of a liquor store door. But don't expect to make prime time news for your efforts.
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I am sorry but I don't buy into the UN-equal victim BS. If anything for the last 40 years since affirmative action they have been more equal than I. And a great many have taken advantage of that opportunity and become Doctors, Lawyers, Educators and many other professionals. The moment they got ahead most ran away from the very communities from which they came....like Ferguson. Many of them now go on Cable news shows saying how bad the Black man has it.
The black race is responsible for its own troubles. The white man cannot now and never will be able to fix it. Its a problem only the Black people can fix. And when those Blacks who have succeeded run as far as they can from the problem, how can their role models help if they are not there until there is a problem.
I am not saying racism does not exist it does. But don't blame me when I fear black men after watching the way they have acted in this situation. That does make me racist....It makes me a prudent man who observes the world around him and adjusts his actions to the environment in which he lives.
We have given the Black race all the tools they need to build a better life. If they choose not to use them....who's choice was that?
The black race is responsible for its own troubles. The white man cannot now and never will be able to fix it. Its a problem only the Black people can fix. And when those Blacks who have succeeded run as far as they can from the problem, how can their role models help if they are not there until there is a problem.
I am not saying racism does not exist it does. But don't blame me when I fear black men after watching the way they have acted in this situation. That does make me racist....It makes me a prudent man who observes the world around him and adjusts his actions to the environment in which he lives.
We have given the Black race all the tools they need to build a better life. If they choose not to use them....who's choice was that?
Providing people with free stuff does not provide them with the tools to succeed.
Think give a man a fish versus teach a man to fish.
How come it is that at national parks we admonish people to "not feed the bears because it will cause dependence". Yet this is exactly what we do with EBT, TANF, etc.
Ben Franklin warned against making poverty "too comfortable".
That's not the entire story. There is also the priorities and personal responsibility failure. Why is it someone will say they don't gave money for a $30 car inspection yet there will be three packs if cigs on the floor if the car. Why is it that when entering a house in subsidized housing the fridge is bare, clothes are all over the floor yet the flat screen is prominently displayed? These things must be taught young. Government will fail at trying to teach responsibility to an adult. This issue is neither a white or black issue it crosses cultural lines.
Regards culture another failure is that to recognize there is an American culture. The current trend is to recognize all cultures as American. It's a failure. In the not too recent past an American was one of the independent, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, entrepreneur, cowboy.
Anyone can be an American if they believe in themselves and the value if individual liberty. Dependence and irresponsibility are not American values.
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It's not up to us to teach them lazy fucks shit! Get off your welfare ass and get to work.
That's what YOU think, since you weren't there.
Now let me tell you what I think.
The cop doesn't know Brown has just committed a strong arm robbery. But Brown doesn't know that the officer doesn't know. Brown does know he's commited a felony and sees cops approach him. He assumes they are there to arrest him for the robbery or that if they pick him up for something else they will find out about the robbery.
Brown fights with the cop, tries to take his gun, strikes him hard enough to break facial bones, cop now has suffered what in my state is legally termed "serious bodily injury" and is beginning to "fear for this life" due to the attempt to disarm him.
Cop decides to use the deadly force that he is legally justified in using, shoots Brown until the assault stops. The assault stops when Brown takes one through the brain housing group.
Now let me school you a bit on the realities of using deadly force in self defense from a private individual's POV......
If you are unarmed and have the capability and intent (via larger size/strenght and totality of circumstance) to put me in a reasonable fear that you can and will inflict serious bodily injury (of which broken bones and concussions are a part of) I CAN legally use deadly force to defend myself. Not only that, when I can articulate those facts, supported by evidence, I will get away with plugging you full of lead.
Get this through your fucking head: being unarmed is not a shield against being lawfully shot. GOT IT?
