Advanced Marksmanship  Tips & Tricks, from Tripods to Stage Examples for - UKD Team Field Match or Hunting

Diver160651

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  • Feb 7, 2013
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    a debrief woud be great

    After I get a few pictures up, I'll write a debrief covering a few things I saw that might have made a very big difference in the outcome for some teams. I am sure every team wished they could do at least a stage or two over.

    If a stage was particularly frustrating for anyone, I'd love to hear about it. I did walk around and try to give a few generic tips to every team. I think one team even modified Mike Tyson's quote - They said, "Ya, we read the tips and had a plan, but It's like a punch in the face; We had a great plan until we started"

    in hind sight i wish, -snip -that we stopped searching for tgts at maybe 4 mins and just shot what we found

    In a really weird way, what makes our targets hard to find is that it appears the should all be so very easy to find. That's also why 1/2 of the targets are identified by number markers.

    You hit the nail on the head, tracking time, and knowing when to skip targets is key. The other is to both be looking at least at standing shooting height before setting the gear. As you do, you look for obstructions that might keep the shooter from seeing the targets if set too low.

    I would love to see you guys come back for Scott's monthly matches. They are super collaborative, targets are easy to find, time is generous, and will even be pointed out if someone is having a hard time; people will help coach if you ask or loan a bag. There is an all prone (Hunter division). In that division you can try an obstacle if you wish, shoot off a pack, sticks, or tripod, it is up to the shooter and they can mix and match. If you contact Scott you can almost always camp the night before.
     
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    todd

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    Sep 21, 2013
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    The Avenal UKD Team Match was a fantastic experience. I would like to thank Jim and Scott for all the months of thoughtful preparation that went into this match to make it challenging, enjoyable, and thought-provoking all at the same time. I also want to personally and publicly say a huge “THANK YOU!” to all the RO’s who gave up their day (most gave up their entire weekend to come down and work this event) to run their stages for the shooters. I found every single RO pleasant, professional and as helpful as they could be given the constraints they were given about not giving away the answers to the shooters. As most of the RO’s are experienced shooters, we could tell they were secretly rooting for each team to be successful, and were celebrating each team’s successes with the team, just like they would if we were shooting in a squad together.

    THANK YOU to all the sponsors of the event for the very generous prize table, your support is HIGHLY appreciated by the shooters!

    The par time of six minutes for each stage was TIGHT but manageable. A team needed to have their communication down, gear sorted out, and have done their homework, have a plan, and practiced applying all of the concepts presented in this thread in order to be successful within the par time. The information that was shared in this thread was invaluable, and really made for no big surprises when we got to each stage. The answers to every single problem presented to the shooters were included in this thread if one looked hard enough. Being a good student and taking and incorporating the advice herein went a long way. I put in a lot of practice in the past six months dedicated to preparing for this match. I did crazy things like practicing shooting off my tripod from a full standing position all the way out to 1K, which of course got me some crazy looks from my friends (you know who you are).
     
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    Calvinho

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    May 13, 2020
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    The match was challenging to say the least but smiles per gain of powder is very high. The gear tips and cof hints helped a lot during the match. I want to thank Scott and Jim for putting on such a great match at one of the best shooting facilities I’ve have been to. The time constraints were right on the money and the Ro’s were very professional and helpful in getting teams going and moving along. I want to thank the ro’s that even gave more hints such as on the last stage where my team would have timed out if it weren’t for the ro to let us know how much time shooter two had left to finish the stage. (Thank you Scott F). The prize table was very generous. If I were to say anything negative is that Jim needs to stop posting “hints” for the cof before the match it messed with my head and kept me up longer than it should have most nights trying to figure out if the hint was a hint or just something to mess with my head. But at the end of the day I had a great time and hope to do more matches like this one.
     

    seansmd

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  • Aug 8, 2018
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    I was sitting and catching up on my thoughts after this match, I wanted to thank you both(@Swoodhouse19 & @Diver160651) , and Mike @mmlook for a fun day!

    We both had great equipment, both had solid tripods(RRS) with Anvil-30 and plates or the ability to clamp in PLRF or optics., rangefinders, binos or spotting scope.

    Mike and I struggled to connect ahead of the match on some of the really good hints and tips on the hide, which reflecting back provided a lot of really great ideas that would have helped quite a bit. Our first stage of the day was a Reticle Ranging stage that required you to identify common sized items near UKD targets, measure them in the reticle, and convert to range. We both struggled in communication and we only got off 4 of the 16 shots before timing out. Our communication improved through the day, and the hints were in Jim's (@Diver160651 ) thread, so we could have been on the same page if we connected ahead of the match. I remember on stage 7 on Target 4 unknown target, I found it and indicated it was in the draw to the right of the marked target and gave Mike the range. It was on the finger to the right of the marked target and set him off looking in the wrong location, smartly he said let's transition and we told the RO we were skipping target 4 for him. I cost him some points on that target as it was forgiving once identified, and Mike is a great shot. Communication in these matches is HUGE!

    We did not have each other's dope and were shooting different calibers so we had to communicate in distance, wind in MPH, and each convert holds which cost time and added potential confusion. We also did not know how much ammo each had or had the opportunity to shoot each other's rifle to allow sharing a rifle on a stage. This would have been beneficial on a couple of stages (5B where target 4 was only visible from the back left corner of the box, and stage 7 where the firing position was in a hole and only enough room for 1 tripod and shooter.

    The match and COF was a lot of fun, if you haven't been to Avenal, the range is set in the rolling hills with various shooting positions, plenty of fixed targets and the ability to set up an infinite amount of unknown targets Huge amount of locations, distances, angles, loops, and obfuscating with hills partially blocking the target making ranging difficult and using max ord to drop in on the target. The hills also provide silhouetted targets that challenge rangefinders to hit the target vs the hill behind, the MDs used all of these to create lots of challenges, including painting the targets to blend into the natural landscape. This with the wind in the rolling landscape made for low hit percentage but HUGE fun and challenge.

    Again, bit thanks to Scott (@Swoodhouse19 ) Jim T.(@Diver160651 ), Jon Bibb(@Jabot, and Scott F. @sfogold , and all the RO's who sacrificed their time to help torture us with fun.
     

    Jabot

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    Avenal UKD match. Kick are ass ,very humbling to spend time practicing, planning even getting the same dope as my partner to make simpler and still only shoot a 50% hit ratio. Stage were very well thought out and simple if u used your head and not read into your instinct to over read the situation. Every stage had to targets gave to u and 2 that were hidden, all ranges unknown, this made target aqcuition a huge part of the match and I feel really separates teams from being on the top end of the scores, can shoot what u don't see. They brought back some old school stuff like reticle ranging ,which for someone new to lond distance probably never even heard of. Some of the hardest targets for r team were ones that were silloitted, making ranging targets harder if u let it. One target in particular u thought it was over a hill in a valley but was really just on a ridge line, causing u waste time trying to get correct range "dammit ".
    Great job jim and scott. To all the ro's thanks for giving up your weekend. u were great. All the sponsors thank u for stepping up and pitching in makes it even more fun to walk away with a prize.
     

    Apnea

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    This was really a fun match! Learned last year just how important time management would be, and got to a little practice with my partner, which paid off on many of the stages. I didn't realize that almost the entire match would be shot off the tripod (which I'm not that comfortable on), but it made things interesting.



    Some of the stuff that worked well for us:
    -good communication and knowing what the other guy is gonna do
    -similar dope, and identifying at what range we meaningfully diverge (i.e. same out to 650 yards)
    -faster shooter ranges targets while slower sets up and records ranges, faster shooter shoots first off dope from shooter 2, then shooter 2 shoots and uses any wind corrections from #1
    -choose a partner with excellent vision
    -not every adjustment when on tripod has to be via tripod, several stages I threw down my pack as a seat and improved my position

    What could be better next time:
    -I was slow locating some of the targets
    -not taking full advantage of similarities in dope
    -quicker tripod setup

    Again, thanks to Scott and Jim, the outstanding RO's and to the match sponsors! Can't wait for the next one.
     

    Diver160651

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  • Feb 7, 2013
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    HAPPY THANKSGIVING

    Thank you guys for commenting. Even if you shot and didn't feel as though you did as well as you had wished, please continue to ask questions or post comments; they'll go a long way in helping convince @Swoodhouse19 to MD another in 2021!


    They sell out very fast (this last one 10 months in advance) as Scott keeps the entry number reasonable because wants to keep the waiting down to a minimum and keep the day from getting too long. It is a ton of work for him and he's probably keeping the entry fee way too low, I think this match has the highest workload per $$ match he produces. To date, all the money collected, plus much of his own has gone back into the range. It also takes a village to prepare and put a match on like this. As an example, it takes two people to set each "harder to find target" or the targets that "under concealment" or thoughts that simply challenge your knowledge of your rangefinder. One is the person is back at the FFP with glass and within shooting tripod height as another is packing steel up and down ridges to create the perfect target set. Oh, the ROs, the Sign-in crew, and someone setting up Sponsors who put the icing on the cake, all work to make this happen. Even this thread with more than 13,000 views is a lot of man-hours, combined with the physical match, adds up to help create a fun event that we hope no matter how you do, proves to add knowledge and skillsets you might not get without investing a crazy number of hours and dollars. Using something you learned at this match, might make the difference on your next hunt.

    I will post up a bit of a recap on certain stages. If you have one or three (LOL), you'd like discussed, maybe why I set the COF the way I did, or want to know the real-world application, the challenge, and the most elegant solution could have been, ask away. If you'd like to see a stage repeated next year please speak up.

    I posted a couple of images on Facebook - but more will come here and on Scott's match Facebook page.

    Thank you again to the Sponsors that helped sell this event out 10 months in advance!
    Below are their Facebook pages, please visit them and say, Thanks
    Spartan Precision Rifles
    Manners Composite Stocks
    Maven
    Modular Driven Technologies - MDT
    Leupold Optics
    PRIME Ammunition
    Vortex Optics
    B&T Industries
    Applied Ballistics LLC
    Abel Co.
    Henderson Precision
    Sniper's Hide, LLC

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    Diver160651

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    I forgot who @seansmd told me rented a RRS with Anvil for $25 week, (edited to add the cheapest I saw was $72 week) but that was kinda brilliant. I looked it up when I got home and indeed found a lot of companies offering such services. Sure is a good way to test out tripods be it a 33, 24, or whatever.

    No disrespect to the shooter for not sharing and giving them credit for their amazing resourcefulness, I just forgot who it was. Heck, I don’t remember where anyone but the top three teams placed and that’s ONLY because I wanted to post it up here. Really, nobody cares about anyone other than themselves and that’s the best part of matches like this.
     
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    seansmd

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    I forgot who @seansmd told me rented a RRS with Anvil for $25 a week, but that was kinda brilliant. I looked it up when I got home and indeed found a lot of companies offering such services. Sure is a good way to test out tripods be it a 33, 24 or whatever.

    No disrespect to the shooter by not sharing and giving the credit for their amazing resourcefulness, I just forgot who it was. Heck, I don’t remember where anyone but the top three teams placed and that’s ONLY because I wanted to post it up here. Really, nobody cares about anyone other than themselves and that’s the best part of matches like this.
    Wasn't me, but that's brilliant! Some guys could run a rental shop with the gear they have in reserve....
     

    Nhelbert

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    Oct 11, 2020
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    Was an awesome match that challenged every aspect of our shooting game. My partner and I came away from every stage with something to work on, something we could have done better. You wanna get realistic about your shooting ability and working in a team dynamic? This match is a must attend!! We will be back next year FOR SURE.
    Huge thank you to all of the ROs, Scott, and everyone involved with setting this match up, it was a blast.
     

    HonkyTonk86

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    Oct 31, 2018
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    Another awesome Team UKD match put on by @Diver160651 and @Swoodhouse19!

    Once again learned a lot and was humbled on several stages. We learned the hard way that KNOWING how to shoot a certain challenge and EXECUTING on the clock are two very different challenges (loophole and pencil stage specifically). Being a good shooter is a small part of the skillset needed to do well at this match. Observation and team COMMUNICATION are key. @Jabot and I were able to work up loads with identical dope which was definitely helpful in saving us some time.
     

    Swoodhouse19

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    We found a few items of gear on the trail. If any shooters misplaced anything PM me about it....
     

    Diver160651

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    I know I said I'd have a debrief, but I am still way behind.

    Again, if anyone wants to know the idea behind the skills reflected by a certain stage, like, what in the hell does hitting a pencil at 23 yards have to do with real-world skillsets? Please let me know.

    For now here are a few images: MORE COMING

    1B the far loop holes.png

    1b the far loops side view.png

    5 staging area.png

    5a 5b wide.png

    5a pencils.png

    Pencils close.png

    5b another.png

    5b low.png

    5b.png

    7 or stage 9 briefing.png

    D_T 5b.png

    D-T 5b-back.png

    K Boys - great ROs.png


    Loop Hole Tripod setup for the 900 yard target package.png

    Jim Final proof of the Loop Hole Stage.png

    loop hole back 2.png

    rear view loop.png

    loop hole wide view.png

    loop hole zoom.png

    teams waiting.png
     

    Diver160651

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  • Feb 7, 2013
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    I hope that sharing the ideas and thinking behind the Course of Fire (COF) we set with those that shot these matches, and people who might face similar challenges in the field, will find a nugget of value to apply to their next team match or team hunt. Of course, what I am attempting to illustrate may get lost in my poor writing skills, and I can only touch on very few of the possible real-world dynamics that we are trying to simulate with our COF. I think I'll need to break this up into this overview and then individual stage examples. Stage 5a Dave's Devious Dope AKA the Pencils will be the first.

    The key to the match was teamwork, not just in the physical sense but in time management and the strategy for skipping targets and selecting those that would put the most points on the board. In order to skip targets and not lose points for shooting out of sequence, the teams needed to have the presence of mind to be in constant contact with each other and the ROs. The points were often heavily weighted, rewarding first-round hits, but each stage had the same number of 32 possible team points. Using a timmer, teams could use the clock to decide if they should stop looking for targets and engage the few they found. In some cases, shooter two could continue to look for targets even after shooter one engaged and shoot the newly found targets during their time on the gun for more team points. Of course, if you're not working as a team in total lockstep, this becomes an impossible strategy to implement. This is not a match that you should expect a 80% hit ratio, heck you'll probably not even find all the targets, and skipping as mentioned, is part of a good winning strategy.

    The primary inspiration for our COF comes from hunting with a partner using tripods and the experience of shooting many other matches. As such, were setting FFPs to really task the teams to know and use the full functionality of their tools and tripods. Once getting ready to set up in your Field Firing Position (FFP), one thing seems universally true, be it the approach for a long-range animal or a timed stage in a match, assessing the situation and the environment around you is vital. Shooting or hunting 'with" a partner ads an entirely new set of dynamics to be evaluated and communicated before stepping into your FFP. In the field, you must assess the terrain in the FFP and the obstacles between it and the target. Just as important as what and where the animals might move to when shot; this sometimes requiring compromises, continual communication is critical. Of course, all this is generally happening under adrenaline and time pressures. In our field match, we are trying to duplicate these challenges. Teams need to determine the proper line of sight (LOS), best 1st shooter choice, each shooter's location and select or skip targets for the maximum points under time pressure. Unless the team assessed the FFP before diving in, they tended to miss the actual problem, and their solutions almost always took too much time. This is what we use to create as similar to an adrenaline dynamic of a team hunt we can.

    Other than safety and concealment, here are a few examples of some of the things a team should consider when approaching an FFP even when hunting:
    1. Are there possible visual or impairments hiding the targets? If so, what would the best spotting and setup height be?
    2. If one is spotting and on target, can his teammate see the same from their shooting height?
    3. Are there possible bullet path impairments between the FFP and target?
    4. If shooting through close branches, etc., are you centered in your scope?
    5. Is a slope or an obstacle requiring or favors the partners' taller to set up in a specific location?
    6. What is the most expedient, quiet, and efficient way to set up?
    7. Should one help the other set up?
    8. Who should shoot first and at what animal/target?
    9. If one spot provides better stability, who should use it?
    10. Should both the shooters be indexed on their animal/targets and shoot at the same time, or should one shooter just sit back and watch the first?
    After shooting matches and hunting as a team, I've noticed that as soon as one's adrenaline is up, plans and techniques not well-practiced go right out the door. It's happened to me, and I've seen it happen to many others. Usually, less-practiced teams will immediately operate as two individuals whose focus narrows to setting up only their gear and thinking about their turn to shoot. With this more inward focus and by default, people want to set up in the lowest, most stable position and almost always set up the first shooter on the left and usually set up lower than the height they're spotting targets. They'll do this even before knowing their target location, and this is often a bad idea. Knowing this, we attempt to combine some of the natural challenges of each FFP and create a COF that exploit weakness when not working as a team.

    Some of these challenges and their "field utility" probably were not as transparent or obvious as one might think. For instance, at first glance, the loophole, pencils, and dots stages might seem like gimmicks, but they were each reinforcing Sight over Bore (SOB) knowledge and the former two, how real parallax issues need to be addressed when you find yourself in the field shooting through vegetation or prone over a gentle rise. A couple of other stages were best shot by the team using only one gun or at least one tripod and not trying to set up multiple tripods.

    Below is the first stage Debrief, Others will be added.

    Stage 5a Dave's Devious Dope:
    Pencils & Dots with unlimited ammo, how hard can it be?​
    This stage draws its inspiration from an excellent shooter who, for his 22 matches, was shooting matches, literal match sticks. But what does that have to do with field hunting? We'll, knowing exactly where your bullet is when hunting in dense vegetation is a skill many people don't often think about or know how to account for the possible obstructions. I've had friends and heard many stories of people clipping near twigs and branches, missing animals as a result.​
    IMG_2353-2.png
    If you know your distance to the obstruction, you can calculate where the bullet is simply by entering the distance as the target. The come-up, plus the mil/moa of the bullet, minus the dope you need to dial, will give you an idea of how much clearance you need to see in your scope when aimed at your target to miss the twig or limb. This is the same concept for the loophole stage. But that is not the end of the skill set; these close items cause massive parallax issues moving all over in your scope as your position changes. If you don't have enough parallax adjustment, the only way to ensure the image is in the correct place is to make sure your eye is in the exact optical center of the scope. The solution is to use scope shadowing. If you don't know what that is, please co back and look at the Stage Spoiler for BT's One-Shot Team Challenge - Dave's Devious Dope Test. Spoiler Tip.https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/field-match-tips-tricks-and-stage-examples-for-ukd-team-field-match.6980614/post-8556127
    Pencils close.png
    With the pencils set relatively high, we created an acute angle that, if shot from a low prone (small rear bag) with a tall bipod, scope alignment would be challenging. Improper parallax would easily contribute to a miss. We envision the easiest solution to be a high prone, bet suited with a tripod, upfront in the bipod position. This then was the very same solution for the dots. As an unlimited round stage, both partners should have been sling lead at the 10 dots simultaneously, and both should be set up high prone as illustrated in the image.​
    The solution we had in mind of setting up high prone off a tripod is far more stable than a bipod at the same height. While it isn't the only way to get the stage done, but it is probably the easiest and part of the test of knowing your gear and using it in a variety of ways. Unfortunately, we did NOT see one team utilizing the uber stable tripod method. That said, the winning team of @todd and @sfogold smoked or "aced" this stage!​
    Pig gun tripod prone.jpg
    The dots only had a very tiny position on the very left of the FFP where a typical bipod on tall would work. This was also a SOB test; what looked like a beautiful low prone set up at first glance was not. A target set a bit lower in elevation, a gentle rise in the dirt, and people were skipping rounds all day long. The other reason for NOT using the lowest prone possible is that the 1" dots are more affected by heat shimmer and dust from the brake. Teams that saw the low prone issue seemed to default to sitting, and as a precision stage, it added way more wobble, longer resets, and less accurate than needed, but it worked.​
    5a pencils.png
    Understanding the SOB, your dope, and how angular units work were part of this challenge. For the dope on the pencils, you need to remember that a 6.5 projectile, at 23y where the pencils were set is 1.1MOA; the pencil 1.04MOA fo a 2.14MOA/.62mil impact window. That means if you had a good trigger pressed and missed; then you missed by a lot! If you had this understanding, you could use your Kestrel that only goes to down 25y and get a rough difference per yard to target, then add that 2x to the target.​
    For instance, my come-up with my SOB at 2.4" is 1.41mil @ 23yards using Cold Bore.
    I can get that from a Kestrel, but need to do a few mental steps.​
    25Y is 1.23mil​
    26y is 1.15mil​
    Resulting in .08mil per yard or .16mil for the 2 yards in question.​
    Adding the .16 mil to the Kestrel's 25y 1.23 = 1.4mil solution.
    Without a calculator, you could have shot the post to get actual dope, or pulled the bolt and bore sited. remembering you have a 2.14MOA/.62mil impact window. That means if you dialed .1 or 1.9mils you would have impacted the pencil. If you had a good trigger press, you'd manage your misses, just like you do when you miss the edge of the plate. You don't adjust back a tenth or two to the edge of the plate you adjust all the way back at least to the center. So go .4 or .5 in one direction, then try the other. These were very easy if you set up high prone and did NOT have parallax issues or solved them by using the proper techniques.​
    Hopefully, if you're reading this and timed out or struggled this will expose you to a solution you might apply in the future.​



    PS. please, again, post the stages you might want to see what we thought was the best answer to the challenge.


    Check out the new AventalTactical.com website. The 2021 calendar for the Hunters series and PRS matches is up.

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    johnrice

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    Mar 19, 2018
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    what a awesome match, me and my son got our asses handed to us.
    6 mins flys faster than we thought. our first stage we thought we wre flying locating tgts , shooter 1 gets behind the gun sends one and times up.
    we look at each other and smile and say oh shit what did we get into.
    so we say to each other 'were not good enough to find and shoot all the tgts'. our plan moving forward was for shooter 1 to engage the 2 easy tgts while shooter 2 searches for the missing tgts and than the 2nd shooter would engage all tgts if time permitted. but evey stage was unique and did not really let us implement this plan to the extent we woud have liked. we had our perfect plan for evey stage after we shot it.
    i have tasted ukd team matches and now thats all i want to shoot. thanks for all your hard work.
     

    Swoodhouse19

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    Come out and shoot our hunter division. It’s gonna let you work on a lot of the things needed for better UKD results
     
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    johnrice

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    Mar 19, 2018
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    Come out and shoot our hunter division. It’s gonna let you work on a lot of the things needed for better UKD results
    i will, just not sure when i can come down at this time. but i will make down at least for a match.
     

    Diver160651

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  • Feb 7, 2013
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    Added a quick clip to the Trip Tips and tricks thread after talking about how I felt the off-hand stages in PRS matches were out of place in light of the tools we use today. Many of us carry a tripod when hunting, I usually pre-stage my height once approaching an area I think might be useful at the FFP.

    Anyway, the classic seating, kneeling and standing offhand, at a large 400y target as a stage in PRS/NRL; seems way out of place on our BR weight 6mms. With distance comes the opportunity to set up and since we have the tools why would we not use them?

    I have not seen anyone shoot this way (using tripod legs as front support) as a time-saving measure, but it works great; much like using the tripod as rear support, you either rest your forearm on your front hand, grasp the bipod for more recoil control or shoot it like any classic hunting rifle resting against a small tree or branch.

    I am shooting left-handed on a right-handed PCP to illustrate this (it has about the same recoil as a 6br). BTW It is much faster if you use the correct gun.
    Either way, the point is you just not need to shoot a long-range target off-hand; this method is certainly capable of very good accuracy.

    Here is another way to do almost the same using the tools we carry anyway. (This was already in the tips thread)

    Here is the link to the tripod Tips and Tricks post: Tips and Trick for using a Tripod in the Field

    99C21CF4-14A6-4D51-9E45-A198FAE4D308.png
     
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    Diver160651

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  • Feb 7, 2013
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    Looks like some people are interested in the loophole stage as well as a couple of others.

    The loophole stage had 5 main things we placed as “problems” teams should recognize and overcome for their setup.

    Some teams timed out without ever getting their gun on a tripod.

    I’ll write a debrief in a couple of days; I think if you take the time to read it, most teams will go crap, that would have been way easier.

    The hole in the cardboard was a distraction, the challenge was to be analytical about your team setup. The debrief will help in your next field challenge, even non-loophole stages. I’ll illustrate what I mean in the debrief.


    5337223C-DB4A-40D4-A222-B7C1FB54CA9E.png
     
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    seansmd

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    Looks like some people are interested in the loophole stage as well as a couple others.

    The loophole stage had 5 main things we placed as “problems” teams should recognize and overcome for their setup.

    Some teams timed out without ever getting there gun on a tripod.

    I’ll write a debrief in a couple of days; I think if you take the time to read it, most teams will go crap, that would have been way easier.

    The hole in the cardboard was a distraction, the challenge was to be analytical about your team setup. The debrief will help in your next field challenge, even non-loophole stages. I’ll illustrate what I mean in the debriefView attachment 7506037
    Once you figure it out, is like oh man, wtf! The challenge on this one was getting the better shooter set up and dialed in. The points on this stage we tilted heavy to shooter 1.
     
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    Diver160651

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    The Loophole stage and how we envisioned the easiest way to shoot it as a team~
    As I write this, we are getting reasonably close to 20,000 views; if you're reading this and haven't read the opening post with the index of field shooting tips and stage examples and briefs, I would encourage you to do so as it will help put this in context. Index of tips here

    I'll address the actual mechanics for near range interference clearing or loophole shooting near the end. The loophole in the cardboard was the distraction, not the real test of the team. It's worth emphasizing that other stages in this match utilized the team skills best used to conquer this stage, just as this one used skillsets from the other stages like the pencil stage. The goal was to assess the COF, the FFP and implement a strategy using tactics that would result in the most team points. This stage had the simplest COF in the match; only one distance for each shooter and their two targets were side by side, and the RO gave the location, allowing for a lot more setup time. The stage was worth 32 points, the same as all other stages, but shooter 1 accounted for a whopping 22 points. Below are images and COF the RO issued.

    Click on the images for larger view
    Loop Hole Tripod setup for the 900 yard target package.png IMG_2326-1.png


    Screenshot 12-22-2020 10.27.25.png
    As mentioned before, we are trying to use a time element to induce a bit of stress, simulating a real-world adrenaline situation. In these situations, especially like hunting as a team, the adrenaline can kick in and have the shooters forget small things that result in a blown shot. So once teams entered the makeshift room of orange and pink construction tape, more often than not, the teamwork and analytical thinking stoped. With 69% of the points weighted on shooter 1's performance, most teams understood that their "Strategy" should include getting shooter 1 as many hits as possible and choose their best and fastest shooter as Shooter 1. However, there was room for other variations such as skipping shooter 1's small targets and get hits on the larger 3MOA plates and putting the better shooter as shooter 2 to clean all closer, easier targets. For the sake of this debrief, I am going to discuss the tactics associated with the strategy of having shooter 1 attempting to maximize their points.

    rear view loop.png


    Strategy: Being analytical, working as a team focusing on shooter 1's points first.​
    1. Challenge - Know where to set up: Most teams got this right!
      • Know your SOB and the issues it can cause <60-yards. Past 60-yards to your 100-yard zero and a hair beyond; most fast-moving PRS style systems are not going to get into too much trouble as long as you make sure you have a couple of 1/10ths of clearance under the POA. Parallax could cause the shooter to think they are clearing the loop when, in fact, they are not.
      • Tactic-Solution: Set up as far back as you can, allowing the bullet path to come closer in line to your LOS for your POA. Place the target near the very top of the loophole and make sure you use scope shadowing to ensure your looking through your scope centered. (I'll address the general idea behind the math later).
    2. Challenge - Choose the correct loop stations: Missed by almost every team!
      • We counted on teams focusing so much on the loophole that they would skip being analytical, ignore the actual problems, and not use the tactics needed to achieve their desired results. Human nature seems to dictate that we put the person who will shoot first on the left side, but in this case, it was the more complex and taller of the loops to shoot through. The first breakdown was not having shooter 1 in the lowest, most stable seated position.
      • Tactic-Solution: Shooter 1 should have been in the seated position on the right side; it's faster to set up and more stable.
    3. Challenge - Know your setup height BEFORE you set your gear: Some teams struggled.
      • Many teams rushed into the FFP, looked at the loops without looking through them first, and set up their tripods, in some cases several feet too tall, wasting valuable time.
      • Tactic-Solution: You need to aline the target in the loophole with your eyes before setting up your tripod. Make a note of that height and set your tripod so that the gun's scope should be at the same height you spotted through the loop. Using your partner as a visual aide is also helpful. Well, I've repeated this, spot from the height you're going to be able to shoot from if there is any chance you'll find an obstruction along your bullet path or LOS once on the gun. You don't need to do your actual glassing from, let's say, a prone position, but you do need to do a final spot from that height before you set up, ensuring that you do not have either LOS issues or obstructions that would render your position inadequate. You use this same tactic hunting and in many field matches.
    4. Challenge - Set your gear up as a TEAM: Missed by almost every team!
      • Six minutes, even though each shooter effectively had only one target to shoot, as the two were right next to each other, setting up the tripods to clear the loop takes time; working as a team was essential. Several teams timed out without shooter 1, even getting their gun on target.
      • Tactic-Solution: Shooter 1 needed to be the team's primary focus. Shooter 2 should have helped shooter 1 set up their tripod, helping with height adjustments as shooter 1 was on their scope, making the final adjustments. Shooter two had the close larger MOA targets and could have easily set up while shooter 1 was shooting. If shooter one finished before Shooter 2 set up full, then shooter 1 could help with 2's final tripod adjustments. Communicate clearly and efficiently to your partner as they make the adjustments.
    5. Challenge - Know your tripod: Some teams struggled.
      • Shooting to avoid near range obstacles involves precise tripod movements. This is the rare case where a tripod with a center column is beneficial as height adjustments are easy. In this case, part of the workaround is to use your partner to help, as mentioned above. But how you set your tripod is the key.
      • Tactic-Solution: This is a case where a rear-facing tripod leg is beneficial. If you haven't, check out Tripod field tips here and see where, when and why a rear-facing leg, is helpful. In this case, like the others, it all about speed to fine-tune your tripod height. It's is easier to reach, easier to adjust, and more than two times as fast.
    The take-away for future team matches: Listing to the ROs, analyze the FFP, think as a team, and look for problems outside the obvious. Ask the ROs if you see a solution to a problem not specifically listed, it just might be the key to the stage.
    The application for the hunters: Communicate your plan before approaching your FFP, look for near range obstructions like limbs or tall vegetation that might cause bullet at interference, especially under your LOS. Either way knowing the rough path of your bullet will generally give you more confidence to shoot through small openings in trees and vegetation.​

    The goal of the stage, reinforcing the value teams working as a cingular unit, is to get the shooters to visualize the effects of angular units on our everyday shooting.
    The math basics were covered pre-match, in the Loophole stage spoiler but I am reposting it here again.

    First, think of the loophole as a near range target with a secondary target at the end. So, let's use the very same base number for the reticle ranging stage. 27.78 is the number used to mil range targets in the distance using inches of target height - (Target size in inches x 27.78) / Mils = yardage
    1. Let's rearrange that formula slightly to get the mil size of a target. In this case, we'll use a 2" target (or opening) and known yardage.​
    1mil = 3.6” @ 100y​
    100mil = 3.6” @ 1y or 3’​
    3.6” is 0.2778 of 1”​
    100mil x 0.2778 = 27.78​
    27.78 mil per 1” opening @ 3’​
    At 12’ (3’x4) it is : 27.78 / 4 = 6.945mil per “ of opening​
    2” opening at 12’ measures 13.89mils​
    The formula shows us our operational window, even if it is too close to the reticle measure clearly via our scopes.​
    2. Using your solver, set the target distance to the distance of the obstruction. We need to find out what problems the distance creates for or SOB and the bullet arc at the loop wall. This will show you just how low the center of your projectile will be below your POA.​
    Here I set my target distance to 12' or 4 yards to see how many mils below my crosshairs the bullet's center​
    loop image from ballisticARC.png
    3. Account for your bullet width.
    At 12 feet or 4 yards, 6.5mm bullet is .264" or 1.83mils thick; we need to be concerned with the bottom half in this example.​
    6.5mm at 12' is 1.83mils​
    1.83mils / 2 = .915mils​
    4. Account for your bullet width.
    The loophole wall AKA near target distance is set to 12' or 4 yards to see how many mils below my crosshairs the bullet's center. The solver is saying 14.8mils. Then you need to ADD 1/2 the bullet from above, plus a bit for safety​
    14.8mils + .915= 15.72mils​
    let’s just say 17mils, for safety under my unaltered crosshairs to clear the lower part of the loop.​
    5. Subtract your come-ups from your intended target from the bullet path.
    Target @ 900Y = U6mils​
    17-6mils = 11mils​
    As long as I can see 11 mills under my targe I should be GTG - (remember the loop is 13.9 mils from that distance). That means you need to set up so the target appears in the very top part of the loophole.​
    But wait, some cases are not that simple; if the distance creates a larger come-up than the bullet path is at or about your LOS, you have to be concerned about the top of the loop. Let's say I am back further, and the target is further. Let's use 10y; at 10y, I only need U5.2, let's say U7 for safety. With a target at 1400 yards, I'd need U13. Now your safety is also above the crosshairs with maybe 10mils (8mils + 2mils for safety), as well as below.​
    Or you can use a program like FFS and all the math is done for you. But really the thread is about understanding a bit more and, if nothing else, just to get you to think how all these parts work together.​


    Please visit AvenalTactical.com for the 2021 schedule. Monthly hunter & PRS matches, Two-day National matches, and the UKD Team Field Match for 2021

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    seansmd

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    This was an interesting stage for us, we had my partner as shooter 1 and recognized the point disparity. We had him set up on the left I don't remember why, the targets are left of the shooter 2 targets and higher in elevation, so not sure what had us position him on the left. We strategized before hand to have us coarsly set up the tripod and use our fist on top of the tripod with thumb up to align the height in the loop. This provided rough site over bore and near field parallax removal(rifle parallax was dialed for target distance not barrier). Aligning the top of the thumb at the top of the loop and centered provided the starting point for mounting the rifle in the tripod and making fine tune adjustments. As my partner was on the rifle through glass I made fine tune adjustments to his tripod height based on his requests. We did chew up a lot of time in the process. Despite this my partner was able to start sending his targets and I transitioned to my setup on the easier target package and ffp. I was setup and sending targets as he was finishing his string. Neither of us impacted the barrier, but neither of us but many targets either. 😃 Fun stage to break down
     
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    todd

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    This was our first stage of the day. We had practiced loophole shooting with 22's a couple of times prior to the match, so we had a basic understanding of the logistics of shooting the stage. While on the clock however, being the first stage of the day, things didn't go quite as well as I had envisioned. We both hit some targets, but after the stage was over we looked at the cardboard, and lo and behold, I had hit the cardboard with three of my shots and I took the subsequent zero for the stage. Once I saw the cardboard strikes, I immediately knew where I had erred - I didn't have the target all the way at the top of the loophole, I had only set up with the target about 2/3 of the way up in the loophole. I knew better and should have not done that. Lesson learned.
     

    Diver160651

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    @KnowNothing256 PM'd me about a post in the thread where I was told or thought I was told, the shooter rented his RRS for $25 for the week. I searched and did not find an RRS rental that cheap; I did see a week for $72, and off-brands for as low as $25 a week; but never heard of the place. I edited the original post.

    The best reputation from other Western Hunters I've heard is, Rent Guns and Gear out of Idaho. Contact Us – Rent Guns and Gear (rgunsngear.com) They have a generous "keeper Program" that allows you to apply something like 7 days worth of rentals back towards your purchase. Basically, you can rent the RRS for a tripod for 7 days for something like $120, but if you buy it, that money is applied towards your purchase. They have a lot of different tripods, but the inventory is understandable shallow in any particular model. The reason I know about them is NOT tripods but for their glass program. Let's say you can't decide between the Leica, Vortex, and Swaro binos or even 2 binos with different power, you could rent 3 binoculars for 2 days each and apply all 3 rentals (6 item-days) toward the chosen item. Or you could rent two pairs of similar binoculars for 3 days and apply the combined 6 days of rentals toward the purchase of one item. It is a great way not to have buyers remorse on a 2-3,000 spend.

    I've also seen some 90 or 100 days same as cash programs.

    I think what I really want to add is a general disclaimer. While good tripods have changed our ability to shoot with accuracy when forced to shoot high prone to standing while in the field, been a game-changer if you shoot field style matches; they are not needed by everyone. Before you run out and drop coin on a tripod or worse yet cheap out and get something crapy just to have one, be honest with yourself. Do you shoot or aspire to shoot away from you're home range and in natural terrain, do you hunt where a long-range elevated shot might be needed, and or, are you interested in field-style matches. If you answered no to all of these, then maybe they is not a "need" to get a top-end shooting tripod; however, if you still want a nice one, get one. Just don't be tempted to get something sub-par because you think you need one, the struggle to learn how to shoot a sub-MOA group, isn't worth the few hundred dollars you think you save, when barrel wear + the cost of a bullet, and your time is well over $2 round.

    Anyway, I think 2021's date is up on Practiscore. Here is more about 2021 UKD Team Field Match | Avenal Tactical

    I think we'll make 2021 a bit easier BTW :)

    Give the post a like if you're interested in 2021 :)


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    KnowNothing256

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    @KnowNothing256 PM'd me about a post in the thread where I was told or thought I was told, the shooter rented his RRS for $25 for the week. I searched and did not find an RRS rental that cheap; I did see a week for $72, and off-brands for as low as $25 a week; but never heard of the place. I edited the original post.

    The best reputation from other Western Hunters I've heard is, Rent Guns and Gear out of Idaho. Contact Us – Rent Guns and Gear (rgunsngear.com) They have a generous "keeper Program" that allows you to apply something like 7 days worth of rentals back towards your purchase. Basically, you can rent the RRS for a tripod for 7 days for something like $120, but if you buy it, that money is applied towards your purchase. They have a lot of different tripods, but the inventory is understandable shallow in any particular model. The reason I know about them is NOT tripods but for their glass program. Let's say you can't decide between the Leica, Vortex, and Swaro binos or even 2 binos with different power, you could rent 3 binoculars for 2 days each and apply all 3 rentals (6 item-days) toward the chosen item. Or you could rent two pairs of similar binoculars for 3 days and apply the combined 6 days of rentals toward the purchase of one item. It is a great way not to have buyers remorse on a 2-3,000 spend.

    I've also seen some 90 or 100 days same as cash programs.

    I think what I really want to add is a general disclaimer. While good tripods have changed our ability to shoot with accuracy when forced to shoot high prone to standing while in the field, been a game-changer if you shoot field style matches; they are not needed by everyone. Before you run out and drop coin on a tripod or worse yet cheap out and get something crapy just to have one, be honest with yourself. Do you shoot or aspire to shoot away from you're home range and in natural terrain, do you hunt where a long-range elevated shot might be needed, and or, are you interested in field-style matches. If you answered no to all of these, then maybe they is not a "need" to get a top-end shooting tripod; however, if you still want a nice one, get one. Just don't be tempted to get something sub-par because you think you need one, the struggle to learn how to shoot a sub-MOA group, isn't worth the few hundred dollars you think you save, when barrel wear + the cost of a bullet, and your time is well over $2 round.

    Anyway, I think 2021's date is up on Practiscore. Here is more about 2021 UKD Team Field Match | Avenal Tactical

    I think we'll make 2021 a bit easier BTW :)

    Give the post a like if you're interested in 2021 :)


    View attachment 7558666

    Thanks for the clarification! Google landed me at Rent Guns and Gear when I did some searching too, but I didn't know about the rent-to-own kinda thing they have, thanks for that info too!
     

    Diver160651

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    Hi guys the 2021 Date is set! It November 21, 2021: Visit Avenal Long Range Tactical Match | PRS and NRL22 matches long-range matches | PractiScore Scroll down on the left side to select the UKD Team Match.

    You can learn more by visiting the website here Home | Avenal Tactical
    Don't forget to check out the monthly Hunter Division as well as the PRS matches

    This year we'll make some of the targets a bit easier to find and include a few non- tripod stages, like using big boulders.

    Also, let us know if you have a favorite stage you'd like to see again. We will have a Saturday sight-in and a Saturday night camp out. We get a lot of Hide guys love to see more!!

    Jim

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    ceruleanblue

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    I think that technique works well when the target is separated with some space but in front and behind. I think it falls down when you have a lot of items creating dead space relatively close and hard to define, especially when targets are at ranges where they are very distance sensitive.

    Here is an example, where scan mode really is no substitute for a controlled beam on a tripod. There are tons of rollers hiding dead space, yet it looks relatively flat.
    View attachment 7305475
    But I am jumping the gun on this one. I want to start tripods before I dive too deep on the PLRFs, but maybe I should rethink the order?
    B
     

    ceruleanblue

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    I think that technique works well when the target is separated with some space but in front and behind. I think it falls down when you have a lot of items creating dead space relatively close and hard to define, especially when targets are at ranges where they are very distance sensitive.

    Here is an example, where scan mode really is no substitute for a controlled beam on a tripod. There are tons of rollers hiding dead space, yet it looks relatively flat.
    View attachment 7305475
    But I am jumping the gun on this one. I want to start tripods before I dive too deep on the PLRFs, but maybe I should rethink the order?
    Beautiful photo.
     
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    Diver160651

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    Although not a team match, this is the first true field match I've seen in deep Southern California. Might be worth checking out


    Contact @hic28 for more info. He's a content contributor on this thread and a very experienced field shooter! They are going to have a novice classification and will encourage coaching!
     
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    MarinePMI

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    Although not a team match, this is the first true field match I've seen in deep Southern California. Might be worth checking out


    Contact @hic28 for more info. He's a content contributor on this thread and a very experienced field shooter! They are going to have a novice classification and will encourage coaching!
    Ranges go out to 1900yds. A desolate place, but very nice place for LR shooting. A metric shit ton of steel targets scattered out amongst the ravines, ridges and gullies....
     
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