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Well this is hot!

sirhrmechanic

Command Sgt. Major
Full Member
Minuteman
GM battery powered cars factor catches fire because….

Wait for it….

Wait for it….

Wait for it…

Batteries in electric cars!


[Lets out hearty guffaw!]

Too bad it didn’t burn to the ground.

Sirhr

PS. I know “no refunds” is for vaxxed morons… but… “No refunds!”
 
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To be fair the problem came from human error..

“Our initial investigation indicates a forklift accidentally punctured a container with battery materials causing the fire,
 
To be fair the problem came from human error..

“Our initial investigation indicates a forklift accidentally punctured a container with battery materials causing the fire,
was it an accident?? ;)
 
I got two brothers working at the Tesla plant in Austin , Damm they pay good , don't see the union getting their foot in the door there. Musk is investing big time in the area , I'm retired , otherwise I'd be thinking bout joining the team .
 
Why owuld that matter? Regardless it was human caused and not a failure of the product itself. Not they they dont self ignite

the word sabotage is derived from 'sabot' which were wooden shoes workers would throw into the gears of machinery as protest during the early industrial revolution to stop production​

once again, was it an accident? Good way to get some time off right before Christmas.
and before people chime in, that could never happen... it has...
 

the word sabotage is derived from 'sabot' which were wooden shoes workers would throw into the gears of machinery as protest during the early industrial revolution to stop production​

once again, was it an accident? Good way to get some time off right before Christmas.
and before people chime in, that could never happen... it has...
.

Of course folks have done things on purpose but I see no indication of that in the article. just an assumption.. If it was intentional it would support my statement that it wasnt a product failure.
 
I never said product failure..
I said, "was it an accident?"
 
I never said product failure..
I said, "was it an accident?"
And that has absolutely nothing to do with the question of product failure vs human error (or intentional destruction).
 
And that has absolutely nothing to do with the question of product failure vs human error (or intentional destruction).
great way of backtracking...since I have NEVER mentioned 'product failure'.
you quoted..
Our initial investigation indicates a forklift accidentally punctured a container with battery materials causing the fire,
I said..
was it an accident?
you can rattle on (and you have) about how Electric car batteries are safe.. blah blah blah... or how they only have an XXX% of catching fire, blah blah blah
still comes back to...
Was it?
LOL
you better run out and check your electric vehicle... seems like this article hit close to home.
 
great way of backtracking...since I have NEVER mentioned 'product failure'.
you quoted..
Our initial investigation indicates a forklift accidentally punctured a container with battery materials causing the fire,
I said..
was it an accident?
you can rattle on (and you have) about how Electric car batteries are safe.. blah blah blah... or how they only have an XXX% of catching fire, blah blah blah
still comes back to...
Was it?
LOL
you better run out and check your electric vehicle... seems like this article hit close to home.
I'm done trying to reason with stupid. You keep up your rant. Tata
 
Accident or not, that is really not the issue. What happens if someone puts a fork through a gas tank on the production line. I would think it would be late in production that there would even be any gas in there. So I am thinking not a damn thing.

Just another example these things are dangerous all the way around.

Fast forward the clock 10 more years. Where are these cars (EV's) going to be sitting. I doubt they will be in junk yards. Someone somewhere is going to need to pull the battery packs and do something with them. And I doubt you are going to be able to leave them lying in the country like they do with wind turbine blades. Do you think that is going to be free, or do you think there will be some kind of "fee" for disposal. Don't worry it will not be like when you get a new battery for your gas car, Here is my core and you get $20 off the price. He is my core (the old tesla) and you pay them an extra $10k to deal with the ticking time bomb that is the battery.

That is the issue at hand, it just proves again these things have no place....anywhere.
 
Ah it is all dangerous at some point, coal mines, lithium mines, hydrogen power, rocket power, petrol, humans are a failed creature sometimes.
Don't forget grain silos. I was growing up when those things seemed to be exploding on a daily basis.

They figured out how to lower the risk there. I don't think there is a way to lower the risk with the current battery tech, outside of over capacity the battery.
 
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A thermal runaway is an incident where one exothermal process triggers other processes, finally resulting in an uncontrollable increase in temperature

Well, explain to this idiot (me) how I could have a cold pack come in out of an airplane, discharged, but not too low just sitting on my bench start fire.

To a "normal" person if the battery is just sitting there not hooked to anything and catches on fire, then batteries do just catch fire.

I had them catch fire while flying, catch fire while charging, and the trifecta catch fire just sitting on the bench doing nothing.

Now they all are in ammo cans with the seals removes (so they can vent), and sitting on concrete.

That battery just decided it would catch fire.
 
Well, explain to this idiot (me) how I could have a cold pack come in out of an airplane, discharged, but not too low just sitting on my bench start fire.

To a "normal" person if the battery is just sitting there not hooked to anything and catches on fire, then batteries do just catch fire.

I had them catch fire while flying, catch fire while charging, and the trifecta catch fire just sitting on the bench doing nothing.

Now they all are in ammo cans with the seals removes (so they can vent), and sitting on concrete.

That battery just decided it would catch fire.
TomAto/ToMATO.......they heat up, vent, the heat is enough to ignite the things around them. Can't have fire without oxygen, hard to have oxygen in a sealed battery.

This is the equivalent argument of water heater vs. hot water heater. Why would you heat hot water? Because, if we didn't it would get cold!

Don't waste your time arguing. Just shake your head up/down, rolll your eyes, and walk away........
 
TomAto/ToMATO.......they heat up, vent, the heat is enough to ignite the things around them. Can't have fire without oxygen, hard to have oxygen in a sealed battery.

This is the equivalent argument of water heater vs. hot water heater. Why would you heat hot water? Because, if we didn't it would get cold!

Don't waste your time arguing. Just shake your head up/down, rolll your eyes, and walk away........

Why would it heat up? It was not charging or discharging.
 
shit happens. anyone stating that it can't, you just are not factoring in all the variables.

it reminds me of people saying nuclear plants can't have accidents. "there are safety mechanisms in place".....yeah, yeah. and yet, chernobyl, fukashima.......blah blah blah.

don't make declarative statements and you will be less likely to look foolish in retrospect.
 
The single most stupid fucking argument to this entire deal. Lets talk in circles so we don't talk about the original topic.

The age ole, well what about....................

I don't give a rat fuck about the pinto, we are talking about the huge issue around battery powered cars.
HUGE!!! HUGE!!!
It would help if you understood the topic before speaking about it.
 
Why would it heat up? It was not charging or discharging.
Here, this might help you better understand not just how a battery operates, but why the separator between the anode and cathode of a battery can lead to thermal runaway......


 
Take an old phone and hit it with a hammer. It will explode sounding like a shotgun going off and will be on fire. Call it thermal expansion or whatever. That fucker is burning.
 
Here, this might help you better understand not just how a battery operates, but why the separator between the anode and cathode of a battery can lead to thermal runaway......


So they catch fire on their own.

Got it.
 
Take an old phone and hit it with a hammer. It will explode sounding like a shotgun going off and will be on fire. Call it thermal expansion or whatever. That fucker is burning.

I've tried that about 5 times now when I've replaced my phone batteries.


It never catches fire. I just get crunchy shit out of the foil pack and toss it after a week.
 
Maybe with the purchase of every EV they should give away a fireproof bag to park them in?

like these but bigger


I guess I should ask the experts, if i put a lithium battery in a bag like in the Amazon link, and that battery decided to have a thermal runaway while in the bag, would that bag be successful in preventing anything sitting near the bag from catching fire?

Is the fire prevention power of said bags just a time issue? Meaning get a bag rated for the potential thermal runaway event your battery is capable of? or all bags work for all batteries?

I am currently in the steel ammo box on concrete floor storage plan for my lithium powered power tool batteries, read too many stories of them popping off in a garage and their thermal runaway events happening close to gallons of gasoline....

If the bags would be better, I might buy some
 
I was pretty into R/C touring car racing during the dawn of Lipo batteries, and back then then if you were charging packs at the the track every track mandated they be in a fire proof bag.
When plug in hybrids became a thing, I looked into the fire protection implemented around the batteries and found that there were none. I said to my wife, “a lot of people are going to have their houses burned down charging these cars in their garages.” That was ten years ago.
 
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Here, this might help you better understand not just how a battery operates, but why the separator between the anode and cathode of a battery can lead to thermal runaway......


So every battery has this, and do all the other lithium X batteries have this. Lifepo4 for example that my solar array is using for storage?

I am not sure why I get the feeling I am reading about smoking from an article by the tobacco funded by tobacco companies?
 
I've tried that about 5 times now when I've replaced my phone batteries.


It never catches fire. I just get crunchy shit out of the foil pack and toss it after a week.

Next time with your old phone battery, be sure you take the phone apart to make darn sure you hit the battery. Get nail, hammer, drive nail straight through battery. I have a feeling you will see some interesting results.
 
I was pretty into R/C touring car racing during the dawn of Lipo batteries, and back then then if you were charging packs at the the track every track mandated they be in a fire proof bag.
When plug in hybrids became a thing, I looked into the fire protection implemented around the batteries and found that there were none. I said to my wife, “a lot of people are going to have their houses burned down charging these cars in their garages.” That was ten years ago.
I got out of RC cars before lipo batteries, my day was the yellow, red, finally black cells. All nicads.

I started flying electric with a itty bitty GWS Tiger Moth, very small very light, still brushed and nicad battery.....but SMALL. Back when I worked at the "worlds foremost outfitter" the inventory guns had lithium batteries, very small. They changed all the guns out and are going to toss them. Ahh can I have them.....why? I want the batteries out of them. Sure. I flew that tiger moth on price scanner/inventory scanner batteries, so much less weight I had to add weight to the plane, but the flight time would be LONG.

Fast forward and I got out of "gas" planes and went all electric. 5' wingspan electric with 12cell batteries.

RC flyers of these big electric airplanes are IMHO the people that are the hardest on batteries. I have taken them out of a plane and be too hot to touch.

Have a real cool F9F Panther. EDF "jet". Battery gave up in mid flight and started trailing a stream of black smoke, If I was not worried about starting a forest fire it would have been real cool. Bridges of Toko-Ri. Got it down, hatch open and it is in there smoking and starting to melt the foam. Burned the hell out of my fingers but got it out and saved the plane.

Had one like I said just sitting there go up. Had one go up charging.

"Back then" they told us dunk them in really salty water for like a week or something then they are safe to toss. Well I shoot at home so I just shot them. As a side note I do not own an air rifle that will punch all the way through a pack like a 2200 3s, and I have some good airguns. I always found a 22lr to be the best for that, so little recoil you can really watch the show. Use the two wires + and + tie a knot and route it through your chain hanging your steel. Easy. Just make sure when the solder melts and the battery falls not to have anything that can catch fire right there. There is also a good bit of really nasty smelling smoke, I am sure that is good for you to breathe.

Quit flying when the FAA decided there is no difference between a 40" foam P40 and a 777 that is flying over the pacific ocean. I still have all my gear....in hope that sane people will one day see the stupidity of all this.
 
I understand the EV hate. If anyone is a “trad” car guy I guess I am. I also understand that battery tech is the current main issue.

If they weren’t so expensive, I would own a Tesla right now. It fits what I need daily extremely well even though I live in a mountainous area. I rode in a Model S once and I was smitten. Even the lowly Model 3 will wipe the floor with most any car you’ll come across.

I understand the societal issues. I understand the logistical issues. I understand the political issues. The US electric grid is in overall poor condition and mandating electric cars is a suicide pact.….this is true. But at one time when ICE cars were new and tech was burgeoning, getting fuel and oil was difficult. They got stuck. They broke. Early cars were the butt of jokes and received a lot of hate. A guy buys a car and all his buddies called him a fag and tell him that real men smell like horses. Change is hard. People are tribal.

Eventually horses became a hobby.

EVs are going to happen whether we like it or not. The hate is entertaining though so I don’t mind it, hell I join in at times…..I still wish for that Model S.

1703680408337.jpeg
 
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EVs are the “CDs” of our time. Everyone with half a brain cell knew that CDs were a stop-gap for the inevitable: digital downloaded music.

EVs in their current form are completely unsustainable for the mass market. Yeah they are made to sound great on paper because they’re being propped up by the government and by folks pretending that what is happening with one percent of drivers can be made to happen for 99% of drivers.

The battery technology simply isn’t there, and quite frankly I’m not sure that battery power is where we end up. I think it’s just a stop gap.

We don’t have the infrastructure for battery cars and I don’t think we can get there. Then there is the matter of the materials to make the batteries and the mines themselves. Hell, the same environmentalist that are protesting in favor of EV cars are protesting against the very mines needed to get the battery raw materials.

Every bit of an EV car is currently made with fossil fuel. Studies have shown that EV cars take a tremendous amount of miles to get to a point where it become carbon neutral. Most will never see that kind of mileage.

What is the destination? I don’t know but I think they’ll come a day when we’ll look back on the folly of electric cars and realize it was way overblown and anyone with half a brain cell could tell that it was not the endgame.
 
rechargeable cars is still in its experimental phase. they should work on it more. Not saying it will still be invested but i am just pointing the obvious.