Range Report Applied Ballistics Kestrel; Pro staff support thread
- Thread starter BryanLitz
- Start date
Applied Ballistics Kestrel Support Videos
Considering the vast network of support utilities available for the AB Kestrel, I've created a few short instructional videos to provide some guidance as to their intent, set up, and use. Here's a snapshot of what I mean by 'Network' of utilities. These things have been discussed in this thread, but pictures are worth 1000 words:
These first two videos introduce the network of utilities which augment the use of your AB Kestrel, and show how to establish a BlueTooth connection with your PC. The big thing here is showing how you can create gun profiles in the Profile Manager and transfer them to your Kestrel. Also, it demonstrates how you can use other AB programs such as the website calculator (Ballistics Calculator | Applied Ballistics, LLC) and the AB Analytics package (AB Analytics) to create gun profiles and view trajectories prior to sending to your AB Kestrel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxswLkKPs8Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAMM07YRERo
This next video shows how to update the firmware on your AB Kestrel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCEb4ajmPNE
Finally, this video shows how to set up your AB Kestrel with the Kestrel Companion app for android. My bad for not showing the full capabilities of this unit including wind capture, etc. Those features are covered in the instructions for the Kestrel and the Companion app.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-TK7iQ6mu0
My intent was just to get thru the hard part of installing the software and getting it to work. There's plenty of videos showing the use of AB Kestrels in the field.
Here's a good video from Ryans Range Reports showing the set up of the gun profiles and general use of the AB Kestrel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss-h9lYk3nQ
Take care,
-Bryan
Considering the vast network of support utilities available for the AB Kestrel, I've created a few short instructional videos to provide some guidance as to their intent, set up, and use. Here's a snapshot of what I mean by 'Network' of utilities. These things have been discussed in this thread, but pictures are worth 1000 words:
These first two videos introduce the network of utilities which augment the use of your AB Kestrel, and show how to establish a BlueTooth connection with your PC. The big thing here is showing how you can create gun profiles in the Profile Manager and transfer them to your Kestrel. Also, it demonstrates how you can use other AB programs such as the website calculator (Ballistics Calculator | Applied Ballistics, LLC) and the AB Analytics package (AB Analytics) to create gun profiles and view trajectories prior to sending to your AB Kestrel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxswLkKPs8Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAMM07YRERo
This next video shows how to update the firmware on your AB Kestrel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCEb4ajmPNE
Finally, this video shows how to set up your AB Kestrel with the Kestrel Companion app for android. My bad for not showing the full capabilities of this unit including wind capture, etc. Those features are covered in the instructions for the Kestrel and the Companion app.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-TK7iQ6mu0
My intent was just to get thru the hard part of installing the software and getting it to work. There's plenty of videos showing the use of AB Kestrels in the field.
Here's a good video from Ryans Range Reports showing the set up of the gun profiles and general use of the AB Kestrel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss-h9lYk3nQ
Take care,
-Bryan
Wow, I got mine in the mail today my first thought was that maybe the box was something other than the 4500, it was so light. Once I opened the box it was the 4500 and this thing is unexpectedly small, or at least smaller than I expected, in fact my Galaxy S4 is larger. Bryan thanks for the timely tutorials and getting started items.
ok I been using strelok and my numbers are off.. when I put data in to make 1000 yrd dead on my 600 is low.(close). messed and messed with it and was told to use applied ballistics. So i have the app. now and am having trouble.. would someone walk me threw it.. give me their data used .. here is what I am shooting 42 gn H4350 lapua brass 140 gn hybrid (618 bc) In strelok to get it close I have to use 2750 fps and a bc of 550 .. Its a 24 in barrel 1/10 twist .. shooting 1000 ft elevation in ohio in summer 1.75 scope height.. I dont know powder temp .. divination,,, and so on.. im at 32,25 moa at 1000 and 13 moa at 600 ..17 moa at 700 .. I have shot an advance LR sniper course and have had some high scores.. but have to use to sets of data.. one to 600 and one from 700 to 1200
Norton Antivirus says that this file Profile loader is acting suspiciously as I try to extract the zip file and is recommending that I block it, its recommendation is based upon heuristics can you confirm that it is in fact safe to use?
Whats the powder temp for h4350?
Yes - I can confirm it is safe. I wrote it. Don't worry - there is no malicious code in there!
Rusty - try the web site first: Ballistics Calculator | Applied Ballistics, LLC
See if you can get your data to match up. Don't tweak the BC at all - just use what we have in there for those rounds, if they are listed and try 2750 fps on your muzzle velocity. Ensure that you have good data for all of the parameters in there. If you don't know pressure - put in 28.05 for your location in Ohio and 50% humidity. Be sure to set wind direction and wind speed.
Once you've done that, check your drop data against the chart. If there's not a match, post your parameters here via a screenshot of the ballistics application and we'll work through this.
-Nick
Powder temp is just referring to how hot your ammo is. Powder burns faster and generates higher MV when it's hot. The two inputs in the app (MV variation and powder temp) work together to correct your MV based on temperature. For example, if you measured your MV to be 2650 fps at 60 degrees F, 60 degrees is the powder temp. Then if you know the MV changes by 0.5 fps per degree (that's the MV variation), if you're shooting in 80 degrees (20 degrees hotter than where you measured MV), then it will apply a correction: 20 degrees times 0.5 fps/degree = 10 fps, so it will use 2660 fps as your MV corrected for the warmer temperature.
The Hodgdons extreme powders (like H4350) are typically very temperature stable and don't require much adjustment, if any at all. If you leave these fields (Powder temp and MV variation) blank the program will always use the MV you input, un-adjusted.
As for your predictions being off, there are several things I can recommend checking.
One is that your scope is moving accurately. For this you'll want to do the tall target test. Read here how to do this: http://appliedballisticsllc.com/AB_app.htm
Another thing to check is to verify the target ranges.
Finally, for the bullet you're using, you should be using a G7 BC of 0.317. Make sure you've selected the G7 drag model, and the number 0.317.
If none of these things solves your dope, please contact me by email and I'll work more with you on it.
-Bryan
[email protected]
msmith64,
The software is safe, some antiviruses get nervous about downloading .zip files. I don't know of anyway a virus could have gotten into the downloads.
Yeah, I have to agree with the guys - trying to second guess things like this is what makes me think of the old line "Garbage in, garbage out" (all respect here, but just saying you'll beat yourself to death with this approach. You need to find out why your input data is wrong - don't try to manipulate the data you DO have right to make the results fit).
140 gn? So you are using a .260 of some colour? Is that ok with 1:10 twist (I only have a 6.5x55 with 7.8" twist, just asking the question)
Take the BC (G7 = .317) and use it as a G7 value in the app - don't even consider changing it unless you know what you are doing - and then don't
Find the velocity with a DECENT chrono and use it - ok, you can play with this a VERY LITTLE BIT if it's very HOT or COLD.
Until you're close forget the temp dependency for velocity for a while (within reason).
But the other parameters are all quite important:
Like scope height.
Actual click values on the scope rather than the nominal ones.
Real ranges, including inclination/declination.
Zero (make it 100 yards/meters to reduce atmospheric issues)
G1 (.618) v G7 (.317) values and use it with the correct drag curve.
Atmosphere (esp the old station pressure v corrected), and
UNITS!!!! Make sure they are correct
(I screwed up here once, which I will explain to show you how easy it can be to go wrong)
I had gotten a new MOA scope and had the AB set to 1/8 MOA clicks. I knew the scope was 1/8 MOA clicks, but the markings around the turret were MOA (1, 2, 3, 4 ...).
In the heat of the moment I started to use the values on the turret as 10's of clicks rather than MOA (which is 8's of clicks) (I had gotten used to MIL scopes).
So, when AB said 120 clicks (when I should have put in 120/8=15 MOA) I was putting 12 (as 12 x 10) on the scope instead of 15.
Sounds a very basic mistake (it is!!), but it took me a while to figure out where I was going wrong.
I now use MOA in AB for that scope, not 1/8 MOA clicks and interpolate (if it says 12.5 MOA, I put in 12 + 4 clicks)
I still cannot believe I was that stupid.
So - double/triple check everything.
Cheers, Farmer
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Yea,,its a 1-8 twist..advanced armorment barrel...i was thinking of my 308 its 1-10..thanks so much for the help
As long as it has Bluetooth, then it should not have any issue working with your Droid tablet.
I'm having issues using the profile loader on my PC.
After pairing with my computer and trying to load a profile to my kestrel, I get the following message: "Could not transmit profiles....Too many NAKs..."
If I try again I get the message: "Could not determine state of device...Check connection..."
I am using 64 bit windows 8.1 and have bluetooth v4.0 on my laptop.
I think I read somewhere about using bluetooth 2.0. Is that the issue? Just wanted to see what you thought before I chased the problem in the wrong direction.
Thank you.
After pairing with my computer and trying to load a profile to my kestrel, I get the following message: "Could not transmit profiles....Too many NAKs..."
If I try again I get the message: "Could not determine state of device...Check connection..."
I am using 64 bit windows 8.1 and have bluetooth v4.0 on my laptop.
I think I read somewhere about using bluetooth 2.0. Is that the issue? Just wanted to see what you thought before I chased the problem in the wrong direction.
Thank you.
It sounds like you probably have the right COM port since it's at least getting to the point where the loader is transmitting data back and forth with the Kestrel itself. You may want to try the Bluetooth settings on your Kestrel itself and try either high or low power settings on the power level. Also ensure relatively close proximity to your laptop as well.
If that fails, I'd give NK tech support (Joe) a quick call. He might be able to help you through it, though as you mention, it's likely the inherent BT drivers in Windows that are the issue. Therefore, you might have to pick up one of those cheap dongles.
-Nicik
Ya I may have to give someone a call. I double checked the COM port and have the BT on the kestrel on high sitting just inches from my laptop. I'm thinking it must be BT version.
Just a quick question here @ Mr. Burns is your phone or a tablet trying to connect with the kestrel at the same time? Are you able to download the profiles on the kestrel to the PC?
UPDATE: Fixed
I have a bad habit of leaving my laptop on and forgetting to restart it once in a while. Did some PC updates and restarted my laptop and now everything is working correctly and I am able to load profiles to my kestrel and transfer them from my kestrel to my computer.
I did this with the bluetooth on my phone turned off and again with it on and that had no effect on the connectivity.
I think this was just user error from neglecting to restart my laptop.
Thanks everyone for the help! This kestrel is an awesome product by the way!
Good deal - glad you got it working.
Thanks! It's reassuring and refreshing to own a product whose creators will stand right with the users and help us troubleshoot and actually care that we have a good experience with the product.
Thankyou for the videos very helpful.
AB Tactical for DoD civilians?
Sorry if this has already been covered or if this isn't the correct thread. But I searched the forum and the AB site and didn't find the answer. Is AB Tactical for Android available to DoD civilians who have a current .mil email account and a valid Common Access Card (ID) showing DoD as their agency/department? I assume the answer is yes since the AB site specifies a .mil email account as the criteria. But I wanted to check before ordering it.
Sorry if this has already been covered or if this isn't the correct thread. But I searched the forum and the AB site and didn't find the answer. Is AB Tactical for Android available to DoD civilians who have a current .mil email account and a valid Common Access Card (ID) showing DoD as their agency/department? I assume the answer is yes since the AB site specifies a .mil email account as the criteria. But I wanted to check before ordering it.
Yeah, if you send from a .mil address, that's sufficient. We don't need your DoD ID. I know that is against policy now. If you have questions - hit me up. [email protected]
I had asked before were to get the custom drag curves and was told in the app store. I can not find them. Can someone help with this? A how to video on getting the drag curve to all devices would be great also. A 2 minute video can save so much time and frustration. To some this stuff is simple but to others it is rocket science.
Sounds like you are referring to one of the apps. Android or iPhone? If you're referring to the Kestrel, then Bryan posted a bunch of links to the YouTube videos that he did.
Look above the gun loader utility has the custom curves in it. down load that to your PC then create the gun profile with the Custom curve and transfer it to your kestrel
I run the licensing, so no worries.
Just putting in a plug. If you are on the fence about the ab kestrel, buy it. The custom curves, with pproper velocity from my magnetospeed, has yet to be off. From 105 hybrid to 300 otm, custom curves are fantastic.
Sorry if this has been coverd before, I tried to search and read half is thread but can't find it......
Is there a way to account for a scope correction factor in the AB kestrel? I've done a tall target test and need to dial 20.2 MIL to impact on a 20 MIL line at 100yds. The only way I can find is to slow my muzzle velocity down to true it but I would prefer to input a CF like can be done on the iPhone version of the software....read the directions twice and I see no mention of correction factors.....am I blind?
Is there a way to account for a scope correction factor in the AB kestrel? I've done a tall target test and need to dial 20.2 MIL to impact on a 20 MIL line at 100yds. The only way I can find is to slow my muzzle velocity down to true it but I would prefer to input a CF like can be done on the iPhone version of the software....read the directions twice and I see no mention of correction factors.....am I blind?
The recommended approach is to use the DSF calibration for this. Calibrate your MV at some distance where you are dialing in some range in the supersonic - probably somewhere around 8-10 mils. Use the range that we recommend that is in the top right hand corner of that screen. Then, to reach out farther, use the DSF calibration. If you know that your correction factor is such that you need to increase the drop at 20 mils, go to the DSF cal screen. Increase the range until the drop is at 20 mils. From there, correct it to 20.2 mils (since that is what you dialed on) and then perform a DSF cal.
The DSF and the "CF" act identically. DSF only applies at ranges that are beyond where the round is at a slower speed than Mach 1.2.
I found the custom curves in the gun loader that was easy. And transfer to kestrel will be cake. Just wondering about getting the custom curves to my android phone. I saw something before the curves could be purchased for a couple bucks each. I am good with that just need to be able to find them. Thanks for the help guys.
You can access them in the ammunition library. Just build an ammo profile then on Drag model select custom and purchase drag curve.
Thankyou. That is easy. I don't see the berger 105 hybrid any idea when it will be added to the list of custom curves?
Sorry if it has been asked already: Can I use the AB Profile Loader on a Mac Laptop or does it just compatible with PC? I'm contemplating an AB 4500 with bluetooth but really want the ability to quickly create profiles on the computer and load them on the Kestrel rather than use the seemingly more difficult and tedious process on just the Kestrel. If I can't should that be a deal breaker?
If it helps I have an android phone and android tablet if those could be used to upload profiles in lieu of a PC. (We are a mixed family when it comes to technology Apple vs Android)
If it helps I have an android phone and android tablet if those could be used to upload profiles in lieu of a PC. (We are a mixed family when it comes to technology Apple vs Android)
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You can do it, but you need to run the loader a virtual machine. I described a procedure that worked for me using Windows 7 running in a Parallels Desktop 9 virtual machine in post #29.
I have the Kestrel 4500 with Applied Ballistics and so far have been very pleased with the device and the results I am getting from it. I am trying to understand the ballistics a bit better.
Thought experiment:
If I were to zero my rifle at a distance of say 500 yards wouldn't the direction of fire I use for my zero matter to some extent? If so, is there some way to input that data, and if not what is AB using along with current direction of fire to calculate Coriolis effect?
Exaggerated example:
I zero @ 1000 yards shooting due East, and then I am shooting later due West @ 1000 yards. If my understanding is correct there would be a fairly significant difference in the solution that you would get if you took direction into account between both shots? As far as I can tell, the Kestrel will use the current direction in the calculation, so I am guessing it has some built in reference point for the zero direction, but I have not found what that is.
As far as I know (and I may be wrong) there is no way to input the initial direction of fire for the zero.
By this logic if you zero at shorter distances the impact of direction become smaller and smaller. I suspect that @ 100 yards my ability to measure (and shoot) the grouping for the zero is less precise than the calculation adjustment required based on zero direction @ 100 yards. Again, this is why it is a thought experiment.
That being said, it seems like that it might be a nice/useful thing to have in the rifle input screen, especially for folks at the upper ends of the skill spectrum. For me I use ZO and ZH (DTA and multiple barrels and loads) and find them useful and it seems that if a ZD for "zero direction" were there, I would be likely to track that too. For that matter, something like density altitude for the zero might be nice as well, but that is another topic.
Thought experiment:
If I were to zero my rifle at a distance of say 500 yards wouldn't the direction of fire I use for my zero matter to some extent? If so, is there some way to input that data, and if not what is AB using along with current direction of fire to calculate Coriolis effect?
Exaggerated example:
I zero @ 1000 yards shooting due East, and then I am shooting later due West @ 1000 yards. If my understanding is correct there would be a fairly significant difference in the solution that you would get if you took direction into account between both shots? As far as I can tell, the Kestrel will use the current direction in the calculation, so I am guessing it has some built in reference point for the zero direction, but I have not found what that is.
As far as I know (and I may be wrong) there is no way to input the initial direction of fire for the zero.
By this logic if you zero at shorter distances the impact of direction become smaller and smaller. I suspect that @ 100 yards my ability to measure (and shoot) the grouping for the zero is less precise than the calculation adjustment required based on zero direction @ 100 yards. Again, this is why it is a thought experiment.
That being said, it seems like that it might be a nice/useful thing to have in the rifle input screen, especially for folks at the upper ends of the skill spectrum. For me I use ZO and ZH (DTA and multiple barrels and loads) and find them useful and it seems that if a ZD for "zero direction" were there, I would be likely to track that too. For that matter, something like density altitude for the zero might be nice as well, but that is another topic.
Its not any more complicated to build the rifle solution on the kestrel then it is on the p_c just smaller fonts
ANOTHER way to do it: install Windows 7 on a boot camp partition. Is stable/quick, particularly if you need to run some other Win specific programs (I do). You sorta get the "best" of both worlds without the intermediary of a virtual machine
This works too, and has the bonus that you don't have to pay for a copy of Parallels Desktop. Moreover, since Windows is running on "bare metal" you will get the most performance out of your hardware (like for games). However, the obvious downside is that the computer runs MacOS OR Windows, but not both at once. I use a VM because I need to cut/paste and otherwise share data between the two.
So in very simple language…I would need to purchase Windows 7 for Mac and run it partitioned? I don't do much on the Mac besides simple photo, and web stuff. Mac OS doesn't need to talk to Windows, and Windows would only be to run AB. Would I be better off just buying a cheap PC laptop for a few hundred bucks to run AB?
Or maybe even easier: just skip all that and do it all on the Kestrel…would I be losing much skipping the AB Profile uploader and getting a BT AB 4500? How would I get the custom bullet curves without having AB on a computer (which seem to really be what dials this thing in)?
Or maybe even easier: just skip all that and do it all on the Kestrel…would I be losing much skipping the AB Profile uploader and getting a BT AB 4500? How would I get the custom bullet curves without having AB on a computer (which seem to really be what dials this thing in)?
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Here's a quick tutorial I put together a while back.
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/Software/ABLoader-VMware.pdf
If you just do it on the Kestrel, the only thing you lose are the custom curves - which I really do recommend using if you can connect it.
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/Software/ABLoader-VMware.pdf
If you just do it on the Kestrel, the only thing you lose are the custom curves - which I really do recommend using if you can connect it.
If I want to ad a second rifle to my Kestrel do I have to send the one I already have loaded back to the profile uploader and then reload them both together? I though I read that if I just did a new rifle in the profile uploader and sent it over it would overwrite the rifle already saved. Seems like a bad way to do things. Is there a way to save the one already on the Kestrel so it can't be overwritten?
I have parallels on my mac with windows 8. Yes i had to pay for windows 8 and parallels. But i can tell you that parallels is easy to use. You have to weigh the cost/benefit of adding a "cheap" laptop (aka a second computer) to your collection versus an all in one, easy to use solution on your mac. No right or wrong way, just gotta pick one. My vote would be parallels and windows. If i get the AB kestrel in the future, i sure hope it is compatible with windows 8 (which sucks by the way). I love my mac!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I wish future AB kestrels support rely on simple operations (e.g. XML file push over OBEX) rather than a heavy OS-specific client software, to allow for native Linux and Mac hacks.
When faced with paying an OS license and running a full-blown virtual machine, just to support a piece of hardware, I chose the non-AB, non-Bluetooth version.
When faced with paying an OS license and running a full-blown virtual machine, just to support a piece of hardware, I chose the non-AB, non-Bluetooth version.
It's the serial port protocols over Bluetooth that require the Windows side of things versus the Mac. Otherwise, it's just sending bytes of data up to the Kestrel over a serial stream - nothing too special there.
In order to add a new gun to your Kestrel via the profile loader, you need to download all of the guns to your PC, keep a "local copy" of them, transfer from the PC to the Kestrel's "local copy" and then upload as a series of guns. So, technically, there is an extra step of pulling the existing guns first and then uploading them all as a group back to the device.
I saw this question earlier, but never saw an answer; When I am creating a profile in the gun loader, my preferences for output and units aren't being retained after I hit "save". They are stuck on "mixed" and "mils" whenever I reopen the profile. What am I doing wrong?
[MENTION=18711]BryanLitz[/MENTION] does Kestrel have any plans to release an iOS-compatible, BlueTooth version of the 4500? Is the current limitation hardware related, or license related due to MFi requirements? As an iOS engineer this seems like a huge market being left out.
What are the options for increasing the wireless connectivity between the Kestrel AB and the Companion app such that I can have one or more Kestrels several hundred yards out and collect wind velocity and direction on the Companion app? I saw the Ventus-RT but it is currently not available. Are there any other options? Thanks
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