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Range Report Applied Ballistics Kestrel; Pro staff support thread

Can some one walk me through the steps to get the wind firing solution ? More specifically. Capturing target degrees then capturing wind speed and direction in order to get the solution on the screen? How close is your final number to making hits? We shot yesterday out to 8ish and the wind was hitting 18 mph at times. My solutions were .6 off or more. I could never get the gizmo to understand where the wind was coming from in ordertogetthe correct value.
Thanks in advance
T
 
I got a quick and easy question to everyone.... Do you find yourself using "TMOA" or "SMOA" and why. I think I'll use "SMOA" because most of my shots are over 20 MOA.
 
TMOA is true moa And SMOA is shooters moa. The difference is TMOA is 1.046 at 100 yrds and SMOA is 1.000" at 100 yrds It all comes down to what your scope adjustment is not how far your shooting. Find out what your scope is and go with that.
 
Hi,

Well, the assumption is that the wind is constant across the whole path of bullet - which it almost never is, so it will never be perfect.
And wind varies all the time, but given that...

One trap for young players is that the kestrel "direction of wind" is relative to the current target direction (which is why I now use it in "o'clock" mode).

To associate the wind with a target:
In the Target screen, press "-" to enter into either the “WD,” “WS1” or “WS2” fields.
Press it again to get to "Capture"
Point the Kestrel into the wind (back of the unit towards the wind source).
Press "-" to start capture - wait a few seconds and press "-" to stop it.
It should show your solution for the WS1 and WS2 it captured/measured when you go back to the ballistics screen.
For that target it will always use that value.

From the ballistics screen:
Scroll down to "wind" and press "-" press "-" to enter into either the “WD,” “WS1” or “WS2” fields.
Point the Kestrel into the wind (back of the unit towards the wind source).
Press "-" to start capture - wait a few seconds and press "-" to stop it.
It should show your solution for the WS1 and WS2 it captured/measured when you go back to the ballistics screen.
The ballistics soln will be updated with that value.

The quickest way to do this is nicely summarised in the manual under "Quick keys: direction of fire & wind speed".
 
Hi,

Well, the assumption is that the wind is constant across the whole path of bullet - which it almost never is, so it will never be perfect.
And wind varies all the time, but given that...

One trap for young players is that the kestrel "direction of wind" is relative to the current target direction (which is why I now use it in "o'clock" mode).

To associate the wind with a target:
In the Target screen, press "-" to enter into either the “WD,” “WS1” or “WS2” fields.
Press it again to get to "Capture"
Point the Kestrel into the wind (back of the unit towards the wind source).
Press "-" to start capture - wait a few seconds and press "-" to stop it.
It should show your solution for the WS1 and WS2 it captured/measured when you go back to the ballistics screen.
For that target it will always use that value.

From the ballistics screen:
Scroll down to "wind" and press "-" press "-" to enter into either the “WD,” “WS1” or “WS2” fields.
Point the Kestrel into the wind (back of the unit towards the wind source).
Press "-" to start capture - wait a few seconds and press "-" to stop it.
It should show your solution for the WS1 and WS2 it captured/measured when you go back to the ballistics screen.
The ballistics soln will be updated with that value.

The quickest way to do this is nicely summarised in the manual under "Quick keys: direction of fire & wind speed".

Ok I get the capture part in wind and direction. After that do u capture target DOF? It needs to know where your target is in order to give he correct value? I'm I thinking correct?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Ok I get the capture part in wind and direction. After that do u capture target DOF? It needs to know where your target is in order to give he correct value? I'm I thinking correct?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yep - that's it - 'capture' the DOF and point the unit at the target and it will show you the windage.

Really - read that section in the manual - you do both straight after each other (I usually have multiple targets over a mountain, so I input and save the multiple targets).
 
I applied the recent update which removed all my gun profiles. I used the newest ABLoader to push 1 profile to the kestrel and it worked perfectly. Now when I go to add a 2nd profile, or even re-push the first one I get an error about 1/2 a thru transmission that staues "Could not transmit profiles... Too many NAKs"

Any ideas on how to resolve?

thanks
 
I am having the same problem. I know you don't want to hear this but it does work with the usb adaptor. Look on amazon you can get one for 70.00. And yes I know that is why you bought the Bluetooth version so you don't need that. Me also
 
I have had my 4500nv-ab for two weeks and getting better working with it every day. While programming it is see it version 37. Is this up to date or do I need to update it? I also bought online Bryan Lutz " putting rounds on target" DVD. It will be helpful to me as I like to learn more about LR shooting.

Thanks, Slug-O
 
I have had my 4500nv-ab for two weeks and getting better working with it every day. While programming it is see it version 37. Is this up to date or do I need to update it? I also bought online Bryan Lutz " putting rounds on target" DVD. It will be helpful to me as I like to learn more about LR shooting.

Thanks, Slug-O

The newest version is 4.80 iss check out post #72 on page 2, it has the links to update your kestrel. Bryans DVD's are good, you should check out his books too.
 
Tag for reference. Amazing stuff here. It is threads like this that make me look very hard at a Applied Ballistics Kestrel.

Interesting perspective, its threads like this that make me think either A its way to complicated, B its not quite ready for prime time in terms of software or C I may not be as smart as I thought I was :)
 
Interesting perspective, its threads like this that make me think either A its way to complicated, B its not quite ready for prime time in terms of software or C I may not be as smart as I thought I was :)

FWIW..Here's my perspective.

I am FAR from being computer literate. Don't even have a smart phone...have NEVER texted either. If I didn't do 32 as a cop i probably wouldn't be able to type either.

I bought the 4500 AB model as I have zero cell service locally, which includes both Ranges I use. So getting an app for my smart phone wasn't an option for me. When I use the Range at Gt Falls an app would work, but it's a 100+ mile round trip.

When mine came in I downloaded the manual and printed it out page for page. Gave me something to READ to learn the basics, as well as refer to when I have an issue. I found the 4500 really quite easy to figure out. SURPRISINGLY easy.
I added three guns one evening and by gun #2 it went MUCH quicker.

First day I had it out I was surely not using it as efficiently as possible...but I got to the info I needed and it gave me good solutions. Each Range trip it gets easier.

I wish Mr. Litz would do a "Here's the BEST way to use it" cheat sheet, or YouTube video.

Don't be afraid of the Kestrel...surprisingly easy to use.

FN in MT
 
Thank you that was very helpful, I've worked in the IT sector for the vast majority of my career so computers and technology are part of my DNA, so it wasn't that I was scared of the product. Its just that the level of questioning and software updates, apparent lack of a solid manual made me a bit apprehensive. Its good to know that my impressions may be unfounded, thanks for the feedback!

FWIW..Here's my perspective.

I am FAR from being computer literate. Don't even have a smart phone...have NEVER texted either. If I didn't do 32 as a cop i probably wouldn't be able to type either.

I bought the 4500 AB model as I have zero cell service locally, which includes both Ranges I use. So getting an app for my smart phone wasn't an option for me. When I use the Range at Gt Falls an app would work, but it's a 100+ mile round trip.

When mine came in I downloaded the manual and printed it out page for page. Gave me something to READ to learn the basics, as well as refer to when I have an issue. I found the 4500 really quite easy to figure out. SURPRISINGLY easy.
I added three guns one evening and by gun #2 it went MUCH quicker.

First day I had it out I was surely not using it as efficiently as possible...but I got to the info I needed and it gave me good solutions. Each Range trip it gets easier.

I wish Mr. Litz would do a "Here's the BEST way to use it" cheat sheet, or YouTube video.

Don't be afraid of the Kestrel...surprisingly easy to use.

FN in MT
 
Guys having used the Horus version (which I don't remember ever having an update) I can tell you that its a breath of fresh air to have the development team actually working on improving the applications and adding features.

Finally, just a note - it seems like there are lots of issues with pain around COM ports and bluetooth. I don't think this is a problem with the Kestrel unit, but instead the MS bluetooth stack which historically has been know to suck.

An easy way around it is to use the kensington USB Bluetooth adaptor - which comes with the Toshiba bluetooth stack - which makes dealing with Bluetooth MUCH easier.

Here is a link to a blog entry to help with identifying which COM port is the "correct" COM port if you find yourself having problems in this area:

Troubleshooting USB Bluetooth and COM port issues |
 
Thank you that was very helpful, I've worked in the IT sector for the vast majority of my career so computers and technology are part of my DNA, so it wasn't that I was scared of the product. Its just that the level of questioning and software updates, apparent lack of a solid manual made me a bit apprehensive. Its good to know that my impressions may be unfounded, thanks for the feedback!

If you work in the IT field this shouldn't be a foreign concept at all and the fact that the mfgr is here answering questions and updating regularly should be an indicator to you that it is indeed a solid product and your apprehension should be replaced with relief and confidence. Microsoft patches every month, and their manuals are written by idiots with big red crayons, often smeared with some drool. You Phone updates 2-3x/year.. more with android.

The unit is solid, the software works, and its getting better.
 
I will mention that I called Kensington today after double checking my link to the Micro USB bluetooth unit. The new 4.0 USB unit that replaces the one I have (and the one I link to) comes with the Toshiba software, but the most recent version on their website is not using the Toshiba software. They say it should still work with the Toshiba bluetooth stack and application - but I haven't yet tried it out.
 
I need help !
When finished transfering my profile to my Bluetooth device, the MV shows a square 91 m/s instead of 820 m/s. Any ideas ?

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
 
I need help !
When finished transfering my profile to my Bluetooth device, the MV shows a square 91 m/s instead of 820 m/s. Any ideas ?

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

yeah - bug, see here

You need to clear the temperature calculation and then you can add the proper V0.
The profile loader includes a zero fps temp value and confuses the unit.
 
NK + AB folks ...

I was just working with a user who has an older XP system. Unfortunately the "NK Bootloader" software doesn't have a document that outlines the requirements for the software (that I could find). I might be a good idea to update that pdf that comes with the software with a requirements section that contains supported versions of Windows and particular things that are required (like .NET framework versions). For example, this user has XP SP1, and no .NET framework, and was a bit confused when the installer wouldn't work.

Lastly, has there been any thought to integrating an uploader into your web app? Maybe via java - that would make it easy to:
1. upload the profile created on the AB ballistics resource page directly to the Kestrel
2. upload a profile from the mobile app - directly to the Kestrel (perhaps)

this would remove a need for a special application for Mac users since they could just do the work via the webpage or mobile app instead of running a particular Mac based app (though I believe a Java app would work on the Mac)...

Not sure how much development this would entail, since I don't have much background in web development...
 
NK + AB folks ...

I was just working with a user who has an older XP system. Unfortunately the "NK Bootloader" software doesn't have a document that outlines the requirements for the software (that I could find). I might be a good idea to update that pdf that comes with the software with a requirements section that contains supported versions of Windows and particular things that are required (like .NET framework versions). For example, this user has XP SP1, and no .NET framework, and was a bit confused when the installer wouldn't work.

Lastly, has there been any thought to integrating an uploader into your web app? Maybe via java - that would make it easy to:
1. upload the profile created on the AB ballistics resource page directly to the Kestrel
2. upload a profile from the mobile app - directly to the Kestrel (perhaps)

this would remove a need for a special application for Mac users since they could just do the work via the webpage or mobile app instead of running a particular Mac based app (though I believe a Java app would work on the Mac)...

Not sure how much development this would entail, since I don't have much background in web development...

Yes, I had the wonderful pleasure of going through an entire morning of updating my software. I am running Windows XP and I admit, it is an old system. But why should I have to buy an entirely new PC just to use my Kestrel?

The error messages were so much fun. Like "You need to download the latest Service Pack 2". 2 hours later. "You need to update your .NET Framework 4 software." 1 hour later. "You need to run WIC 32 prior to running .NET 4 Framework software". 30 minutes later. Then, it finally worked.

I cannot say enough good things about Frederic with Bison Tactical. Thank you sir.

Meanwhile, making the entire software program a web portal will rid you of ALL of these issues. Then, MAC users can take advantage of using a Kestrel.
 
Damn, Brian is on this forum. I'm reading the practical guide to riflemen, for some reason I am not finding it all that helpful. What I am getting out of that book is that you want the best equipment you can get your hands on. After you are the best shooter you can be, you still have to know your limitations.

edit: I do have a kestrel with applied ballistics, I should probably read the thread now.
 
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Brian or others involved,

When can we expect to have the complete library of your G7 BC's available in other apps like Ballistic AE and the Applied Ballistics app? Also, when do you foresee having custom drag curves for the berger hybrids like the .243 105 and the .264 140?
 
Shot a match with mine this last week and its definitely a cool toy, but I've got a few suggestions for software/usability I hope don't fall on deaf ears.

1-Increase the number of targets to program from 5 to 10, 6 targets on a given stage is not uncommon and 10 is pretty standard in larger matches

2-Add an option to link the target's wind bearing to the first target. Its rare that I've come across targets more than a few degrees difference in bearing on the same stage, while I realize this may trade a bit of scientific accuracy I think the expediency gained in a competitive environment will be worth it. The problem isn't so much having all targets show the same bearing, as it is that you have to manually tell every target what the bearing to the target is, and that is tedious and time consuming. I would rather enable an option to link them all so if I set the bearing on one target, or in a general direction, all the active targets then receive the same bearing information without my having to manually tell each one the same thing. You can see why that might be helpful, especially if you listen to suggestion number 1!

3-Using this guy as a range card hanging from your neck means its got a better chance of being dumped in the mud, water, sand, dirt, dust, etc. Maybe see about making a little protective case for it that leaves the buttons, sensor, and impeller exposed? Just a thought.
 
Shot a match with mine this last week and its definitely a cool toy, but I've got a few suggestions for software/usability I hope don't fall on deaf ears.

1-Increase the number of targets to program from 5 to 10, 6 targets on a given stage is not uncommon and 10 is pretty standard in larger matches

2-Add an option to link the target's wind bearing to the first target. Its rare that I've come across targets more than a few degrees difference in bearing on the same stage, while I realize this may trade a bit of scientific accuracy I think the expediency gained in a competitive environment will be worth it. The problem isn't so much having all targets show the same bearing, as it is that you have to manually tell every target what the bearing to the target is, and that is tedious and time consuming. I would rather enable an option to link them all so if I set the bearing on one target, or in a general direction, all the active targets then receive the same bearing information without my having to manually tell each one the same thing. You can see why that might be helpful, especially if you listen to suggestion number 1!

I agree with the more than 5 target option. Having targets "A" through "E" can not be enough. But, I would imagine that at that point you would be using a range card attached to your wrist, right?

On option 2 - I think that is already in the programming. If you go to "Wcap" you will find two options: "One tgt" or "All tgts". To get to that option, from the AB target menu (A-E), go to "Environment" and then scroll down to "Wcap". This will then take the one wind reading and either apply it to just that target or all targets. Did this answer your question? Trust me, I hate to even come close to being the student teaching the teacher, since you have been so helpful to me in the past.
 
Also, an FYI - Kestrel sells screen protectors - its a film like the ones for phones but maybe a bit more durable. I have it on mine to protect the screen since that seems to be the part most prone to non-aesthetic damage. I don't have any in stock, since I forgot to order them - but I will put some on my next order and make sure to keep them in stock. They are cut to be an exact fit to the screen which is a bit strangely shaped.

Other cases would have to leave all the sensors exposed, so not sure how functional they would be - but I am sure someone could come up with something :).
 
Multiple BC help.

Hi,

I'm trying to figure out how to put in multiple BC values, specifically for the 39 grain Sierras. Does anyone know how to do this with the Kestrel with Applied Ballistics...unit shows up friday.

thanks.
 
The newest version is 4.80 iss check out post #72 on page 2, it has the links to update your kestrel. Bryans DVD's are good, you should check out his books too.

Great call. I ordered the set and watched the first video so far... My "Pug" was not so impressed with your video Mr. Litz.....
 
After doing a tall target test of my scope, I need to enter a correction factor (0.981) but cannot seem to find where to do this. In another thread, it was called the SSF (Sight Scale Factor) but neither the Kestrel or my Profile Loader has this option. Anyone got some input on this?
 
I am have the latest (?) firmware version 4.78 and profile loader build 024 and I can no longer upload my gun list to the Kestrel, every time I attempt the upload it copies only one gun over. This issue has only appeared since I last updated things, is it a known issue?

This is the BT version.

EDIT - I just tried with the profile loader build 029 with same issue.
 
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I agree with the more than 5 target option. Having targets "A" through "E" can not be enough. But, I would imagine that at that point you would be using a range card attached to your wrist, right?

On option 2 - I think that is already in the programming. If you go to "Wcap" you will find two options: "One tgt" or "All tgts". To get to that option, from the AB target menu (A-E), go to "Environment" and then scroll down to "Wcap". This will then take the one wind reading and either apply it to just that target or all targets. Did this answer your question? Trust me, I hate to even come close to being the student teaching the teacher, since you have been so helpful to me in the past.

I appreciate the help. That works, and it doesn't. It will apply wind values captured with the photo button but not those you manually enter. Sometimes the wind is doing something different between where I'm standing and the target.

Example - standing at the base of a hill with the hill blocking wind at the shooter but exposed to the bullet for most of the flight path.

I'd like to be able to key in a 10moh FV wind, or whatever I think it is, and with the all target option checked have that wind applies to the other targets. Right now it only applies values captured by the device.
 
I am have the latest (?) firmware version 4.78 and profile loader build 024 and I can no longer upload my gun list to the Kestrel, every time I attempt the upload it copies only one gun over. This issue has only appeared since I last updated things, is it a known issue?

This is the BT version.

EDIT - I just tried with the profile loader build 029 with same issue.


Had the exact same problem....upgrade to 4.8 then I couldn't load more than one profile. Found a thread in here about the problem...Upgrade the loader to Ver 28 (I think) and all is well. I had do get my profiles out of the ver 24. They are in a folder labled profiles....
 
Upgrading to 4.8 and manually copying the profiles over seems to have resolved the issue and yet again the AB was spot on for 800/1000 and 1200 yards with my 6,5x47 with custom pointed 123 Scenar's. I find myself using the 4500AB as much as a ballistic computer as a wind meter.
 
After doing a tall target test of my scope, I need to enter a correction factor (0.981) but cannot seem to find where to do this. In another thread, it was called the SSF (Sight Scale Factor) but neither the Kestrel or my Profile Loader has this option. Anyone got some input on this?

Did you ever find an answer to your question? I have this same issue and would like to enter a different mil value to correct for my scope. Thanks, Greg
 
Upgrading to 4.8 and manually copying the profiles over seems to have resolved the issue and yet again the AB was spot on for 800/1000 and 1200 yards with my 6,5x47 with custom pointed 123 Scenar's. I find myself using the 4500AB as much as a ballistic computer as a wind meter.

What BC are you getting out of the 123's after pointing? Trying to decide if that's worth undertaking
 
What BC are you getting out of the 123's after pointing? Trying to decide if that's worth undertaking
I do not have the BC details to hand however from memory the change at 1000 yards for me is 0.25 mils on a warm day at just above sea level. The original meplat size on the last batch of 123 Scenar I opened was around the 0.082" mark which was huge. I build my own pointing die inserts which can close the meplat right down however I usually stop at around 0.042"

Not only do I see an improvement in vertical dispersion, general wind calls seem to be a bit tighter and I am less prone to see the odd 'unexplained' shot that used to catch me out with the un-pointed Scenar.
 
How close are your guys velocity with a chronograph and what the Kestrel is using for it's solution. For example my rifle is pushing a 6.5 142 sierra at 2800 and my real world dope is 7.9 mils at 960 yards. The kestrel moved my velocity to 2720...
 
Zero Data 4500AB

Little concerned about my dope...

Day 1: Zeroed rifle, kestrel on hand, recorded DA and other parameters. 20 degrees, 1760 elev.

Day 2: At different range, 45 degrees, 1950 elevation. Doped rifle at 1000 yds entered data into "Calculate MV"

There is no place to enter zero atmosphere (and understand why according to Litz's earlier thread comment). Little concerned that when I go to 9000+ elevation for hunting that my data is not going to be correct. Does the 4500AB calculate the necessary adjustments for any given DA based on the "Calculate MV" data entered? What happens if I re-zero my rifle at 9000' (cuz I am a klutz and drop my rifle) and dont have the opportunity to "calculate MV"? Will the data work the same? Doesnt seem likely since it will be a different temp, baro, etc and therefore different MV. Is it me or does something feel like it is missing? I have read and re-read the instructions looking for that little golden nugget of information and so far nothing sends protons through the conductor and making the proverbial the light bulb come on.

In another scenario...zeroed rifle one day at above range, went to 1kyd range and "calculated MV" at 1kyd with totally different atmospheric. About 2 weeks later shot in a match yet again, completely different atmospheric conditions. The Kestrel told me -.1 MOA for 100yd shot. My bullet impacted 1" low of the mark.

Yesterday went to the range to re-zero after dropping my rifle. Kestrel read (again) -.1 MOA for 100yd shot. Uhhhh...i just re-zeroed, it should be 0.0. Checked windage number and all were at zero. Wouldnt it be easier to have an option to either A- enter zero data manually, B- hit a button that says "New Zero" (or some other clever name), or C- All of the above. From little use, seems like a great product but know several shooters who are hesitant to purchase for the simple reason(s) listed above.
 
Fix for "too many naks" error of uploading profiles to kestrel.

Bought a kestrel 4500 Bluetooth version a little over a week ago. Seems to work great except when uploading profiles from pc to kestrel. It would start to load and after a bit would give me a "too many naks" error. I Googled and found thread on the hide to make sure to upgrade firmware to 4.80. Mine was already 4.80.

I called Joe at NK and he was very helpful! We couldn't get to fix so he mailed me new unit immediately. Still same issue. He then found that on my fairly new Internet Explorer 8 machine that I had the Bluetooth version 4.0. So he immediately sent me overnight a USB 2.0 Bluetooth. Right click on Bluetooth 4.0 and disable and then insert Bluetooth 2.0 and worked like a charm.

Tremendous support from Joe at NK! He told me to post his contact info for anyone needing help with this. 1-800-784-4221 ext 130 or [email protected].