Field Match: Tips, Tricks and Stage Examples for - UKD Team Challenge Match 11/22/2020

johnrice

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Mar 19, 2018
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I understand the solution to the problem that was presented, just trying to get a grasp so I can apply it on my own in future situations.
 

johnrice

Sergeant of the Hide
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Mar 19, 2018
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Oh I remember now, was not a podcast. It was Jacob's at rifles only online training. That had the loophole class
 
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jrsandiego12

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Saw a lot of you guys out at the Avenal PRS Regional Series Qualifier this weekend and had a great time shooting with some of you!

The Hide:
This stage spoiler is a hair out of sequence; I should have posted the "reticle ranging pitfalls" tips segment first as they both use the same base math. This stage also relies on some of the skill sets discussed in "Dave's devious dope stage," If you haven't seen that post, I recommend you go back and review it quickly.
View attachment 7363359
This stage simulates setting up deep inside of a homemade hunting blind or other hides where the shooter is set back from a small opening in foliage or other obstructions. The stage will have a boundary area between point-blank and 5 or 6 yards (see the orange flag tape), with a makeshift wall with two small ports that the shooters must shoot through to hit targets between 900yards and 700yards. This is a true team stage, if the shooters operate independently, they'll probably time out.

What it looks like - This 6-second clip shows Jon on the left and me on the right, proofing the stage. We are shooting a 900yard target through a 1-1/2" loophole. For the record, staying on glass is not helpful because you can NOT see your partner's target from the loop your shooting, that why I just came off the glass, I have a better chance of helping with my naked eyes, even better with Binos looking over the top.

The stage setup and scoring:
The guns may be staged with the mag out and bolt back inside the makeshift room marked by the boundaries of the flag tape. Tripods and mags in hand, time starts. One shooter will shoot out of the upper loop, and the other shooter will choose the lower loop, shooters will engage two targets each at one of two specified distances and communicate to the RO their loop and target choice. The shooters may NOT use the same loop height as their teammate, and each shooter must shoot a different distance. There will be a small and large target at each of the two ranges.​
Shooter one will let the RO know what loop and target distance they choose, then engaged the small target first, worth 4pts for a first-round hit, 3pts for a second and third-round impact. Then the large target with the points value being 3pts for a first-round hit, 2pts for a second and 1pt for a third-round impact. Shooter two will follow confirming they are shooting out of the alternate loop and alternate distance using the same points schedule. This is a high-value stage, so that time management will play a key role. We will have a tape measure on site.​
What's the catch? Well, if there is any contact with the loop board or the tape surrounding the loophole that shooter will score a 0 for their stage, the other teammate's score will count as long as they shot cleanly without damaging a tape or loop board. The RO will inspect the tape and board once the team finishes their time. New tape will be installed after the teams examine and score their stage.​
Above is what it looks like when you miss the loop window. If you look closely at the upper loop on the left side, you can see three bullets that clipped the loophole. The target might still have an impact, but this shooter zeroed his attempts.​
How does a loop Look through my scope? Below is a bit of over dramatic representation, but I think it helps illustrate a major issue.​
Parallax can be a huge issue and does not allow the shooter to see the boundaries of the loophole's actual location when you're not centered in the scope. An old school trick used to ensure your scope is parallax free is scope shadowing. It is super fast and simple, move your head back slightly until you see even shadowing all around the ocular. It can be useful in several real word situations even today. Be it a stage with poor body position containing both near and far targets without the time to adjust it to a long-range target where mirage makes it very difficult to ensure the parallax is correct. What's happening is the even shadow around the ocular is indicating that your optical path through the scope is lined up and centered, or make a pinhole in your cap. See more here: https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...allenge-match-11-22-2020.6980614/post-8556127
It would be best if you lined up correctly, and that parallax doesn't make you think the loop window is clear. The other issue you'll encounter is that you can not accurately scale the opening. In this case, We'll give you the opening size so you'll be able to work out the math if you want to understand what's happening.​
First, think of the loophole as a near range target with a secondary target at the end. So, let's use the very same base number for reticle ranging. 27.78 is the number used to mil range targets in the distance using inches of target height - (Target size in inches x 27.78) / Mils = yardage

1. Let's rearrange that formula slightly to get the mil size of a target. In this case, we'll use a 2" target (or opening) and known yardage.​
1mil = 3.6” @ 100y​
100mil = 3.6” @ 1y or 3’​
3.6” is 0.2778 of 1”​
100mil x 0.2778 = 27.78​
27.78 mil per 1” opening @ 3’​
At 12’ (3’x4) it is : 27.78 / 4 = 6.945mil per “ of opening​
2” opening at 12’ measures 13.89mils​
The formula shows us our operational window, even if it is too close to the reticle measure clearly via our scopes.​
2. Using your solver, set the target distance to the distance of the obstruction. We need to find out what problems the distance creates for or SOB and the bullet arc at the distance to the loop wall. This will show you just how low the center of your projectile will be below your POA.​
Here I set my target distance to 12' or 4 yards so that I can see how many mils below my crosshairs the center of the bullet is.​
So I have 15mils let say 17mils for safety under my unaltered crosshairs to clear the lower part of the loop.​
3. Subtract your come-ups from your intended target from the bullet path.
Target @ 900Y = U6mils​
17-6mils = 11mils​
As long as I can see 11 mills under my targe I should be GTG - (remember the loop is 13.9 mils from that distance)​
But wait, some cases are not that simple, if the distance creates come-up that is larger than the bullet path is creating then you have to also be concerned about the top of the loop. Let's say I am back further and the target is further. Let’s use 10y; at 10y, I only need U5.2, let's say U7 for safety. With a target at 1400 yards, I’d need U13. Now your safety is also above the crosshairs with maybe 10mils (8mils + 2mils for safety), as well as below.​
4. Or you can use a program like FFS and all the math is done for you. But really the thread is about understanding a bit more and if nothing else, just to get you to think how all these parts work together.​
5. The entire key is in the tripod height setup.
If you set the target up like most people would, your sure to impact the loop's boundary.​
If we remember from the above sample we needed about 11mils of clearance below our POA in order not to clip the bottom of the loophole. The way to accomplish this is to set your tripod height high enough so the target is very close to the top of the loophole, not centered.​
Depending on distance to the loop and target distance, the image below is how the sight picture might look.​

The truth be told, for the set up we're presenting, if you do this and set up towards the rear of the hide, you'll do just fine without any math— just don't tell anyone you know the code.​

6. The Key is teamwork
The Key to this stage is how your team helps each other fine-tune their tripod heights to set up the sight picture like above and to fight the clock. When we used adjustable center columns, this was much easier to do by yourself. But they tripods were so wobbly the target needed to be substantial. It might be a good idea to go back to the tripod tips segment and see why I suggested always error on setting up too high. It is just way easier and faster to micro-adjust your height using gravity, don't try to fight it. Consent communication is going to play a role in your team's organization on every stage, but this one will take more than most. If you are moving the rifle in this stage OR making a tripod adjustment, the gun must be safe, unloaded, bolt back, and mag removed.
My approach would be (not the only way):​
1. Both teammates use their binos and line up their loop with their selected target choice. Ensure that the target appears near the top of the loop but in the center of the Binos. Each shooter should make a mental note of exactly how heigh their Binos need to be to look at the target correctly.​
2. Each teammate should reference the bino height of the other as well, so that when tripods are set you’ll have a second set of memories and communicate if you see your partner is setting up at the wrong height. These levels will be just about the same for your scopes. Again, if you are going to error, and you will, error on the slightly higher side.​
3. Both shooters start setting up their tripods at the rough height with the rifles still staged on the dirt, bolts back mags out.​
4. The shooter in the higher loop would get the most attention first; as soon as he thinks he's close to having the height, he should mount his rifle, noting the above safety rule (his teammate can help). On glass, the shooter, should be communicating to his teammate if he needs the tripod to go up or down. I would have my teammate helping make these adjustments. Once shooter one is ready, he should confirm with the RO he is making ready, firing through the appropriate loop and confirm the target.​
5. Shooter two should be on his tripod with his gun mounted (bolts back mags out) and adjusting solo while shooter one is shooting. When ready, he can tell the RO he is making ready. Shooter two should be on his target and ready, if not, shooter one will need to finish his COF and make safe before they can help shooter two.​
As I said, you should always be talking, shooter one should be giving wind to shooter two because shooter two can not see shooter one’s targets through their loop and probably will be setting up.​

The shooting will be relatively easy, the time management difficult. This is something as a team you can practice; you do not even need to fire a shot, so practicing at home is valuable. Time can slip away, again as a team; you should be watching your timer or watch. Remember, the smaller targets three impacts are worth a high point value; if the first shooter runs over their time, it might make sense to skip the bigger target and let shooter two bank points. That said, if you practice, you will have time.​
How does this apply in the wild?
Of course, if you make a makeshift Hide like above it is easy to see the application. Knowing your limitations and windows will allow you to make a more stealthy natural hide/blind.​
Shooting over walls, stumps, rocks, etc. that are between you and the animal is a good example of where you need to think about this very process. Hopefully, if nothing else this provides a bit of entertainment or maybe even inspiration to make a natural hide/blind next season.​
Back to the index of Tips and tricks:​

View attachment 7363363
Ok - tested this out today at the range. Entertaining to say the least. Did not have a partner today (he is shooting a match of course) but figured out a very quick way to adjust tripod elevation alone safely. Question - Will we have to range through the loop hole as well?

Thanks
 

jrsandiego12

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"This is not the real stage: We videoed this to help illustrate the need for close-range targets or obstacles (hint for another stage), be as accurate as possible from the muzzle to the target. Most people range a target where they stand then shoot from that spot; it's often more than a 1 to 1-1/2 yards from the muzzle. That said, I am the first one to say that under normal circumstances, who would care. But remember, we are using these examples/discussion points in the hopes of building up to another skill test or stage. With that in mind, if we set target 1 at 12 yards, on my rifle with an SOB of 2.3"; a 1-1/2 yard ranging error is .6mils. It sounds worse than it is because we are mainly thinking of longer distance angular results. But it would be about the width of the pencil at 12 yards."

Diver - this is an inane question about your ranging point above. But in some of my education on doing a tall target test there was emphasis on measuring the 100 yards to target at the turret of the scope as this is the actual point of angle creation when you dial turrets and angle the muzzle up for trajectory. Although I do agree that the barrel is going to be assumed to be perfectly straight, so the point of departure where drop starts occurring is at the muzzle.

Given that scope center to muzzle is about 26" (2/3 of a yard), and your point above is at short distance these small increments might matter, do you recommend ranging from the muzzle or scope center?? Just a curious thought.
 

johnrice

Sergeant of the Hide
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Minuteman
Mar 19, 2018
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im stoked to be in this match, is there certain things i can do at local matches to help prepare for this match?
 

johnrice

Sergeant of the Hide
PX Member
Minuteman
Mar 19, 2018
104
51
last match for a few stages i dabbled in making range cards even tho not needed, just to get some practice, i did not do it on the clock i still felt some pressure to get em done, it gave me some insight.
 
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jrsandiego12

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I end up ranging near the end of the scope not really the turret nor the muzzle. My point was, exaggerated a bit because most people will range standing well behind the butt of the rifle were they might stand before they lay down.

The gravity drops are from the muzzle, but the calibration is from the turrets. As long as your in the ballpark, you’ll be fine. it is actually an easy target if you don’t let the pencil get in your head
got it - thanks
 

jrsandiego12

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Feb 11, 2020
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Dave's Devious Dope Test; ......." if you hit a target other than yours, or shoot too many targets, your Team will get a zero for that target set....."

Target 1: ...."It does not matter who ends up braking both targets, so working as a team is best."

Target 3 - The Team must range the target and are ONLY allowed 2 shots, hit or miss, with hits worth 5 points each.

If you need ACCURATELY to identify a close-range obstruction closer than your scope can resolve, you can pop a hole in your objective scope cap and drastically increase your depth of field. Unfortunately, smaller holes yield more depth of field and depending on the size of your hole; your image brightness will drastically decrease.
This is fun stuff - a couple of questions......
1. You note that it doesn't matter which team member hits a target as long as the targets are hit to advance - but you also note that "if you hit a target other than yours, or too many targets" ?? Just clarifying - there will be other targets that the team could mistakenly hit if they aren't careful to be on the right target - correct?

2. Target 3 - the group on the Ace of Spades - does each team member take 1 shot - or can 1 team member take both shots? I would think 1 shooter has a better chance of placing both shots close from the same rifle/position.

3. I tried the small hole in my lens cap to see if the loop hole edges would be clearer. I put the loop hole at 8 ft (2.6 yds) and there was only very minor improvement - nothing like the clarity of the pencils in the picture. I assume there are limitations - like the object has to be 5+ yds or more or something?
 

Diver160651

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  • Feb 7, 2013
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    This is fun stuff - a couple of questions......
    1. You note that it doesn't matter which team member hits a target as long as the targets are hit to advance - but you also note that "if you hit a target other than yours, or too many targets" ?? Just clarifying - there will be other targets that the team could mistakenly hit if they aren't careful to be on the right target - correct?

    2. Target 3 - the group on the Ace of Spades - does each team member take 1 shot - or can 1 team member take both shots? I would think 1 shooter has a better chance of placing both shots close from the same rifle/position.

    3. I tried the small hole in my lens cap to see if the loop hole edges would be clearer. I put the loop hole at 8 ft (2.6 yds) and there was only very minor improvement - nothing like the clarity of the pencils in the picture. I assume there are limitations - like the object has to be 5+ yds or more or something?
    #3 the pencils might be more like 25-30 yards and your trying to get parallax free with a scope that doesn’t adjust that low. Note that for the loop, your just trying to clean up the edges. If the hole is to large you’ll see little improvement, unfortunately for the smallest holes the scope will become very dark.

    #2 no comment ;)

    #1 Every stage is unique, so in general you need to hit “your” target. this stage has more flexibility and up to the teams to use the rules to best attack the stage.
     

    Diver160651

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    Super appreciative to all the sponsors that have committed to making this match possible!

    Wanted to let everyone know we have a new sponsor partner, Maven. They are based out of Wyoming and have a direct to consumer model. I used one of their setups scouting for Elk last week, very nice glass. I think you know all the other sponsors, but you can learn more about Maven here: https://mavenbuilt.com/

    Maven Custom 11x45 B2.png Maven logo.jpg
    They are a bit unique, in that they offer custom configurations like these binos:​







    spnsor logos for posts-01.png

    Please consider our sponsors for your next purchase.
     
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    Diver160651

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    Stage Spolier - Team Strategies, TEAM dope cards/arm boards for a successful experience.

    You can show up and shoot this match without ever meeting your teammate and even shooting it like you're two completely separated islands. But make no mistake, there is no substitute for practice with your teammate. The best teams at 2-day events, will practice together, shoot multiple team events, shoot cloned guns with the same dope, have the same ranging binos and communicate efficiently and always; however, I'm not going to address either of these two groups. One will have way better systems and I can not hope to contribute value, and the other side of the spectrum, well not sure what to say.

    Teams that communicate well and practice together will have more time because of how efficient they are. They seem to be going in slow motion, never resetting a tripod height, sharing the workload, or somehow just making the RO's clock, work slower. They may be able to spot for each other more or help the other find a missing target. Again, they have a process, which you want to work towards as you practice. There are many great ways to decide on team strategies and ways to implement tactics, and I am just attempting to toss an example in this tip segment, so new teams have a point of reference.

    The value and most of the fun in these types of matches come from functioning as a team. The planning together long before the match on how the team will communicate to solve the challenges (problems), finding targets, how to communicate efficiently, and working together is an experience you'll fondly remember. By far, this ends up being the most valuable component, and learning experience gained. You'll transfer much of this to other shooting situations. Go practice with your partner, talk on the phone, and email what your practice plan might look like. If you can't shoot at the same range, try to plan out the same practice type and debrief on the phone or zoom after you practice. The point of this spin up to give new teams a bit of help in planning their general strategies, most will shot similar rifles, but not have the same exact dope; as such, things get more complicated, and proper planning is even more critical; hopefully, a tip or two here will help make our experience a hair better.

    Let us start with a simple stage example: (This is a live shooting order but NOT actual target locations; and each stage may have a different shooter order)
    4 targets-8 shots per shooter, 32 team points
    2 targets between 180° and 270°
    T1 BLK barrel 99
    T2WHT barrel 45
    VALUE 2pts first round hit, 1pts second round hit
    2 Unmarked hard to find targets
    T3 Square 200° between 550y and 650y
    T4 Circle 270° between 400-525ys
    VALUE 3pts first round hit, 2pts second round hit
    Shooter 1 will engage T1 with 2 shots
    Shooter 2 will engage T1 with 2 shots
    Shooter 1 will engage T2 with 2 shots
    Shooter 2 will engage T2 with 2 shots
    Shooter 1 will engage T3 with 2 shots
    Shooter 2 will engage T3 with 2 shots
    Shooter 1 will engage T4 with 2 shots
    Shooter 2 will engage T4 with 2 shots
    Targets shot out of order are scored as misses; if the shooter decides to skip a target, they must notify the RO and get confirmation that the RO is on the new target; the skipped targets are scored as misses. RO’s may confirm targets, but NOT help in their detection.
    Whenever you add or remove the rifle to the tripod or adjust a tripod height with the rifle on it, we require mag out, flag in, and the bolt back.

    The RO will briefly read this out to the teams, and there will be a laminated card at the FFP. In most cases, you'll be allowed to place your tripod down and stage your rifle in the safe state in the FFP zone. The RO will start the clock, and the team can begin to implement their plan.

    Hopefully, you'll see that it may make sense for a team in time trouble, to skip certain shots because of the points value system, but the team MUST be organized enough not only to make this decision but to make sure the RO is on the same page. Repeating, it is NOT the RO's responsibility to hear the team's whispers; it is the team's to ensure the communication is understood.

    First, let's address teams with shooters not using cloned guns with the same loads and possibly using dissimilar spotting or ranging devices. Obviously, both shooters will need to be on their rifles at the same time with this stage. OK, you have four targets, but where do we start?

    Step 1: Be prepared, organize your loadout to don and doff, and visa vera quickly as well as load mags.​
    Well, maybe I just put the cart before the horse; you need actually to start before you arrive at the stage. Let's step back and acknowledge our day begins with making our beds. The same thing is critical here; you do NOT want your backpack full of shit you have to pack in and out or shuffle through. You want to start your day organized, only carrying the stuff you need and having quick access to it. We'll have a future segment on the gear to pack, but let's just say, for now, you want to be minimalistic and very organized. You're going to need to carry your rifle tripod, glass, and PLRF (if not integrated) and be ready when the RO calls your team to the station. The RO will allow VERY LITTLE time before starting the clock if your team is unorganized and searching through your bags, etc., expect the clock to start even if you're not ready. We do this to emphasize teamwork, being prepared, and keeping the match moving along. Last year, no teams had an issue with being ready when called to the FFP.​

    Step 2: Glass/Range as a team -- communicate always​
    In fairness, I'd be misleading you if I said there was one best strategy; different stages will best suit different approaches as to who does what and what you might look for first. But let use this simple example of the stage above and discuss the flow I see work the best as a general process overview. As you look downrange, you have lateral limits defined by an azimuth range of the targets, and occasionally, a landmark was given to our team during the brief on a laminated card at the FFP.​

    A: Mentally grid the lateral limits, start your terrain map even if just how your writing down the drop. I use 2" easy-peel masking tape with the ends folded to create easy to grab handles like tear-offs in MX racing.​
    Trees-2az.pngUnknown-15.jpeg
    If this doesn't make 100% sense, lease go back and read Stage Debriefing Post #35 https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...allenge-match-11-22-2020.6980614/post-8485325

    B: WORK THE FOV inside your grid AS A TEAM. In many cases, it is almost always better if teams split the ranging duties working simultaneously, with one member working the right lateral limit finding and ranging R-L. The other is working the Left lateral limits working L-R, meeting somewhere near the middle. Before you begin to set your gear, analyze the lateral limits decide on a glassing height based on the possibility of rolling terrain or other obstacles creating dead space that might interfere with you seeing and shooting the targets. Review Tip #10 Post #55 Under Tripod tips https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...allenge-match-11-22-2020.6980614/post-8495271

    C: Communicate always, however, don't use too many words. But wait, that seems like an oxymoron! It is not, you guys should be talking and confirming but keeping some team information and tactics quite. Let's assume I have amplified hearing and am close enough to hear you let your partner know the yardages of all the targets, hum good for me, not so much for your team. There might be other bits of info your best leaving out as well. Now I bet I just thoroughly talked in circles, so let me try to contextualize it.​
    Partner one is ranging T1 and T2 ideally and the other T4 and T3. Let's assume their ranging device gives range only and will talk a bit more on how to deal with dissimilar dope further down. As partner one ranges T1, he writes down his dope and partners dope, then does the same for T2 and maybe T3 if partner two is not yet there. Partner two is doing the same. You might want to set up your lateral limits and targets on your armboard or whatever you use as the RO gives you the short brief. The steps might look something like range T1 is 630y I flip to my dope sheet and write down the drop of 3.2 for me and 3.5 for my partner, then I look for T2 and do the same, writing down 3.8 and 4.1. As I write down our dope, I do so in an ultra rough graphical format. I do this, so I don't lose track as we communicate.​
    IMG_1346.jpg
    Assuming my partner found the other targets, his armbord would complement yours. When you and our partner share target locations and share your data, it is faster and less confusing only to discuss the target come-ups and not the yardage (it also keeps big ears at bay. When the team ranging is down, it would sound something like:​
    Shooter one T1 3.4​
    Shooter two repeats T1 3.4​
    Shooter one T2 4.1​
    Shooter two repeats T2 4.1​
    Then shooter two would do much the same, finishing off shooter ones armboard.​

    What I am leaving out?
    If you are shooting identical calibers and both have integrated Binos with drop data, you're in the "big time." This obviously is the fastest most efficient way as one button gives you dope for both shooters. You'll make quick work of the ranging portion. If you're shooting different calibers with a dissimilar drop, this is not necessarily faster as you need to go to hard dope for our partner's anyway, or range all twice.​
    3. Transition to your rifles. If you've set your tripod correctly, you should be able to transition to the rifles. Just remember, whenever you add or remove the rifle to the tripod or adjust a tripod height with the rifle on it, we require mag out, flag in, and the bolt back. This is why Tip #10 Post #55 Under Tripod tips, is so important.​
    A. The setup: I think using an Able Table and a Smedium Game Changer or Pint-sized Game Changer, is the fastest solution for these type matches. But direct-attached seems to work fine. Just practice seeing how you can eliminate steps. You can see Tips: The Able Table and a bag for a field match or hunting. Post # 79 here: https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...allenge-match-11-22-2020.6980614/post-8523163
    B. Consider having the fastest most experienced shooter as shooter 1, if you have a big gap in your team's skill set. You don't want the slowest shooter going first only to burn more than their time and cause shooter two not to shoot.​
    C. Practice, or even in the match, use a large timer attached to your tripod so your team will know when or if it should strategically skip a target or targets. Amazon has timers that are about 9 bucks. The RO's have actual shooting timmers but do not let you know your running time.​
    stop watch.png
    4. Shooting: In this example, Shooter one starts on T1, and Shooter two should also be on his rifle on T1. Shooter one should communicate something before the shot like R.4 (if he had a wobble or bad trigger resulting in a miss he needs to communicate that to shooter two. Otherwise, shooter two should give a new wind (for me it is from the center of the plate) like R.8; shooter one would be wise to repeat this. Shooter two has learned good data from shooter one and should engage T1 as soon as it has stopped swinging enough to feel comfortable.​
    5. Target transition: Someone isn't going to get the same advantage as the first shooter in this COF by having in a built-in spotter if you're interested in speed. Shooter one should be moving to engage T2 as soon as he hears shooter two's second shoot and the RO's confirmation that he is now on T2, he should repeat what he did on T1. Note that Shooter 2 might not yet even be reset and on T2. As this stage is set up, it is a game of organized "follow the leader." Depending on how organized your team is, how much time was burned to find the targets, you may have time to spot for each other through your rifle scopes, but I would not count on it.​
    6. Know when to skip targets or transition shooters if you think the time will shut your team down prematurely. It might be better to skip a target worth 1pt to get a 3pt impact. Just remember if you're not squared away, this can also really screw your team if you're out of sequence or the RO is not clear on our plan. You need to make sure the RO is aware and on target.​

    BUILDING A TEAM DOPE CARD
    I've tried a bunch of different armboards over the years. I do believe that armboards or a whiteboard/clipboard attached to your tripod are great ways to go.
    ARMBOARD:
    INKJET PAPER:
    I also recommend Teslin synthetic Inkjet paper. It is waterproof once the ink is dry. Right in the Rain, has not played well with my inkjet. For the Teslin you can get it also via Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00449PRJ2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    DOPE PAGES:
    Here is an example with teammates with vasty dissimilar dope.​
    wrist coach.jpeg
    What you'll notice is that you can actually just reference either dope and get the dope for the other.​
    team dope card.png
    This allows a Shooter one to range using the drop in an integrated bino and see 1.9 in their display, then immediately know their partner is 2.4; or even the other way with a comment from Shooter one like "I needed 1.3," Shooter two can easily see they'll need 1.7. This makes having to go to yardage over and over again a thing of the past and keeps your competitors in the dark. I don't usually add wind but can if the mph values are drastically different. I hope it is clear if your team has the same dope then your GTG and do not need to worry about this step.​
    DOWNLOAD AN EXCEL Template: (Note that you can use 28.9inHg year-round and not see an impact issue.) You do NOT need to get lost in your kestrel to have a click accurate drop.​
    print at 60% to match the wrist coach.​
    PS: Expect all possible combinations of shooting sequences required by the shooters.
     
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    Diver160651

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    COVID- Questions:

    Had a few guys wonder how things might pan out in the future as a lot of ranges on state land or otherwise controlled by the State had closures and the use of masks.

    We are in a very lightly populated area of the State and are very fortunate to be privately owned by the club, that is, so we were never required to shut down like many other ranges. We also do our best to follow guidelines on social distancing, and the course is spread out over about a mile.

    As of right now, we are planning to encourage the use of face coverings when near others. At the FFP, it will be only the team that is close to each other, and the ROs will have face coverings. The main point is that we want everyone to feel OK with their decision to shoot the match and not feel out of place if they want to stay masked up.

    We feel very confident that everyone will have a blast.


    View attachment 7393875
     
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    Diver160651

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    Sorry guys I was planning on posting the next topic this Monday, but we we’re evacuated and I don’t have access to what I need.

    0AC0F999-8736-4397-969F-DE313C777E33.jpeg
    This picture is from my near my back deck. Looks like we’ll be out for up to a couple weeks, assuming more fires don’t start in this next freak lighting event predicted for Sunday through Tuesday.

    I’ll get the next topic up one way or the other shortly!

    PS. Sorry to my friends and fellow shooters that already lost their homes.
     

    Dustyplyr

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    Sorry guys I was planning on posting the next topic this Monday, but we we’re evacuated and I don’t have access to what I need.

    View attachment 7405082
    This picture is from my near my back deck. Looks like we’ll be out for up to a couple weeks, assuming more fires don’t start in this next freak lighting event predicted for Sunday through Tuesday.

    I’ll get the next topic up one way or the other shortly!

    PS. Sorry to my friends and fellow shooters that already lost their homes.
    Stay safe.
     

    ThreeBravo

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    Sorry guys I was planning on posting the next topic this Monday, but we we’re evacuated and I don’t have access to what I need.

    View attachment 7405082
    This picture is from my near my back deck. Looks like we’ll be out for up to a couple weeks, assuming more fires don’t start in this next freak lighting event predicted for Sunday through Tuesday.

    I’ll get the next topic up one way or the other shortly!

    PS. Sorry to my friends and fellow shooters that already lost their homes.
    Hope y'all make it out ok.
     
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    mjh317

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    Sorry guys I was planning on posting the next topic this Monday, but we we’re evacuated and I don’t have access to what I need.

    View attachment 7405082
    This picture is from my near my back deck. Looks like we’ll be out for up to a couple weeks, assuming more fires don’t start in this next freak lighting event predicted for Sunday through Tuesday.

    I’ll get the next topic up one way or the other shortly!

    PS. Sorry to my friends and fellow shooters that already lost their homes.
    Stay safe!
     
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    seansmd

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    under construction:

    TIP: What to carry.

    Well, the options certainly vary, and much will be a personal choice or basis, depending on the team. One thing is certain, anticipate that both shooters should have the ability to do all tasks simultaneously. While there will not be restrictions on sharing gear, other than repair tools and spare mags, except in some particular and limited cases, sharing gear will come with a huge time penalty. Each should have their rifle support tools, PLRFs, timmers, and arm boards or place to write dope and notes. Most of this part has been covered in previous tips and tricks. If you haven't viewed them, I'd suggest you go back to the main index and read through them if you have questions on these items. Here

    Range finding, Target ID, and spotting: 1 each
    Before we start, I wanna make sure that I get all of my biases and preferences laid out on the table. I believe that it's essential to be transparent in what works for me and why I do what I do versus what will work best for you.​
    I have dedicated optics for bow hunting, long-range hunting, spotting, and match shooting, and I have not found one optic that does everything entirely well. I've also found that most optics with integrated rangefinding tend to be of lesser optical quality than high-end alpha glass. There are very few optics with stellar glass and integrated range finders; those that are optical equals tend to have ranging capabilities that are lower than available in dedicated PLRFs. Because for every continuous minute, I use a rangefinder, I spend many hours looking through the optic; I'm just not willing to give up comfort or optical quality for integration.​
    The best option might be your integrated Binos, especially those that spitting out our dope. That said, something like the 7x Liecia PLRF has an apparent FOV of 6.6°, so other than magnification and optical quality, you're going to do just fine if that is all you have. As an example, I think @hic28 has won a UKD match recently doing primarily just that.​
    Ideally, though, I use a chest rig by KUIU, with the binos and PLRF tethered, so I can drop and go if need be. It provides fast access, and I would say that while I have binos in the pack, 90-95% of the time, all I am pulling out is my PLRF. I generally eyeball the area during the brief, walk up to the FFP, still eyeballing targets, and it is always enough to know if standing is the only option; If I get really stuck, I'll pull out the binos. I set up the tripod and generally defaulting to the highest position, often just attaching the rifle and use the top of my scope as a support base for my PLRF.​
    Here are my recommendations for ranging:
    1. Make sure both partners have a good range finder.
    2. If you don't have great binos or a PLRF. by all means, consider an integrated set of Binos
    3. If you use binos bring a chest rig
    4. Don't go out and replace our PLRF with range-finding binos if you have an excellent PLRF already- unless you're made of $$.
    5. Do NOT bring a dedicated spotter. In most cases, if there is an opportunity to spot, you'll be using your rifle scope.
    6. Review "Knowing your PLRF thread. Tips: PLRF beam verification techniques post #123
    Images of chest rig - coming soon​
    Tripod: 1 each
    Decide on whether or not you'll be using the faster Able Table and heavy bags like a heavy Pint GC or Schedium; or you're going to lock into a head like the Anvil 30. Please do not skimp on the tripod; you can shoot from it on every station, and both shooters need one. I put a couple of quick links below.​

    check back -close of business 9*17 for images and finished post

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    Another great post Jim, thoughts on the trade-off of the lock in vs able table approach?
     

    Diver160651

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    TIP: What to carry - the number one asked question.

    Well, the options certainly vary, and much will be a personal choice or basis, depending on the team. One thing is sure, anticipate that both shooters should have the ability to do all tasks simultaneously. While there will not be restrictions on sharing gear, other than repair tools and spare mags, except in some particular and limited cases, sharing gear will come with a huge time penalty. Each should have their rifle support tools, PLRFs, timmers, and arm boards or place to write dope and notes. Most of this part has been covered in previous tips and tricks. If you haven't viewed them, I'd suggest you go back to the main index and read through them if you have questions on these items. Here

    Range finding, Target ID, and spotting: (PLRF1 each + binos)​
    Before we start, I wanna make sure that I get all of my biases and preferences laid out on the table. I believe that it's essential to be transparent in what works for me and why I do what I do versus what will work best for you.​
    I have dedicated optics for bow hunting, long-range hunting, spotting, and match shooting, as I have not found one optic that does everything entirely well. I've also found that most optics with integrated rangefinding tend to be of lesser optical quality than high-end alpha glass. There are very few optics with stellar glass and integrated range finders; those that are optical equals tend to have ranging capabilities that are lower than available in dedicated PLRFs. Because every continuous minute I use a rangefinder, I spend many hours looking through the optics for wind, trace, impacts, signatures, targets, and scouting; I'm just not willing to give up comfort or optical quality for integration.​
    That said, for pure speed at a UKD Team match, the best option might be integrated binos, especially those that spitting out your dope. It is worth noting; however, something like the 7x Liecia PLRF has an apparent FOV of 6.6°, so other than magnification and optical quality, you're going to do just fine if that is all you have. As an example, I think @hic28 has won a UKD match recently doing primarily just that.​
    If you're using Binos, consider a chest rig. I use a chest rig by KUIU, with the binos and PLRF tethered, to drop and go if need be. It provides fast access, but I would say that while I have binos in the Pack, 90-95% of the time, all I am pulling out is my PLRF. I generally eyeball the area during the brief, walk up to the FFP, still eyeballing targets, and it is always enough to know if standing is the only option; If I get really stuck, I'll pull out the binos. I set up the tripod and generally defaulting to the highest position, often just attaching the rifle and use the top of my scope as a support base for my PLRF.​
    I prefer Binos for finding targets fast at these ranges to be around 10x. It allows fast handheld, or just laying the Binos over the rifle for quick target acquisition. I'd leave my 15x Binos at home for this match. Binos with super forgiving eye boxes, wider FOV, and lower power really shine under these types of events. I need to add that you can make up for the reduced power by using nice glass.​
    Recommendation gear for ranging:
    1. Make sure both partners have a good range finder.
      1. If you don't have great binos or a PLRF. by all means, consider an integrated set of Binos.
      2. If you use binos, use a chest rig.
      3. Tripod (covered in rifle support)
      4. Don't go out and replace your PLRF with range-finding binos if you have an excellent PLRF already- unless you're made of $$.
      5. Do NOT bring a dedicated spotter. In most cases, if there is an opportunity to spot, you'll be using your rifle scope.
      6. Review "Knowing your PLRF thread. Tips: PLRF beam verification techniques post #123
    Here is a link to the KUIU Bino chest rig. It Flips open and ends up leaving a big bucket for fast access. There are many other brands like the Alaskan and Vortex, Sitka uses a slower zipper and I think needs a redesign.​
    Below is one of my actual Bino harness populated with my favorite Binos for this type of stuff, Maven 11x45s. The eye box is impressive, and it feels more like looking at a widescreen TV than many other binos (similar to the ZCO image); these have replaced my older Swaro 10x-42s. I am not saying the glass is better, just that the image is more comfortable and natural to me. Not bad for about a third less $$. My PLRF is on the left side (right side of the image).​
    KUIU bino harnes.jpg mavins and harnes.jpg Maven Custom 11x45 B2.png
    Rifle support
    Of course, you are welcome to use any shooting support you use in the field, just as you might during a walk-in hunt where you expect long-range ethic kills. If shooting sticks are your thing and you are amazingly proficient, go for it. I am not an excellent long-range offhand shooter, for me, a tripod has become essential field gear for my rifle hunts. Hell, I need something for spotting anyway. If I take off my bipod, an RRS shooting tripod's net weight can be less in total carry weight, increasing my ethical range many times over for every position but prone. To that end, this match will simulate long-range conditions you might find as your hiking the central coast on a hunt.​
    Whatever your choice, you'll need to manage all your gear, and you'll be shooting 8 or 10 stages, dropping gear, picking it up, and repeating that a couple of times per stage. A bipod is essential, unlike hunting, just to keep your gun clean and stored safely in a match setting, along with a sling for carrying it.​
    You can use a tripod on 100% of the stages as primary rifle support if your tripod can stabilize your rifle from near prone to standing. You also want to make sure you are not lugging around all your gear plus a 6-9lbs tripod unless you're an animal; you will be hiking a bit. Most of your actual spotting is from your gun while on the tripod; the tripod will be an essential piece of your kit. Of course, you are welcome to use any shooting support you use in the field, stuff you might in walk-in hunting where you expect long-range kills.​
    Decide on whether or not you'll be using the faster Able Table and heavy bags like a heavy Pint GC or Schedium; or you're going to lock into a head like the Anvil 30. If you're practiced, shooting a low recoiling round, it is super hard to beat the Able Table and heavy bag concept for pure speed. But, for me, it is less practical in an actual walk-in hunt as you're adding about 7-8lbs to your kit, over and above your tripod, and it does not suck up the recoil of light-weight hunting magnums like a directly attracted tripod. But then again, this isn't really hunting.​
    Able-Table-side-by-side.png
    Above is @hic28 setup; if I use my Able Table, I usually use the binos and PLRF, left tethered to my chest rig. If you are going to use the table or hard attached optics, I suggest that you set them up on our tripod once at your first staging area and carry the tripod setup slung under your arm to and from the FFP. The last thing you want to do is time out setting up your tripod or have the RO brush you off because you're slowing trying to unpack and repack. I'd recommend carrying your tripod slung like in the image below regardless of what is or isn't attached, once you've made your first staging area.​
    James_tripod slung.jpg
    RRS makes super slick sling attachments as used in the above image, But there are other ways to add a sling. See the Armageddon Gear Sling below:​
    armageddon.png
    Please do not skimp on the tripod; you can shoot from it on every station and use it for optics support, and both shooters need one.​
    loop James roomSM.png
    I put a couple of quick links regarding tripods options.​
    Recommended support gear:
    1. Rifle Sling - for transport (1 each)
    2. Tripod Sling - for transport (1-each)
    3. Bipod - for staging safety (1 each)
    4. Shooting Tripod: (1 each)
    If you're using a table instead of a direct tripod mount, add the following.​
    + Able table (1 each)​
    + Pint or Schedium Game Changer (1 each)​
    Optional​
    Rear bag (one stage- 1 each)​
    Your Pack, what is in and attached to it. (These are MY choices and may NOT work for you)
    James Snipers Hide Cup.jpg
    For the long hike to the opening stage or end of the day, I show everything with the most used items outside or on my hips and chest. Using a large bag and putting these things inside is a recipe for extra work and time. My son above is using a KUIU hunting pack, and below is my tiny PRS pack. Both packs styles will work well if you think through your kit.​
    pack.jpg
    The image above is my match bag ready to carry to the briefing of the first stage. It is all the same as I carry for either type of match except I don't bring a rear or void fill bag (pump pillow), and for PRS type matches, I do not use the chest rig; It stays attached.​
    UKD Stage ready Pack1.png
    Here the items are taken out or unattached from the bag That would get carried on my body between the FFP and Staging areas.​
    1. The tripod is set to the kneeling position, for standing all I need to do is fully extend the lower legs.
    2. I use the sling and sling it under my arm between stages.
    3. The Able table is attached
    4. Chest rig with Binos and PLRF is on my body
    5. I run a mag holder and shell cache bag, it makes the make-ready and stage clean-up way easier. My ECI goes in the shell cache during the make-ready.
    6. Dope is on my arm
    I leave the pint of Schedium bag on the bottom of the pack, clipped for easy removal. Water, whiteboard, and a trauma kit with Tourniquet are attached.​
    UKD Stage ready Packopen1.png
    In the fast access compartment, I keep:​
    1. A note pad, pens,
    2. Arm board stage inserts
    3. Stage timmer
    4. Spare mag timer
    5. Double-sided ammo carrier. The ammo carrier on the right hold 80 rounds and with a spare mag and mag on the belt, I have over 100 rounds. If I need more I add a have section or another double in the main compartment. This is enough for this match.
    6. Full tool kit
    UKD Stage ready Packopen2.png
    In the main compartment, I keep, lesser-used items​
    1. Ultra-Light Packable rain gear - if it seems at all possible
    2. Full-length cleaning rod. Man, this has saved a lot of people's matches removing stuck cases to case head separations and cleaning rifles after a mud or debris has entered the brake or barrel.
    3. Lens shade
    4. Extra stuff like ammo or handgun if not on the hip can go in here.
    5. Snacks
    What gear to share if space or weight is a concern.
    1. Cleaning rod
    2. Tool kit
    3. timer
    4. white-board / tablet
    5. IFK/ trauma kit

    A closing note on Transporting, staging, and at the FFP

    Remember origination and team communication is the most important after safety. Carry your gear so you maintain control of your muzzle's direction at all times, do not flag anyone or your going home. Get to the staging area, carefully unmount your rifle ( people get flagged during this step a lot), place it as indicated in a safe direction, unloaded, mag out, and ECI in. Set up our gear in the staging area so you ready to rock as you walk up to the FFP. You will get a short brief and the RO will start the timmer. I know this sounds dumb, but if this is your first UKD Team tripod-based match, I suggest that you practice at home with your kit moving from spot to spot, setting, and picking up your rifle tripod until you feel butter smooth.


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    ThreeBravo

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    Diver I see in the pic of your tripod it looks like you have a combination of metal feet and rubber ones. Am I seeing that correct? Can you school me on this?
     

    Diver160651

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    Diver I see in the pic of your tripod it looks like you have a combination of metal feet and rubber ones. Am I seeing that correct? Can you school me on this?
    It serves no functional purpose day to day, on concrete, it is a feature that takes away from the performance. But, this is for the hunts, late rifle, often with mud snow, or ice. If I am lucky enough to be able to add weight from the mountain and carry a heavy load and on steep hills without my poles, I'll extend that one leg and use it like a really stable hiking pole. It has saved my ass side-hilling and on the descent.

    I usually carry a set of 10oz Carbon Z-poles, but it is often faster just to use the tripod
     
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    ThreeBravo

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    It serves no functional purpose day to day, on concrete, it is a feature that takes away from the performance. But, this is for one hunt a year during late rifle. If I am lucky enough to be able to add weight from the mountain and carry a heavy load and on steep hills without my poles, I'll extend that one leg and use it like a really stable hiking pole. It has saved my ass side-hilling and on the descent.

    I usually carry a set of 10oz Carbon Z-poles, but it is often faster just to use the tripod
    Thanks, never thought of that.
     

    Diver160651

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    Hope to post - Reticle ranging issues, what to look out for and why it is a legacy skill for Precision rifle by the end to this week.

    We will have on stage using the reticle; we will use 2-M0A* ish sized targets, and we will create scenarios that will test your awareness. All the tips and hints will be in the upcoming thread/

    * Reticle randing works for mil targets because of the large size vers the distance, as an example, an IPSIC is 7.16MOA x 4.3MOA @ 400 yards. This makes reading errors less likely and certainly a much lower % of the total target size.
     
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    Diver160651

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    The problems with Reticle Ranging for Precision Rifle:

    If I ask you why you use an FFP (first focal plane) scope for precision rifle shooting, what would your answer be? I'd like you to pause and answer it out loud.

    If one of the top 3 reasons is reticle ranging, I hope to change your mind. If we could agree on an FFP scope's true value, I think you will appreciate why we are doing what we are on the reticle ranging stage of the UKD Team match. I also hope it will become easier to see the broader applications and real value, such as hunting at longer ranges.

    Again, being honest with ourselves, unless we had a mentor, our first purchase of a modern subtensioned scope probably resulted in you trying to figure out whether a MIL-based or MOA-based scope would be best. In large part, most likely based on what you thought would be the easiest to use with a ranging formula. There is nothing increasingly wrong with that idea, just that it illustrates placing purchasing priorities in the wrong place based on poor information out of the gate.

    I will come right out and say it; reticle ranging small targets at long ranges just does not work well. As we go on, I'm going to cite examples that defeat these scopes' ability to range with acceptable accuracy for our shots, especially considering the proliferation of cheap, accurate PLRFs. But first, let's take a step back and create some contextual guardrails. Without them, my examples and our tips on what to look out for on this stage and the targets we use will seem to make less sense.

    Let's generalize and create three primary user groups for FFP scopes, medium-range Military use, hunting medium to long-range, and Precision Rifle (PRS/NRL Feild type long-range matches).

    Hunting medium to long-range use:
    Hunting is unique in that an "ethical" vital zone shot is relatively small compared to Military sized targets and does NOT scale larger as range increases. A classic 8" Pie plate sounds huge at <200 yards, but that same pie plate is .95MOA by 800 yards, PR targets tend to get larger with increased range as they try to stay true to an angular theme. Knowing the exact range is critical for long-range shots on animals and accounting for wind far more essential than most hunters realize. The animal size is unknown with certainty, and the angle to the shooter is an estimation. Having scaled wind holds is, in my opinion, a necessity for long-range hunting. An accurate wind scale at any magnification is were an FFP scope shines.​
    Precision Rifle use:
    Targets tend to be 2MOA and scale with distance. The range is almost always provided unless you are purposefully seeking matches like the TEAM UKD, Safari Steel Challange, SH Cup, and RTC. PR, (PRS/NRL type) is often more about building a stable position under time pressure. Like hunting, the primary use is accurate wind holds, followed by evaluation holds and communication at any magnification.​
    Military use:
    I will reverse my rhetoric and say reticle ranging for quick snapshots IS the principal use, and "range estimation" IS a primary feature. So wait, what is it? You can't have it both ways ou say, I agree. It is not the same; a human or more politically correct, NATO E-type Silhouette Targe is a giant-sized target compared to or PRS 2MOA targets or vitals on an animal. A NATO E-type Silhouette Target if you don't know is about 40"x19.5" or at 500 yards, roughly 7.65 MOA/2.22 Mils vertically. Let's compare the standard PRS target at about 10" and 8" vitals on an animal that is now only 1.5MOA, and it is easy to imagine the animal will have the least room for ranging error with the Nato E more than generous. It is also worth noting that a bit of optical disturbance or LOS angle plays a much smaller part at medium ranges on giant targets.​

    Apply an example using a PR cartridge, as it will be the most range insensitive, in other words working against my point. I'll use a 115gr going 3,000fps at the 500y E target needing 2.3mils for a centered impact. This gives me 1.1mils both below and above for poor range estimation. In other words, from 335yards to 635yards, the plate will ring. In contrast to the PRS sized target, where I only have .28mils of tolerance above and below or were a read of 540yards would result in a clean miss, worse yet, with the smaller size of an animal's vitals.​
    The above comparison is unrealistic because it assumes one was able to range the targets with absolute certainty. Let apply a few very real but underrealized modifiers to our reticle-ranging scenario. Optical disturbances, be it a mirage (heat shimmer), sun flair, moister, dirt, or even color, will make targets harder to resolve and appear bigger, while the target angle will reduce the perceived target size. Small targets are more range sensitive, as illustrated above but also MUCH harder to scale correctly.​

    Small Targets:
    1MOA/.29mils become more sensitive to read errors, just like it is when you zero your scope on paper. Even at 100yards, it can be challenging to see the difference between the finest adjustments, returning to a PRS target sized example, but at 695yards, it makes sense that scaling the target to perfection is just about impossible. See the first image below. Some of the targets is a hair above the cross-hair and a bit below the .5mil Strada line. It appears to be just over .5mils and it's your guess as to the exact read, maybe in perfect air, it would read under .5 mils (it should read .49mils BTW.). So already we might be estimating the range 30-35yards short.​
    Reticle-ranging-695-25x.png
    Mirage (technically Heat Shimmer) and other optical disturbances:
    Optical disturbances can add 20-30% to the perceived size. It is quite common for the mirage to make the target appear much larger as well; let's say it appears to read .65mils, that tiny .15 misread will have you think the range is 100yards short! The projected drop for that actual target is U4mils, but your read is U3, and that's not good in the precision rifleman's world. Below is the same place an hour or so later as the heat shimmer increased; although light, certainly ads about .1-.2mil. Note the images represent very mild heat shimmer.​
    Reticle-ranging-695-25x-Mirage.png
    Target Color:
    Target color can often cause targets to glow and appear larger, especially bright fluorescent yellows, oranges, and pinks. Depending on the sunlight, these might apear between a .05mil and .1mil larger.​
    Target color-01.png


    Angles are a reality:
    Below are representations of two targets BOTH are at the same distance and BOTH are 14" squares. Can you tell me how that is possible??​
    angeled RETICLE RANGING TARGET ILLUSTRATION-01.png
    If the plate on the left is tilted down 45 degrees, and away 45 degrees and far enough away, the plate will appear about half the size. If you do not know the angle and the angle is compound, this of course now makes a know-sized target, unknow and almost useless to reticle range.​
    When you are dealing with small targets, optical disturbances and funky colors all on the same target be aware of the stacking effect you can be dealing with. If you find you're sailing over a target and that target isn't crystal clear assume you've overestimated the target size. Make sure you attend to identify if a target has an angle that might impact our read, a circle should look circular, squares as squares, use other known objects nearby if you can; use the largest item you can. Hint bomb.

    Expect to see 3-4 smaller PRS sized targets on the UKD Reticle ranging stage, presenting the challenges above. No, we're not going to set up E- sized targets and yes, you'll miss your range finder. Of course, those that have read this thread may find the clues in the stage brief more helpful than the teams that didn't. Oh, I would write down the size for common-sized items are that you might see on a range, like a 55-gallon barrel container, car tire, a ram from a 500m Silhouette, and a pig from the 300m line and Standard T-post in the ground just past the spade. Hint bomb.

    I hope that the next time someone asks you why you use an FFP with a subtensioned reticle, you answer something like this: It provides an accurate wind-hold, and hold-overs at any magnification, corrections are accurate, and helps me communicate quickly and accurately.


    Top reasons to purchase an FFP, regardless of magnification levels for the PR shooter:​
    1. Accurate/fast wind holds
    2. Flash milling wind budgets (targets angular size)
    3. Accurate//fast holdovers
    4. Accurate//fast corrections
    5. Accurate/clear communication

    Back to the index

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    rommel500

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    Was there any more word on any range practice days? I haven't received any emails since June. Just making sure we're not missing anything.
     

    Diver160651

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    Was there any more word on any range practice days? I haven't received any emails since June. Just making sure we're not missing anything.
    We can arrange some guys to meet at the range, but the spin-ups have been moved to this online format. We've already covered more, but I know it's not the same. If we get enough interest, we'll add a date and do something on tripod shooting tips.
     

    Diver160651

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    With the PRS California Sharpshooter Showdown behind @Swoodhouse19 (Scott) this weekend, we are now in the phase we're are starting the quest for RO's for our UKD Team Challange.

    It is a single-day event, free camping, ROs can use a mask if they wish. You'll get free entry into one of our future 1-day matches, plus a preferential registration spot in the 2021 UKD Team Match (it sells out) so this is big and you'll get to see so many working strategies and non-working strategies that really will help you in your field and future events. We'll also get you on the range during one of the practice days.

    It is actually kinda fun as you'll be an active member of spotting or scoring and you'll see firsthand what works well and what doesn't as the different teams try to tackle shooting from slopes etc.

    Here is a series of Facebook (I know) picture posts from this weekend PRS California Sharpshooter Showdown 2 day National level match this weekend brought to you by Kahles North America - October 17 & 18, 2020 - Pictures by Greg Moore.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/PRSS...0643758419385/

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/3193...3244927266012/

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/3193...3257820598056/

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/3193...4148113842360/

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/3193...4149767175528/

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/3193...4127777177727/

    These photos will give you a good sense of the range layout.
     
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    Diver160651

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    Still looking for ROs on November 22nd. Free BBQ on Saturday night if you are an RO and want to camp the night before!spnsor logos for posts-01.png
     
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    Swoodhouse19

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    This is a great match. Very unique. RO's will learn a lot from watching this match. And be ready to sign up for 2021. I REALLY REALLY need RO's to volunteer. IF you are a shooter/hunter then you would be the perfect RO> We will give you great direction on your COF and you will have direct communication with the Match Director. PM me here or contact me at avenaltactical@gmail.com
     
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    Diver160651

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    Will there be any more Tips and Tricks posts? We are closing in fast on this match!!
    Scott will still try to arrange a day ay the range and post it on here. I have at least one more tip segment to go..

    Make sure to look up a standard 55-gallon drum and the sizes of the rams and pigs of a silhouette range, as hinted to in post 177. We had planned 11 stages and might cut back 2 of them as they involved sharing comms, and people might still be sketchy with COVID. Those place holders are still on the main page, and we just haven't decided if it makes sense; if and when we put those stages in, they will be a blast.

    We'll be setting up Saturday morning at first light, so there might be a couple of hours around 10 am if someone feels like seeing/shooting the range. You'll need to PM me and get my cell number.

    Jim
     

    jrsandiego12

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    The problems with Reticle Ranging for Precision Rifle:

    If I ask you why you use an FFP (first focal plane) scope for precision rifle shooting, what would your answer be? I'd like you to pause and answer it out loud.

    If one of the top 3 reasons is reticle ranging, I hope to change your mind. If we could agree on an FFP scope's true value, I think you will appreciate why we are doing what we are on the reticle ranging stage of the UKD Team match. I also hope it will become easier to see the broader applications and real value, such as hunting at longer ranges.

    Again, being honest with ourselves, unless we had a mentor, our first purchase of a modern subtensioned scope probably resulted in you trying to figure out whether a MIL-based or MOA-based scope would be best. In large part, most likely based on what you thought would be the easiest to use with a ranging formula. There is nothing increasingly wrong with that idea, just that it illustrates placing purchasing priorities in the wrong place based on poor information out of the gate.

    I will come right out and say it; reticle ranging small targets at long ranges just does not work well. As we go on, I'm going to cite examples that defeat these scopes' ability to range with acceptable accuracy for our shots, especially considering the proliferation of cheap, accurate PLRFs. But first, let's take a step back and create some contextual guardrails. Without them, my examples and our tips on what to look out for on this stage and the targets we use will seem to make less sense.

    Let's generalize and create three primary user groups for FFP scopes, medium-range Military use, hunting medium to long-range, and Precision Rifle (PRS/NRL Feild type long-range matches).

    Hunting medium to long-range use:
    Hunting is unique in that an "ethical" vital zone shot is relatively small compared to Military sized targets and does NOT scale larger as range increases. A classic 8" Pie plate sounds huge at <200 yards, but that same pie plate is .95MOA by 800 yards, PR targets tend to get larger with increased range as they try to stay true to an angular theme. Knowing the exact range is critical for long-range shots on animals and accounting for wind far more essential than most hunters realize. The animal size is unknown with certainty, and the angle to the shooter is an estimation. Having scaled wind holds is, in my opinion, a necessity for long-range hunting. An accurate wind scale at any magnification is were an FFP scope shines.​
    Precision Rifle use:
    Targets tend to be 2MOA and scale with distance. The range is almost always provided unless you are purposefully seeking matches like the TEAM UKD, Safari Steel Challange, SH Cup, and RTC. PR, (PRS/NRL type) is often more about building a stable position under time pressure. Like hunting, the primary use is accurate wind holds, followed by evaluation holds and communication at any magnification.​
    Military use:
    I will reverse my rhetoric and say reticle ranging for quick snapshots IS the principal use, and "range estimation" IS a primary feature. So wait, what is it? You can't have it both ways ou say, I agree. It is not the same; a human or more politically correct, NATO E-type Silhouette Targe is a giant-sized target compared to or PRS 2MOA targets or vitals on an animal. A NATO E-type Silhouette Target if you don't know is about 40"x19.5" or at 500 yards, roughly 7.65 MOA/2.22 Mils vertically. Let's compare the standard PRS target at about 10" and 8" vitals on an animal that is now only 1.5MOA, and it is easy to imagine the animal will have the least room for ranging error with the Nato E more than generous. It is also worth noting that a bit of optical disturbance or LOS angle plays a much smaller part at medium ranges on giant targets.​

    Apply an example using a PR cartridge, as it will be the most range insensitive, in other words working against my point. I'll use a 115gr going 3,000fps at the 500y E target needing 2.3mils for a centered impact. This gives me 1.1mils both below and above for poor range estimation. In other words, from 335yards to 635yards, the plate will ring. In contrast to the PRS sized target, where I only have .28mils of tolerance above and below or were a read of 540yards would result in a clean miss, worse yet, with the smaller size of an animal's vitals.​
    The above comparison is unrealistic because it assumes one was able to range the targets with absolute certainty. Let apply a few very real but underrealized modifiers to our reticle-ranging scenario. Optical disturbances, be it a mirage (heat shimmer), sun flair, moister, dirt, or even color, will make targets harder to resolve and appear bigger, while the target angle will reduce the perceived target size. Small targets are more range sensitive, as illustrated above but also MUCH harder to scale correctly.​

    Small Targets:
    1MOA/.29mils become more sensitive to read errors, just like it is when you zero your scope on paper. Even at 100yards, it can be challenging to see the difference between the finest adjustments, returning to a PRS target sized example, but at 695yards, it makes sense that scaling the target to perfection is just about impossible. See the first image below. Some of the targets is a hair above the cross-hair and a bit below the .5mil Strada line. It appears to be just over .5mils and it's your guess as to the exact read, maybe in perfect air, it would read under .5 mils (it should read .49mils BTW.). So already we might be estimating the range 30-35yards short.​
    View attachment 7436381
    Mirage (technically Heat Shimmer) and other optical disturbances:
    Optical disturbances can add 20-30% to the perceived size. It is quite common for the mirage to make the target appear much larger as well; let's say it appears to read .65mils, that tiny .15 misread will have you think the range is 100yards short! The projected drop for that actual target is U4mils, but your read is U3, and that's not good in the precision rifleman's world. Below is the same place an hour or so later as the heat shimmer increased; although light, certainly ads about .1-.2mil. Note the images represent very mild heat shimmer.​
    Target Color:
    Target color can often cause targets to glow and appear larger, especially bright fluorescent yellows, oranges, and pinks. Depending on the sunlight, these might apear between a .05mil and .1mil larger.​


    Angles are a reality:
    Below are representations of two targets BOTH are at the same distance and BOTH are 14" squares. Can you tell me how that is possible??​
    If the plate on the left is tilted down 45 degrees, and away 45 degrees and far enough away, the plate will appear about half the size. If you do not know the angle and the angle is compound, this of course now makes a know-sized target, unknow and almost useless to reticle range.​
    When you are dealing with small targets, optical disturbances and funky colors all on the same target be aware of the stacking effect you can be dealing with. If you find you're sailing over a target and that target isn't crystal clear assume you've overestimated the target size. Make sure you attend to identify if a target has an angle that might impact our read, a circle should look circular, squares as squares, use other known objects nearby if you can; use the largest item you can. Hint bomb.

    Expect to see 3-4 smaller PRS sized targets on the UKD Reticle ranging stage, presenting the challenges above. No, we're not going to set up E- sized targets and yes, you'll miss your range finder. Of course, those that have read this thread may find the clues in the stage brief more helpful than the teams that didn't. Oh, I would write down the size for common-sized items are that you might see on a range, like a 55-gallon barrel container, car tire, a ram from a 500m Silhouette, and a pig from the 300m line and Standard T-post in the ground just past the spade. Hint bomb.

    I hope that the next time someone asks you why you use an FFP with a subtensioned reticle, you answer something like this: It provides an accurate wind-hold, and hold-overs at any magnification, corrections are accurate, and helps me communicate quickly and accurately.


    Top reasons to purchase an FFP, regardless of magnification levels for the PR shooter:​
    1. Accurate/fast wind holds
    2. Flash milling wind budgets (targets angular size)
    3. Accurate//fast holdovers
    4. Accurate//fast corrections
    5. Accurate/clear communication

    Back to the index

    Please think of our sponsors for your next purchase.
    View attachment 7436378
    Will be allowed to use a calculator when doing the reticle ranging calculation??
     

    jrsandiego12

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    Feb 11, 2020
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    Thanks. The Field Tips section mentions a car tire and t-post that are on the range. Since many of us will be arriving at the range the morning of, will there be a chance to see or measure the tire or post before the start? I know there is a wide variance in tire sizes between my little sedan and 4x4 truck. :)
     

    Diver160651

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    Thanks. The Field Tips section mentions a car tire and t-post that are on the range. Since many of us will be arriving at the range the morning of, will there be a chance to see or measure the tire or post before the start? I know there is a wide variance in tire sizes between my little sedan and 4x4 truck. :)
    I gave a few items, the things you might find on a standard National 500m Silhouette Range as well as 55 gallon drums and T-posts. Long story short some are just diversions.

    cough, I would absolutely take the time to either look up or measure the silhouettes. Although I am not a complete dick - smart teams will have access during the stage to measure a reference; if the recognise the value in ranging a large item vs a tiny target
     

    Diver160651

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    Special thanks to our Sponsors and thanks to the Hide for over 12,000 views for a single match!!

    Well guys we are almost here!

    The round count and points are below:

    Points Matrix
    Total possible Team points
    288​
    Team Rounds (min)*
    134​
    * Stage 5a has two targets that are unlimited shots. A perfect score is only 13 shots, but count on more.


    Special thanks to our sponsors please consider them for your next purchase.
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    Diver160651

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    Thank you to the sponsors, ROs, and shooters. So glad to have you all on board!

    Thank you, Jim

    Image of me looking thru Adam's rifle as we proof the final loophole stage. The hills of Avenal is a great venue for Feild style shooting!
    Jim - looking thru Adams Scope during the finale Stage proofing.png


    The winning team - Two Hide guys Todd R and Dave C @sfogold
    UKD TEAM FIELD Match Winners_ Maven Optics_Spartan Rifles.png

    More pictures to follow

    Thank you again to our sponsors!!!!

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    jrsandiego12

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    Wow, fun day. Challenging, sometimes frustrating, but a real test of skills. Not many easy points to be had today. The now infamous Avenal UKD match was a great time.

    THANK YOU to Scott and all the ROs for setting up a complicated match. It took a lot of work. Thanks.