new to reloading: Lee deluxe die set, what else do i need in terms of die? (.308)

[jack campbell]

Hi i know a fair bit from research but there are some things im unclear on.

im looking at a lee deluxe set to reload ammunition for a bolt action remmy. (single stage press) im not interested in peoples opinion on the make, im putting a set up on a budget so please no just stating hornady or rcbs are way better, if you have legitimate gripes with them tell me in a concise manner. i doubt ill be getting once fired brass or anything so as far as im aware i don't really need the full sizing die, but will i need a crimping die and a set for case preparation (neck trimming/tuning) any other relevant tips and hints are welcome, this probs seems mundane to all you guys but im still a newbie to the world of center fire, eyes still full ow wonder and all that so this seems like a massive undertaking to me and its very possible im over thinking everything. im trying to get the most accurate round i can on a student budget out of an xcr.

i am still considering trading up for a .300 win mag. its pretty pointless for my purpase i just wanna get my hands on big bangs

thanks for baring with me guys, much appreciated.

 

[Big Z]

I never crimp any rifle rounds. Yes you'll need a way to trim cases. Spend 10 bucks on Lee if you wanna save money. Good luck, and have fun.

 

[jack campbell]

ok, i was confused as on the sales description it says "reduces or eliminates need for case trimming" but i needed to make sure. think ill make my own trimmer, the higher end ones seem very expensive for what they are, i can just sand cast the block or even fold steel and weld strengthening ribs (add aluminum bushings to ensure all surfaces are at 90') then outfit it with a shell plate holder, handle, trimmer and some form of baring with a grub screw to lock depth. is there anything more to it?

 

[damoncali]

I've never needed to crimp, even in semi autos. The good bullets dont even have the cannelure, which means the crimping operation will put a dent in the side of the bullet, which is not good. You will need a full length sizing die. It sounds like your'e trying to do this inexpensively, which is fine. But if you're trying to cut costs by skipping a sizing die, you will be frustrated beyond belief sooner rather than later.

But more importantly, you need a reloading manual that will tell you what you need, what you can skip and why. Lyman's manual is probably the best at explaining the process. Do yourself a favor and read it before you buy anything. You will save money in the long run.

 

[damoncali]

ok, i was confused as on the sales description it says "reduces or eliminates need for case trimming" but i needed to make sure. think ill make my own trimmer, the higher end ones seem very expensive for what they are, i can just sand cast the block or even fold steel and weld strengthening ribs (add aluminum bushings to ensure all surfaces are at 90') then outfit it with a shell plate holder, handle, trimmer and some form of baring with a grub screw to lock depth. is there anything more to it?

Just in case your'e not joking, don't do this.

 

[jack campbell]

one further note, as I live in England things tend to be a tad more expensive anyway a simple set of lee deluxe dies are £35 (which translates to over $50) a full reloading kit as cheep as i can do it is going to cost over £430 ($665) so anywhere i can legitimately cut corners will be appreciated

 

[sentry1]

You're not going to save a whole lot of money by not getting a FL die. If you buy a deluxe set, you're only paying an extra $20ish for the FL die, and it'll come in handy at some point.

Also, you probably won't need the crimp die for a bolt action. I've only ever used a crimp die for AR ammo loaded with pulled bullets that were slightly undersized.

Also, I would suggest spending a wee bit extra on a Hornady floating stem seating die. Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Reloading :: Metallic Reloading :: Dies & Die Accessories :: Rifle Reloading Dies :: 30 TC :: 30 Cal (.308) Seating Die 3.7" 1 Each
It's $23, and will make it much easier to seat bullets properly, especially if they're flat base.

Surf the For Sale section, and get some used gear at a discount, it worked out well for me. Keep an eye on sales and coupons available from various online retailers.

Make sure to balance frugality against quality. I'm a Scrooge McDuck when it comes to spending money, but on occasion, spending a little extra repays you with ongoing convenience.

 

[JGorski]

The Lee die will work fine, though Lee makes their dies so you'll have minimum headspace, so from from time to time you might run into a sized case that fits a bit on the tight side, other than that, just because Lee sells a crimp die, you dont need a crimp die. Last I heard, there are no 308s that are made for tubular magazines, not in Remingtons anyways.

 

[JGorski]

Oh, you're wanting the Lee collet die? Just get the regular Lee dies and youll be doing fine.

 

[jack campbell]

thanks, good advice i thought that as i was only using the ammo in one gun and it was bolt action i would only need a neck sizing die and that full sizing dies were only useful for factory resetting brass or semi autos. i get that if im going to start buying once fires i will need a full sizing die but i thought one was included with a neck sizing die in the lee deluxe.

 

[QuickNDirty]

thanks, good advice i thought that as i was only using the ammo in one gun and it was bolt action i would only need a neck sizing die and that full sizing dies were only useful for factory resetting brass or semi autos. i get that if im going to start buying once fires i will need a full sizing die but i thought one was included with a neck sizing die in the lee deluxe.

I thought that, too. I'm also new to reloading (I loaded my first 25 rounds less than 200 hours ago -- 35 more since then). The FL sizer is fun to use and produces cases that effortlessly chamber in my rifle from stuff that used to not chamber at all. It's amazing, really. Just a couple of sprays from Hornady One Shot and run it through the die and BOOM, like new!

The trouble you'll run into eventually is that some of your rounds will fit your chamber, and some wont. You'll have to take care to only reload cases that will fit into your chamber after you load them, and once you sort out the non-fitters, guess where they go? The useless pile. Yet another pile of brass.

The 3 die deluxe set comes with FL sizer, collet neck sizer, and bullet seater (also shellholder and powder scoop). The 4 die set comes with the same stuff and the factory crimp die.

The FL sizer is the smallest die in the bunch, and the neck sizer is the biggest one. I haven't figured out how to use it right, yet. The neck tension is a lot less than case necks sized with the FL sizer die.

You definitely need a trimmer. I full length sized some CBC brass for a 308 and they came out to 2.018" which is 3/1000ths over the maximum length. That was after one firing and one resizing! Trimming was mandatory at that point. Now they're all about 2.005" +/- 2/1000ths with a lee case trimmer chucked in a hand drill.

Whatever trimmer you go with, don't forget the case length gauge which is a rod that screws into the trimmer to limit the depth at which you can trim a case.

Cleaning out primer pockets is easy to do, too, and they make tools for it, but appropriately sized security bits/flat head screwdrivers/pin punches/etc work well enough it seems.

 

[jack campbell]

ok, thanks thats good to know

 

[jack campbell]

i was just thinking cus i read a forum post saying that crimping improves accuracy, said the same in the product description of the crimp die i think.

 

[jack campbell]

The Lee die will work fine, though Lee makes their dies so you'll have minimum headspace, so from from time to time you might run into a sized case that fits a bit on the tight side, other than that, just because Lee sells a crimp die, you dont need a crimp die. Last I heard, there are no 308s that are made for tubular magazines, not in Remingtons anyways.

i was just thinking cus i read a forum post saying that crimping improves accuracy, said the same in the product description of the crimp die i think.

 

[jack campbell]

The Lee die will work fine, though Lee makes their dies so you'll have minimum headspace, so from from time to time you might run into a sized case that fits a bit on the tight side, other than that, just because Lee sells a crimp die, you dont need a crimp die. Last I heard, there are no 308s that are made for tubular magazines, not in Remingtons anyways.

i was just thinking cus i read a forum post saying that crimping improves accuracy, said the same in the product description of the crimp die i think.

 

[QuickNDirty]

That depends on the bullets you're going to shoot, and what you're shooting them out of. Don't crimp bullets without a cannelure (doing so damages the bullet).

This is what a bullet with a cannelure looks like:

 

[jack campbell]

Oh, you're wanting the Lee collet die? Just get the regular Lee dies and youll be doing fine.

nah the duluxe 3 die set, but if you'd recomend alwqays full sizing over just neck sizing ill go for something like the rgb dies. but are these the ones you're talikg about? Collet Dies 308w - Lee Precision
im looking at:
Lee Deluxe Rifle 3-Die Set - Lee Precision just to be clear.
or posibly
RGB Dies - Lee Precision

 

[Bruno]

Easy now, you did the old triple post there... Just forget about crimping, your shooting out of a bolt action and have no need to crimp, and it won't make your rounds more accurate.

 

[QuickNDirty]

Here's a great writeup on sizing brass.

Resizing - Case Dimension Changes
by: Germán A. Salazar

 

[wilecoyote]

one further note, as I live in England things tend to be a tad more expensive anyway a simple set of lee deluxe dies are £35 (which translates to over $50) a full reloading kit as cheep as i can do it is going to cost over £430 ($665) so anywhere i can legitimately cut corners will be appreciated

"reduces or eliminate the need of case trimming...improves accuracy... are often only advertising words_ Try first to investigate, via internet, if can be cheaper buy the needed items at your gunstore or ordering them directly from Lee, if Lee will be your brand of choice_ often I have spared some cash this way, even adding VAT & shipping charges_ I add that Lee sell a supply of 2nd choice items, meaning that those items are functionally perfect, with minor flaws on their external finish only,at substantially rebated prices _ I've buyed some , and I don't was disappointed_

 

[JGorski]

This is how non-crimped rounds shoot @200yds. from my 700 308.


Yeah, get that deluxe set. I use Hornadys Custom 308 dies, FL & NS with bushings.

 

[jack campbell]

thanks guys, so crimping is deffinatly out, next step, with in reason what would you guys rely on as your die of choice for affordable accuracy

its 00:30 here, im in my university library revising for an engineering exam on Tuesday a midst tables full of sleeping students, keep me sane guys XD

 

[jack campbell]

those hornady dies are 7/8ths arent they?

 

[Big Z]

Die threads are standard across different manufacturers... I've had the most problem with lee resizing dies, so I tend to opt RCBS or Hornady for the money when I buy a new set. Lee doesn't have a very good warranty either.. that said I do have 3 or 4 sets from them that work fine.

 

[fdkay]

I use Lee die almost exclusively.
I also crimp my bullets, I have had too many back out from recoil. I crimp my match bullets that don't have a cannelure all the time.
You will need a full length sizing die.
You won't need to use it often, but every 4th or 5th reload, you MAY need to full length size.

Lee case trimmer works just fine, they are cheap and work well. Make sure you get a chamfer tool also to clean up the case mouth after trimming.

 

[jack campbell]

well most guys in my club reload so the bullet is seated so far forward it wont fit in the magazine so load singularly, so odds are they will get me doing that. one shot at a time means no need to bother worrying about recoil.

 

[M1Amen]

Lee dies are and presses have been excellent in my experience, but you might find the ancillary components of the deluxe kit to be a bit lacking. Lee is definitely for the frugal/budget minded. I am not a fan of the powder drop thing that they use or the undersized balance that comes with the set.

If I were getting into reloading today, knowing all the things I didn't know when I bought my first Lee Deluxe kit (yes, I started with the exact same kit you are looking at), then I would purchase components separately. It will be more expensive, but you will not have to replace things that came with the kit.

Knowing what I know now, I would get the Lee Classic cast press without the quick change feature. Then some Lee dies. Then get a good quality balance and a Wilson case trimmer and a Lee powder funnel. You can use the Lee press' priming feature, but I find it lacking. An RCBS hand priming tool or similar will serve you much better. Then a Lee chamfer/deburr tool. Also pick up a Lyman or RCBS flash hole uniformer and a primer pocket uniformer, and a set of electronic digital calipers.

 

[QuickNDirty]

M1Amen: What didn't you like about the quick change bushings, and what about the locking rings?

I got some of the quick change bushings with a built in compression ring (or whatever you call them) and have had good luck with them so far. I don't use the little button thing on the press like it's supposed to be used, but everything locks up great as far as I can tell. Maybe when I start processing 100+ rounds at a time the quick change bushings won't matter much, but for the 5 here, 10 there that I do at the moment, it's convenient.


Here's an example of what a noob can do with the deluxe 3 die set in a breech lock classic cast press after lurking around snipershide for a while.

Holes inside circle were fired from 20" barrel 1/10 twist .308 win somewhere between 650 and 700 yards (15cm target, between .23 and .25 mil) --
Powder: VV-N140 @ 38.1 grains
Bullet: 180 grain Sierra Game King
Case: Winchester
Primer: CCI #200
COAL: 2.805"
CBTO: 2.223"

 

[jack campbell]

I don't get how one shot at a time eliminates the need to worry about recoil. Anytime your not squared up your shots may move as they exit, keeping your glass on target is a good idea too.


yea, i was refering to any damage recoil might do to the shot as mentioned earlyer