padom

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    I got a new Bartlein RimX barrel coming from Mike @ Manzella Precision for full review and testing. Ill be putting it through its paces with a bunch of SK, CenterX, Match Extra, R50 and more at 50yd, 100yd and 300yd just like I did during my full RimX review.

    For those of you that dont know, Mike did all the barrel work at AI for years then at TS Customs before running his own shop full time. Mike does all his barrel work on his Doosan CNC just like he did at AI/Win Tactical and TS Customs.. Frank has a video around here somewhere when he was at Win Tactical of Mike cutting AI barrels...

    Looking forward to testing. Stay tuned..


     

    jbell

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    I got a new Bartlein RimX barrel coming from Mike @ Manzella Precision for full review and testing. Ill be putting it through its paces with a bunch of SK, CenterX, Match Extra, R50 and more at 50yd, 100yd and 300yd just like I did during my full RimX review.

    For those of you that dont know, Mike did all the barrel work at AI for years then at TS Customs before running his own shop full time. Mike does all his barrel work on his Doosan CNC just like he did at AI/Win Tactical and TS Customs.. Frank has a video around here somewhere when he was at Win Tactical of Mike cutting AI barrels...

    Looking forward to testing. Stay tuned..



    I'm sure you will disclose in the review but what chamber, and length?
     
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    padom

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    I'm sure you will disclose in the review but what chamber, and length?

    It will have my chamber just like all the review barrels I tested so we have an apples to apples comparison to that data and 20" just like all my review barrels as well. Same M24 contour also
     
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    jbell

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    It will have my chamber just like all the review barrels I tested so we have an apples to apples comparison to that data and 20" just like all my review barrels as well. Same M24 contour also
    Cool, I was hoping
     
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    Hattrick

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    Finally got it put together 26” Bartlin heavy palm spun up by keystone. First time to the range after I got it close to being shot in. I ran 4 5 shot groups with center X. I think it will shoot, kinda wish I did 1 more group for a submission for 6-5. Didn’t have anything to measure it with but it looks tight enough to me. Should be fun
     

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    Boxerglocker

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    Any info on RIM X action torque specs to J Allen chassis? I read 45 lbs or 65lbs?
    I always run 65 inch lbs unless the chassis manufacturer recommends lower. Other reasons are its easy and consistent having a 65 in/lbs torque limiter in my kit and using a tuner I don't want to induce different harmonics by changing torque settings.
     

    littlesister

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    I always run 65 inch lbs unless the chassis manufacturer recommends lower. Other reasons are its easy and consistent having a 65 in/lbs torque limiter in my kit and using a tuner I don't want to induce different harmonics by changing torque settings.
    A few thoughts on action torque. 65 in/lbs seems excessive for a remfire action. If your action to stock fit is not perfect it can put stress on the action and screws. Foundation recommends 55. I played with torque settings and found no reason to go past 50. Custom remfire actions seldom torque past 40. MY turbo is set at 38. A lot of stock/chassis builders advertise no bedding required, but this is not always true. I have torqued actions down to the point that you could feel friction on bolt movement. Problem being a high spot on the stock between action screws. Something to be aware of when using high torque settings.
     

    Boxerglocker

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    A few thoughts on action torque. 65 in/lbs seems excessive for a remfire action. If your action to stock fit is not perfect it can put stress on the action and screws. Foundation recommends 55. I played with torque settings and found no reason to go past 50. Custom remfire actions seldom torque past 40. MY turbo is set at 38. A lot of stock/chassis builders advertise no bedding required, but this is not always true. I have torqued actions down to the point that you could feel friction on bolt movement. Problem being a high spot on the stock between action screws. Something to be aware of when using high torque settings.
    I personally go first with whats recommended by the manufacturer and would not base torque requirements on the application of whether rimfire or otherwise. The purpose is to secure the action to the stock/chassis and engineering determines those torques are based on thread sizes and application. If you were to look at most open resource recommended torque charts on the internet. 1/4-28 Fine thread, ASTM A574 cap screws supplied by most manufacturers have a recommended minimum torque of 65 inch pounds (5.4 foot pounds), in order to acheive a clamp force of about 2000 pounds. The same screws in the same application are actually rated to a max clamping force of 4000 pounds torqued to 144-192 inch pound (12-16 foot pounds) depending on the whether dry or dry/wet lubed. That said, I'm not calling whatever you wish to do wrong. I'm just stating the specific reasons, why I do me.
     
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    padom

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    I personally go first with whats recommended by the manufacturer and would not base torque requirements on the application of whether rimfire or otherwise. The purpose is to secure the action to the stock/chassis and engineering determines those torques are based on thread sizes and application. If you were to look at most open resource recommended torque charts on the internet. 1/4-28 Fine thread, ASTM A574 cap screws supplied by most manufacturers have a recommended minimum torque of 65 inch pounds (5.4 foot pounds), in order to acheive a clamp force of about 2000 pounds. The same screws in the same application are actually rated to a max clamping force of 4000 pounds torqued to 144-192 inch pound (12-16 foot pounds) depending on the whether dry or dry/wet lubed. That said, I'm not calling whatever you wish to do wrong. I'm just stating the specific reasons, why I do me.


    I've used all kinds of recommended torque specs on 22lr rifles before vudoo and rimx came about...

    I tested different vudoo and rimx torque settings in my XLR chassis and found zero accuracy or consistency differences across many barrels and types of ammo....they all Shot amazing groups from 50 - 400yd....

    I haven't torqued my chassis actions screws because of these findings in years....t handle hand tighten and go shoot
     

    littlesister

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    I've used all kinds of recommended torque specs on 22lr rifles before vudoo and rimx came about...

    I tested different vudoo and rimx torque settings in my XLR chassis and found zero accuracy or consistency differences across many barrels and types of ammo....they all Shot amazing groups from 50 - 400yd....

    I haven't torqued my chassis actions screws because of these findings in years....t handle hand tighten and go shoot
    I have been shooting for over 60 yrs. Decided to buy a torque wrench 2yrs ago to see if if consistent torque settings could really make a difference in accuracy. My findings have been much like yours. Action screw torque effects vertical point of aim. Very little if any on group size.
     
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    4O6shootist

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    I got a new Bartlein RimX barrel coming from Mike @ Manzella Precision for full review and testing. Ill be putting it through its paces with a bunch of SK, CenterX, Match Extra, R50 and more at 50yd, 100yd and 300yd just like I did during my full RimX review.

    For those of you that dont know, Mike did all the barrel work at AI for years then at TS Customs before running his own shop full time. Mike does all his barrel work on his Doosan CNC just like he did at AI/Win Tactical and TS Customs.. Frank has a video around here somewhere when he was at Win Tactical of Mike cutting AI barrels...

    Looking forward to testing. Stay tuned..



    I know Mike well, he does excellent work. When Mike was at AI and TS, he chambered on a TL1. His Doosan setup......blows the doors off TL1 99% systems smith's are using. Mike's chambered a handful of barrels for me, and his methods/final product is phenomenal.
     
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    padom

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    I was mistaken, just confirmed with Mike, tl1 at AI, Doosan at Ts. Wasn't my intention to spread any misinformation.

    Mike actually chambered on a Doosan at AI as well he told me...which is what he was chamberin the barrel on when Frank was at AI and made this video....maybe he used a TL1 there before he convinced them to buy the Doosan.... the Doosan he used at AI was just a bigger model than what he used at TS and has in his shop currently


     

    orkan

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    The real thing here: No one should care. The result is what we are all paying for. A dude can plug a chamber in with a steam powered belt driven lathe... as long as it shoots, I'm happy. There are a LOT of smiths ramming chambers in on manual lathes that shoot crazy well.

    Once upon a time, you could count the good smiths in the country on one hand. Now, with the availability of knowledge and equipment... there are more than ever, and more popping up every other week.

    Want to know how to choose a smith? Here's how: You find one you get along with very well, and that cares as much as you want them to care. If you are using a smith, and they demonstrate they don't care... you better go down the road, and I mean quick like.
     

    SpotterUp

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    Bison Tactical prefits are chambered by Modacam Custom Rifles. It's probably the best prefit out there.

    Unfortunately, my experience with Modacam chambering my barrel was not positive.

    I purchased my RimX .22 LR through Bison early this year, along with an 18" MTU pre-fit. The pre-fit was chambered by Modacam.

    Early on, I was experiencing some ejection issues, and this prompted me to take a closer look at some things (including my chamber). Using my borescope, I immediately noticed very nasty gouging around the circumference of the throat area. This was in stark contrast to the bore, which was nothing short of breathtaking (this is my first Benchmark, and their product is simply amazing; the surfaces are extremely smooth, and the rifling impossibly crisp, and it's really a thing of beauty overall).

    I called Fred at Bison (a very nice guy), he got me in touch with Jonathan at Modacam (also a very nice guy - this isn't personal), and, after seeing my borescope video, Jonathan acknowledged the issue and sent me a shipping label for the barrel. After receiving the barrel, he asked me if I'd mind losing a half-inch of barrel as he'd have to set it back to fix things completely. I wasn't thrilled, but I said ok (I'm not out to be difficult). Jonathan was very polite through all of this and it did seem like he really wanted to make things right (I need to give credit where it's due).

    When I received the barrel back, though, I was beyond disappointed as soon as I unboxed it.

    The flawless matte finish of the exterior had been all banged up. There are lots of little divots/grooves in it, some deep enough to can catch my nail in. There are chatter marks/scoring running length-wise in several spots, too. None of these are symmetrical or seem purposeful, but instead seem to be the result of rough, careless handling.

    The shank looks terrible, with an uneven (almost wavy) surface and a groove around its circumference where it looks like a cut was started in the wrong place or something. The factory markings on the barrel are now abbreviated due to the half-inch being cut off (something I didn't think of when I agreed to shortening it).

    The new chamber still has a small problem area in the throat, but it's much better than it was originally. It now has several lateral scratches, too, that are unsightly, but I can't see them causing any issues.

    I'm really surprised Jonathan was happy with the barrel's condition and would send it back to a customer this way.

    Having no faith in Modacam's work, and not wanting to miss upcoming matches, I coated the barrel in Aluma-hyde (to cover the mars), installed the barrel to the action (putting the ugly shank work out of sight), and moved on. I don't at all feel that I got what I paid for, and that beautiful Benchmark barrel certainly didn't receive the treatment it deserved.

    I do well at matches, so the barrel shoots good enough. I'll just have to live with it or come up with an additional $800 for a new Benchmark chambered by someone else. However, I thought I might be able to save somebody some heartache by sharing my experience.
     
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    littlepod

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    Unfortunately, my experience with Modacam chambering my barrel was not positive.

    I purchased my RimX .22 LR through Bison early this year, along with an 18" MTU pre-fit. The pre-fit was chambered by Modacam.

    Early on, I was experiencing some ejection issues, and this prompted me to take a closer look at some things (including my chamber). Using my borescope, I immediately noticed very nasty gouging around the circumference of the throat area. This was in stark contrast to the bore, which was nothing short of breathtaking (this is my first Benchmark, and their product is simply amazing; the surfaces are extremely smooth, and the rifling impossibly crisp, and it's really a thing of beauty overall).

    I called Fred at Bison (a very nice guy), he got me in touch with Jonathan at Modacam (also a very nice guy - this isn't personal), and, after seeing my borescope video, Jonathan acknowledged the issue and sent me a shipping label for the barrel. After receiving the barrel, he asked me if I'd mind losing a half-inch of barrel as he'd have to set it back to fix things completely. I wasn't thrilled, but I said ok (I'm not out to be difficult). Jonathan was very polite through all of this and it did seem like he really wanted to make things right (I need to give credit where it's due).

    When I received the barrel back, though, I was beyond disappointed as soon as I unboxed it.

    The flawless matte finish of the exterior had been all banged up. There are lots of little divots/grooves in it, some deep enough to can catch my nail in. There are chatter marks/scoring running length-wise in several spots, too. None of these are symmetrical or seem purposeful, but instead seem to be the result of rough, careless handling.

    The shank looks terrible, with an uneven (almost wavy) surface and a groove around its circumference where it looks like a cut was started in the wrong place or something. The factory markings on the barrel are now abbreviated due to the half-inch being cut off (something I didn't think of when I agreed to shortening it).

    The new chamber still has a small problem area in the throat, but it's much better than it was originally. It now has several lateral scratches, too, that are unsightly, but I can't see them causing any issues.

    I'm really surprised Jonathan was happy with the barrel's condition and would send it back to a customer this way.

    Having no faith in Modacam's work, and not wanting to miss upcoming matches, I coated the barrel in Aluma-hyde (to cover the mars), installed the barrel to the action (putting the ugly shank work out of sight), and moved on. I don't at all feel that I got what I paid for, and that beautiful Benchmark barrel certainly didn't receive the treatment it deserved.

    I do well at matches, so the barrel shoots good enough. I'll just have to live with it or come up with an additional $800 for a new Benchmark chambered by someone else. However, I thought I might be able to save somebody some heartache by sharing my experience.

    That's a bummer. My friend gets his back today, and my other friend and I have Vudoos being worked on right now. All with Kriegers. We'll report back how it turns out...
     

    4O6shootist

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    @SpotterUp, man that's poor customer service from some supposed "nice guys", proper treatment would been a new quality finish cut barrel at your original orders specs. Have you informed Bison of the crap product sent back to you? If so, I'm quite surprised they continue to use them, multiple stories like this will cost them a lot of business in the future. Maybe they just don't care as their relationship with modacam presents largest profit, unfortunately a lot of this drives our industry. Perhaps this was a once in a blue moon event, but the fact you received junk, and were returned junk again after supposed remedies is an absolutely subpar product.
     

    SpotterUp

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    @SpotterUp, man that's poor customer service from some supposed "nice guys", proper treatment would been a new quality finish cut barrel at your original orders specs. Have you informed Bison of the crap product sent back to you? If so, I'm quite surprised they continue to use them, multiple stories like this will cost them a lot of business in the future. Maybe they just don't care as their relationship with modacam presents largest profit, unfortunately a lot of this drives our industry. Perhaps this was a once in a blue moon event, but the fact you received junk, and were returned junk again after supposed remedies is an absolutely subpar product.

    Yeah, you're right - I probably should have contacted Bison again to let Fred know what my final result was. I just had other things going on and it was easier for me just to let it go (I didn't have faith I was going to get a good final product anyway). I'm with you - I believe I deserve a new barrel with a nice chamber, but since Fred works with Modacam, I'm didn't think he wasn't going to pay for a different gunsmith to do the chamber work (that's if he agreed to replace my barrel, and I never had that conversation with him).
     

    littlepod

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    I have had issues with this before where reamers blew out and my chamber had a burr that had to be recut. The problem is these smiths don't get direct supply of barrels. So basically if a mistake happens, there's two options... try to recut your barrel and make it work. Wait the backorder for a barrel to come in. Benchmark is about 9 months, and Krieger is currently at 12-14 months.

    In my case, with my centerfire build, I had it setback 1" as well and there were still some issues (this is through a different smith), but I chose that over waiting for another barrel to show up a year later.
     

    SpotterUp

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    I have had issues with this before where reamers blew out and my chamber had a burr that had to be recut. The problem is these smiths don't get direct supply of barrels. So basically if a mistake happens, there's two options... try to recut your barrel and make it work. Wait the backorder for a barrel to come in. Benchmark is about 9 months, and Krieger is currently at 12-14 months.

    In my case, with my centerfire build, I had it setback 1" as well and there were still some issues (this is through a different smith), but I chose that over waiting for another barrel to show up a year later.

    Sadly, I just don't think people put the same amount of effort and care into jobs they do for other people as they put into things they do for themselves. You're very lucky if you find a gunsmith that's detail-oriented and treats your stuff like his own.
     

    littlepod

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    Sadly, I just don't think people put the same amount of effort and care into jobs they do for other people as they put into things they do for themselves. You're very lucky if you find a gunsmith that's detail-oriented and treats your stuff like his own.
    How long ago was this work done?
     

    Fred @ Bison Tactical

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    Sadly, I just don't think people put the same amount of effort and care into jobs they do for other people as they put into things they do for themselves. You're very lucky if you find a gunsmith that's detail-oriented and treats your stuff like his own.
    Please reach out to me via email with your order info so I can get this addressed. I just got pinged on this thread, so wasn't aware this was an issue. I am sure we can get this resolved for you.
     

    Hegre

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    When you have an issue and you decide to let it slide, that is fine. However, I have a real hard time with not contacting the seller to make it right, yet taking the time to dump on them online. I sell some very high end and extremely reliable tech, but once in a while there is a failure. It happens, and I expect my customers to inform me ASAP and I will do my best to make it right.
     

    Shifty6BR

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    Please reach out to me via email with your order info so I can get this addressed. I just got pinged on this thread, so wasn't aware this was an issue. I am sure we can get this resolved for you.
    At the risk of sounding like a smartass and I apologize if I do.....this.... contacting the vendor with any grievances is something I would have done first thing.
     
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    SpotterUp

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    When you have an issue and you decide to let it slide, that is fine. However, I have a real hard time with not contacting the seller to make it right, yet taking the time to dump on them online.

    I don't feel that I "dumped on" Fred or Bison Tactical at all. I happened across a post that read "Bison Tactical prefits are chambered by Modacam Custom Rifles. It's probably the best prefit out there". My own personal experience with Modacam's work didn't square with this, so I shared that experience in hopes of saving somebody else some trouble (and I'll stick by it).

    I sell some very high end and extremely reliable tech, but once in a while there is a failure. It happens, and I expect my customers to inform me ASAP and I will do my best to make it right.

    I did "contact the seller to make it right". Fred (the seller) got me in touch directly with Modacam, they got the barrel a second time, and took a shot at fixing things. Keep in mind, I had already spent a considerable amount of time on phone and email communication about this.

    After getting the barrel the second time, I admit I gave up. I guess you're saying I shouldn't have, and maybe you're right.
     
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    SpotterUp

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    At the risk of sounding like a smartass and I apologize if I do.....this.... contacting the vendor with any grievances is something I would have done first thing.

    As I mention in the post above, I did just that. The result was a second go-round with Modacam.

    For those of you who think I handled this wrong - It's possible that I did (I'm far from perfect). I didn't feel like chasing things any longer. though, or missing more matches. I also didn't believe Modacam would be able to provide a product that I'd be happy with (based on my experiences).

    Anyway, I appreciate your opinions.
     
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    jelrod1

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    There are a lot of things at play here. Some within my control, and some not being this is not a direct customer.

    That said I’m sorry you had issue and given the opportunity I’m sure between me and/or Fred things can be resolved. I 100 percent stand behind anything that comes out of this shop. What I’m not going to do is go through a forum to do it. It’s not professional and it’s not me.

    We have a long standing reputation of customer service that’s above and beyond. I’m very proud of that and that interaction with customers is important to me. We are humans though and things happen. It’s the nature of any business. If you haven’t done so please contact one of us to get this resolved.
     

    SpotterUp

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    There are a lot of things at play here. Some within my control, and some not being this is not a direct customer.

    That said I’m sorry you had issue and given the opportunity I’m sure between me and/or Fred things can be resolved. I 100 percent stand behind anything that comes out of this shop. What I’m not going to do is go through a forum to do it. It’s not professional and it’s not me.

    We have a long standing reputation of customer service that’s above and beyond. I’m very proud of that and that interaction with customers is important to me. We are humans though and things happen. It’s the nature of any business. If you haven’t done so please contact one of us to get this resolved.

    HI Jonathan - thank you for contacting me. I just contacted Fred.

    I'm glad you're proud of your work, and that you stand behind it. It is possible that my barrel is an exception - I can only go by (and share) my own experience with the product I have in front of me.

    Anyway, enough of this post - it's gone farther than I intended and (you're right) this isn't something we should continue here.
     
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    rick137

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    Several weeks ago I parsed this thread and saw there were 200 yd matches being conducted with Vudoo single shots. Impressive results. Has anyone been able to keep 20 or 25 shots within a 1 MOA circle at 200 yd with best edge scoring?
     

    Boxerglocker

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    I'm not commenting on the timeline of events in Spotterup's situation. I definitely have to say it's the complete opposite of my dealing with @jelrod1. Jonathan was nothing but first class in every aspect of building my RimX Krieger with EC Tuner. Email, phone calls and even text messages for status and updates he is a busy guy but always took the time to get back to me. It's a matter not if but when I have him build me another barrel or do complete build. Amazing work and customer service.

    Mitchell
     

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    Shayne Ward

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    To say my Vudoo from Modacam is amazing would be a understatement. The thing is a absolute Hammer and sub MOA to 400yds. He is building my second Vudoo at the moment and I have no doubts it will be even better than the first one. I have shot a lot of custom .22s and there is ZERO comparison. Those on here that have seen my rifle know exactly what I am talking about. In a World full of Mediocre rimfires there is a reason I send rifles from Texas to North Carolina….
     

    Shayne Ward

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    One other thing I would like to add is this..
    The Top positional rimfire shooter in the World is Chris Simmons.
    2x NRL X National Champ and 2021 PRS National Finale Winner.
    I’ll give you 1 guess on who spins his barrels.
    I’m sorry you had a bad experience, but Jonathan has never been anything short of professional in my experience. Always going above and beyond. I’m sure he will make this right.
     

    flatland1

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    Western Kansas
    I'm glad to see some of Jonathan's other customers speaking up to relate their positive experiences with his Modacam Rifles company. I sent Jonathan a couple of CMP 40X/XB actions several years ago - it was either late 2016 or early 2017 - to have them converted into repeaters to use V22 mags, and had nothing but positive things to say about his work. I did the bbl work on both actions after they came back from his shop; he watched the tracking and called me the day the 1st one was delivered to explain what I should look for while finishing the tuning of the extractor & pusher, since neither action I sent had a bbl installed, he was very limited in what he could do in regards to those parts. I recall that he spent over 30 min on his dime talking me through removing those parts from the bolt and what to do to make them work well in the repeater mode in these formally single shot actions. I've spoken with him several times over the past few years since then, and it's always been a positive experience. I'd really like to meet him in person and do some shooting with some of our 22RF repeaters - as would a couple of my shooting buddies out here in Kansas who've also sent him their 40X actions for the conversion & barrel work. It's not hard to understand why Mike Bush was pleased to send Jonathan the drawings so that he could begin doing the conversion jobs...

    Not trying to dump on SpotterUp, and sorry he had the bad experience with his Vudoo. Just wanted to relate my experience with someone I consider to be a great guy, fine machinist, and an excellent gunsmith.
     

    benfur

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Nov 19, 2007
    169
    14
    anywhere USA
    Bad pic but my rim x is done. Ill take it to the range next week then I'll see how she shoots
     

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